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  • Faust
    kitsch killer
    • Sep 2006
    • 37852

    What do you think of today's retail prices?



    I just read an article in the Economist about how the $ will continue to fall. Their 1-year (IIRC) target was $1.36 per 1Euro. With most luxury goods made or finished in Europe and designer showrooms mostly dealing in Euro, the US retail prices will continue to rise. In the past two-three years, retail prices in the US rose by about 30-40%. Think about it, today's sale prices are yesterday's full prices. Of course there are other factors in place, such as inflation and rising cost of materials and labor (and designer greed).



    And yet, I see little or no slowing down of consumer spending. Today I find less on the sales rack at Barneys than ever before. I attribute part of it to buying on credit. I think there has been a cultural shift of mentality where now people have a sense of entitlement, and "we-only-live-once" mentality, that is fueled by easy credit. Another part is of course increase of wealth. I would love to see the figures about who buys designer clothes. I am sure a large percent of it is still wealthy people. While people like many of us here who appreciate design and quality buy items from more creative designers, I would think that a large % of those who shop in luxury stores are the rich, who are pretty much immune to prices. The third part might be just an increase in accessibility and rapid spread of information (which we are all a part of here [Y] ). Informatin about new designers and collections spreads faster, and shopping on the internet has allowed those on the periphery (pardon my french) easy access to much of the same goods that people in big cities get.



    Personally, I find the increase in prices insulting, not only to my wallet but to my intellect and sense of self-respect. I am not one of those people who envy wealthy for their money. Of course I get offended sometimes at the inequity of this world when I hear about some outlandish spending habits, but that's another story. Overall, I think people are free to spend their money however they want. Yet, I also think that there is a limit to price tags. I know we are in the world of the market forces and designers will charge what the market will bear. I just refuse to be a part of that market.



    What do you guys think? I am sure many of you have been thinking about this.



    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

    StyleZeitgeist Magazine
  • casem
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2006
    • 2590

    #2
    Re: What do you think of today's retail prices?

    Prices are ridiculous, I was just thinking how even at 40% and 50% off everything is still so damn expensive! I'm not sure why people are spending more than ever given the ridiculous prices, but I'm sure as you said, easy credit and a sense of entitlement are big factors. I'm finally starting to feel like my wardrobe is more or less complete, so I think in coming seasons I will only buy a couple standout pieces, because it is just way too expensive to reinvent your wardrobe every season. But I think that's how a lot of us here shop and deal with the crazy prices, by buying a few great pieces each season and building on what we have with things that will last and aren't disposible.
    It may be wishful thinking, but I can see prices beginning to fall before too long due to the ever increasing availability of good design at low prices and oversaturation of the market. This has already happened a bit with premium denim, where some premium companies have lowered there prices while already low priced companies are making better products. And is it just me, or have Dior and Jil Sander prices actually dropped (along with quality some may argue)?
    music

    Comment

    • JBull
      Junior Member
      • Sep 2006
      • 3

      #3
      Re: What do you think of today's retail prices?

      I think that at least two mechanisms are at work. First, fashion is running through
      the same product live cycle as – just as examples – wine or watches. On a cursory view, the similarities are striking. This of course is not an explanation, just an observation. And second, I do not think that increasing wealth fuels rising demand for expensive fashion, boosting prices. Quit the contrary. It has become extremely expensive to buy and sustain luxury items like significantly sized real estate, an airplane, or just spare time (not talking about financing offspring). So why not to spend "excess" money on relatively small budget luxury items? Actually, the relative price of fashion within the variety of luxury products has declined, hence we observe an increase in demand.

      Comment

      • Servo2000
        Senior Member
        • Oct 2006
        • 2183

        #4
        Re: What do you think of today's retail prices?



        What's even more difficult is for people like me, who are only just now entering into this "realm" of clothing, is being forced to pay exorbitant prices for designer "basics." I'm completely priced out of, even on sale most of the time, standout pieces since I'm often only able to afford, perhaps, a basic shirt or two per season.



        At this rate, I'll be able to finally buy some of said "outstanding pieces" by about 2011. Boy, am I ever excited.

        WTB: Rick Owens Padded MA-1 Bomber XS (LIMO / MOUNTAIN)

        Comment

        • onemancult
          Member
          • Dec 2006
          • 81

          #5
          Re: What do you think of today's retail prices?



          I am pretty much in the same boat as Servo.

          As a young trust fund-less male putting himself through school, I think that building a decent personal fashion collection of worthwhile designers is more painstaking and expensive than I'd like it to be.

          Whether it is basics or the most awe-inspiring must-have signature piece, there are very few items that I can afford to own, or even bring myself to stretch for. Do I save money for three months to buy a that cardigan or do I buy a similarlow to mid-priced piece, pay the bills, and take my girlfriend out to dinner a few times?

          I wouldn't say that I am insulted by rising prices so much so as I am insulted by a culture/market that still seems to be neglectful of young
          adult males with a refined taste.



          I have this point I always argue, that it is far easier for a woman to find a well-designed garment made from quality fabric with good construction at a manageable price than it is for a man. In all aspects of menswear, good design + fabric + construction seems to automatically equal aspirational pricepoint. That's what bothers me more.

          Comment

          • Faust
            kitsch killer
            • Sep 2006
            • 37852

            #6
            Re: What do you think of today's retail prices?

            [quote user="onemancult"]

            I am pretty much in the same boat as Servo.

            As a young trust fund-less male putting himself through school, I think that building a decent personal fashion collection of worthwhile designers is more painstaking and expensive than I'd like it to be.

            Whether it is basics or the most awe-inspiring must-have signature piece, there are very few items that I can afford to own, or even bring myself to stretch for. Do I save money for three months to buy a that cardigan or do I buy a similarlow to mid-priced piece, pay the bills, and take my girlfriend out to dinner a few times?

            I wouldn't say that I am insulted by rising prices so much so as I am insulted by a culture/market that still seems to be neglectful of young
            adult males with a refined taste.



            I have this point I always argue, that it is far easier for a woman to find a well-designed garment made from quality fabric with good construction at a manageable price than it is for a man. In all aspects of menswear, good design + fabric + construction seems to automatically equal aspirational pricepoint. That's what bothers me more.



            [/quote]



            You forgot to add "in the US." A guy can dress well in Europe on a low budget. In America the perception that a sloppy ape makes a true man is still prevalent.



            I was in the same boat as some of you here. The time will come. And when it comes, it will be doubly better for you because earning what you spend is a deeply satisfying experience.



            Welcome to SZ, onemancult.

            Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

            StyleZeitgeist Magazine

            Comment

            • onemancult
              Member
              • Dec 2006
              • 81

              #7
              Re: What do you think of today's retail prices?



              touché , Faust.
              it is definitely a uniquely American problem- furthercompounded by
              a terrible exchange rate, as you mentioned in your initial post.

              there's also a deeper issue regarding the care and attention paid to womenswear
              vs. menswear in the apparel industry that perhaps i'll bring up for discussion the
              next time i get jealous of my girlfriend's thrifty yet seemingly always fabulous purchases.

              thanks for the kind and encouragingwords.

              Comment

              • darkanimal
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2006
                • 212

                #8
                Re: What do you think of today's retail prices?

                Yes it is crazy, you shop then you realize what you could have bought with all that money. Just like casem, I have reached a point where I believe my wardrobe is already complete for the four seasons. I look at the FW06 Sales thread and it's like I'm reading the Yes or No thread. I have resisted all temptations pre Black Fri sales up to now. I am also a big advocate of independent local designers, through the years I have had clothes made by Fashion students and new talents. By doing that I had saved a whole lot.

                Comment

                • xcoldricex
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2006
                  • 1347

                  #9
                  Re: What do you think of today's retail prices?



                  after spending a lot of time in china, retail prices are kind of a joke for me. if you go to the wholesalers (who are usually willing to sell you a few pieces) you learn the "real value" of things. a well constructed genuine ambercrombie and fitch, dsquared, roxy, etc. (yes i know) winter jacket can be had for under $10 (while the retail prices are $250+). and that's with a middle man between the factory and you - so the garment can't be worth more than $8. of course this is in china, but it puts a perspective on things, at least for me.



                  that said, i buy expensive clothes. one rule i rarely ever break is to never buy at retail. i also have been blessed by the fact that i've picked out my clothing well over the past 8 years that i've been able to at the very least break even and more often than not make money on my old clothing (being into streetwear early on proved to be very helpful financially). now i mostly buy second hand clothing, i don't really see the point in buying these expensive clothes new since they devalue immediately when you take them out of the store (unless the item is extremely rare and demand is high). why second hand clothing? if buy it cheap enough i can sell for what i bought it for, even after wearing it - if i'm lucky i bought it cheap enough that i can even earn a return on it. i guess this all belongs more in the how do you shop thread- but yeah. i don't do retail prices - there's always a way to get it cheaper. if not now, you might have to wait a year or two...



                  i think high school really isn't a time to buy expensive clothing. you can dress well without having to spend a lot of money- and in high school you have enough time to invest in being creative- so i'd make my own clothing if i could go back... or if you're too lazy, you can really construct great outfits out of thrift store pieces (if you complain that there isn't anything where you live, you aren't looking hard enough, or being flexible enough!) and now with the internet there's many things to be had for cheap if you just look. i'm envious of the people that are creators (like nambla for example :)) - plus i think working with limited resources makes you look at things differently - in a good way. anyhow this is all tangential and not really on topic, so forgive me.



                  Comment

                  • onemancult
                    Member
                    • Dec 2006
                    • 81

                    #10
                    Re: What do you think of today's retail prices?

                    [quote user="xcoldricex"]

                    after spending a lot of time in china, retail prices are kind of a joke for me. if you go to the wholesalers (who are usually willing to sell you a few pieces) you learn the "real value" of things. a well constructed genuine ambercrombie and fitch, dsquared, roxy, etc. (yes i know) winter jacket can be had for under $10 (while the retail prices are $250+).



                    i think high school really isn't a time to buy expensive clothing. plus i think working with limited resources makes you look at things differently - in a good way.





                    [/quote]



                    that is the reality of nearly all mass-produced consumer goods, no?



                    as for the high school thing, i'm really thankful i went to a private school with a mandatory uniform.
                    no bullshit necessary, just slap on the grey slacks, white shirt, and grey tie. not only did that give
                    me a great perspective on working with limited resources, but it gave me the time to explore things
                    like jewelry-making that i don't think your average mallrat highschooler has time for- not when there
                    are $200 American Eagle winter coats to buy.

                    Comment

                    • xcoldricex
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2006
                      • 1347

                      #11
                      Re: What do you think of today's retail prices?

                      yeah i guess so. but it hits home when you can actually make that transaction yourself (cause we all know the goods we buy cost little to make). and i think we all somewhat still equate quality with price- so when you see quality can be had for such a low price it puts a bit of a spin on things. and you need to post some of your stuff in the DIY forum onemancult

                      Comment

                      • sbw4224
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2006
                        • 571

                        #12
                        Re: What do you think of today's retail prices?



                        Prices definitely are out of control, and I'm with Faust and everyone else when saying I'm definitely offended as a consumer when I see some of the prices that are out there. Faust, you're right about being able to get things that are well constructed and stylish in Europe. I remember when I was living in London I read an article that went to markets and put together looks taken from Dior Homme runway outfits. It was amazing how close they could come to mirroring the looks. Coldrice is right when thrifting for good finds is definitely possible. I don't think I'm alone, however, when saying that I envy your connections in finding amazing clothes for deep discounts, CR.





                        That said, I probably won't be able to afford anything any real designer pieces, such as outerwear, even at 50% off prices for another 2-3 years. I do believe that people are allowed to spend their money as they please, but I think there is something disturbing when people are buying bespoke leather shirts from Carpe Diem for 8k.

                        Comment

                        • minomni
                          Senior Member
                          • Oct 2006
                          • 167

                          #13
                          Re: What do you think of today's retail prices?



                          no question, prices in "designer" fashion are going up. the vast difference between price and production cost is only being exploited further. at this point, i find myself feeling more dismissive than offended, though there is a definite reaction of incredulousness when i see a simple thom browne coat priced at $6500 or of what amounts to a pair of chucks with 'dior homme' stamped on them selling for $450. problem is, someone gladly buys them.

                          Comment

                          • nairb49
                            Senior Member
                            • Dec 2006
                            • 410

                            #14
                            Re: What do you think of today's retail prices?



                            Its definitley a bit of a conundrum. I had dabbled a bit before in the reselling game á la coldrice, but now am finding it much more worthwhile.



                            About the styling in the US, it is also interesting to note that overseas discount retailers caught on e.g. H&M, Uniqlo, Zara and are cleaning up here in North America by offering those styles at lower pricepoints.



                            That said, stores like those are already getting up there in price. A pair of jeans at H&M already costs 70USD or so, and probably just 8 years ago that was higher end pricing. I had previously thought that the "middle class" stores (Gap, etc) were being edged out by stores on the ends of the spectrum (old navy and designer stuff) but it seems as though these overseas retailers are showing the re-emergence of the middle class market.



                            But to get back on topic, I agree with Faust that buying on credit is allowing people to buy at even higher prices, along with a general feeling of lack of savings. People aren't saving like they used to.

                            Comment

                            • laika
                              moderator
                              • Sep 2006
                              • 3787

                              #15
                              Re: What do you think of today's retail prices?



                              Wow, great discussion. Everyone is so smart and thoughtful. [:$]



                              Faust, I think you put things into perspective very nicely. I would add that it's not only insulting, but unethical to charge or spend these sums of money. I'm not talking about saving up for the sales or buying a few pricey pieces every season. But I've noticed (in other places) that there are people who spend thousands on clothes every month, or even every week. [:O] I don't mean to sound preachy--I spend plenty myself--but I think it's important to balance expenditure, both with what you earn and with what you productively contribute to the world. Everyone should have to think about what they spend, even if they have unlimited funds. [sorry for the rant]



                              As for the rising prices: Designer clothing has always been extremely expensive and out of reach for most, so I really can't complain too much that it is now out further out of reach for me. It's not like designer prices have ever been reasonable or justified; and their profit margins have always been quite high. This recent jump in prices basically makes explicit what has always been there. [:(]



                              That said, I really try to put my money towards designers who have "reasonable" standards of pricing. A paper thin Marni t-shirt costs over $300, while a substantial one from Ann Dem or Dries costs about $160. I'll buy the Ann or Dries on sale, but never the Marni.

                              ...I mean the ephemeral, the fugitive, the contingent, the half of art whose other half is the eternal and the immutable.

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