Designer Hype

[Faust]

I was thinking about recent proliferation of designers - the sheer number of designers we hear about has increased dramatically, yet I personally don't see ANY noteworthy creations taking fashion industry by storm. Nothing impressive has come out lately - it's all either commercial cookie cutter shit, or over-conceptual nonsence.

So, I was thinking what to attribute this to. What came out of my analysis is the following reason; the sheer number of magazines recently have increased astronomically. I read somewhere that there are 60 new titles that come out every year. To fill pages and differentitate themselves, they will write about 2-nd tier, 3-rd tier, Nth-tear designers (and artists, and musicians, etc.).

On the other hand there has been proliferation of PR agencies. Any Madison Ave. rich bitch who went to a prestigious high-school can tap into her old network of friends and charge her clients for creating hype. As we have witnessed, beginning in the 90s, that commerical success = right kind of PR, this seems to be the de facto modus operandi (I can't believe I just wrote that, Orwell would kill me) for a lot of designers. It's not about making good clothes, it's about getting in the right magazines.

What do you guys think?

[zamb]

Re: Designer Hype

[quote user="Faust"]

I was thinking about recent proliferation of designers - the sheer number of designers we hear about has increased dramatically, yet I personally don't see ANY noteworthy creations taking fashion industry by storm. Nothing impressive has come out lately - it's all either commercial cookie cutter shit, or over-conceptual nonsence.

So, I was thinking what to attribute this to. What came out of my analysis is the following reason; the sheer number of magazines recently have increased astronomically. I read somewhere that there are 60 new titles that come out every year. To fill pages and differentitate themselves, they will write about 2-nd tier, 3-rd tier, Nth-tear designers (and artists, and musicians, etc.).

On the other hand there has been proliferation of PR agencies. Any Madison Ave. rich bitch who went to a prestigious high-school can tap into her old network of friends and charge her clients for creating hype. As we have witnessed, beginning in the 90s, that commerical success = right kind of PR, this seems to be the de facto modus operandi (I can't believe I just wrote that, Orwell would kill me) for a lot of designers. It's not about making good clothes, it's about getting in the right magazines.

What do you guys think?

[/quote]

promises to be a most fruitful, stimulating and LOOOONNNGGG overdue discussion.

I am at work now, but i will contribute later tonite when i get home.

Talk later,

Zamb

[Faust]

Re: Designer Hype

/\ Exactly what I am hoping for! I am looking forward to people's input.

[Fuuma]

Re: Designer Hype

IWould you say "fashion" is more present or that there really is more of it, hence it being more present? Basically do you think the quantitative (obviously not qualitative) input has gone up?

[Faust]

Re: Designer Hype



[quote user="Fuuma"]IWould you say "fashion" is more present or that there really is more of it, hence it being more present? Basically do you think the quantitative (obviously not qualitative) input has gone up?[/quote]

Exactly. Quantitative input has shot through the roof, paid undue attention by virtue of the number of magazines and PR.

[Honey~Blade]

Re: Designer Hype



I think there's just an overall much bigger interest and market for designer clothes than before. I guess hence is why there's so much publications coming out every year too. However obviously most people don't know what they doing when they're looking for clothes so they turn to the so called "experts" in various magazines. Also big ass fashion houses can afford to pay for alot of advertising and influence article content, therefore strengthening theirclaim as the must buy shit. So there the vicious cycle never ends, and most consumers won't have a clue (I mean if I was to read that when I'm 60, I will grow an extra thumb in a science magazine, I might fall for that. Who knows).

[Chinorlz]

Re: Designer Hype



When I think about "designer" hype the first name that comes to mind is Von Dutch.

My god... they never produced anything actually of value both creatively and in a monetary sense. They started off as a motorcycle brand!

My belief is that the company flooded the media outlets with the label... paying celebs to wear the hats and tees etc. etc. and thus... the masses will buy. The key for quick-buck, short term success is to just put your clothes on every major hot artists/actor out there all at once.

[Casius]

Re: Designer Hype

[quote user="Chinorlz"]

When I think about "designer" hype the first name that comes to mind is Von Dutch.

My god... they never produced anything actually of value both creatively and in a monetary sense. They started off as a motorcycle brand!

My belief is that the company flooded the media outlets with the label... paying celebs to wear the hats and tees etc. etc. and thus... the masses will buy. The key for quick-buck, short term success is to just put your clothes on every major hot artists/actor out there all at once.

[/quote]

And this exact thing explains why at the award shows, celebrities get 10's of thousands of dollars worth of merchandise from companies hoping the star will get seen using thier products. It's a vicious way of marketing, but it works toward the masses. Living in LA, I see some of the worst; most people are so influenced by what is 'hot right now' and what the latest star trend is.

[Running om Empty]

Re: Designer Hype

I almost want to say that this is an effect of globalization and technological advancements having a perceived pejorative on the fashion industry. Although when I think about what style really means, I'm not bothered by the influx.

I would say there are far more ways of getting sub-par information out to the masses than there are sub-par designers trying to peddle their wares.

[zamb]

Re: Designer Hype



Sorry Guys, For the delay in my response....... been busy. but here goes.

i think that the era and the environment that creates great designers is dying/dead. Once fashion used to be a noble profession where people studied under established people (YSL under Dior, Gaultier under Cardin, Margiela under Gaultier etc) nowadays designers are jumping from School and starting thier own Label

it often takes years for a person to develop the technical understanding and Aesthetic vision to be able to really cut clothes properly and give a difinitive perspective. (two things that are critical to be a Good designer) when was the last time we say a designer coming out that worked in one of the Parisan Couture ateliers?

it is not by Chance or Happenstance that the Belgians are the last dominant fashion nation in europe, it happened largely because the environment that creates great designers (or at least good ones, as i believe greatness is an accomplishment over a duration of time, as in a body of work and the public response it recieves) still existed there in the 1980-90's.........this is an artisanal culture and a somewhat domesticated society where the goals are not to neccessarily make the most perofit in the cheapest way possible.

As for NY, It pains me to see what is happening here, Sean John, Roca Wear, Baby Phat, Sarah Jessica Parker, Project Runway, Justin Timberlake etc, It is Absurd!!!!!!!! everyone and thier mothers have clothing lines.

It pains me to see what is happening, when i came here in 2000, NY had an healthy avante Garde Scene (something critical to the progress of fashion) there was Tess Giberson, Mortesa Saifi, Benjamin Cho , Seth Shapiro (american manufacturing) ORFI, asFour, Bruce, Adrover (when he was good, before Pegasus) Mark Kroeker, Patricia Ayres................ and so many that space wont allow me to name.

there were organiations like SoWear, that used to be nuturing to really creative designers (starving Artists) there were a lot more smaller stores that supported young designers, now, stores want you to pay them to carry your collection.........

the Mode now is you have to have a PR company/ Publicist ($10, 000-25,000 per season) and get press, and pray that sale will follow, showroom commisions are higher, so fashion has become a thing for the rich...............

it is unfathomable that a designer as good as i am (not tooting my own horn, just being honest) gets very little support here, or none really .

If i had a ton of money, I am willing to bet that i would be Superstar, cause i could buy my way into the "in" crowd.......

Fashion is Dead all we have left, is the Residue thereof................the Corpse...........

[Faust]

Re: Designer Hype

That's a said picture you painted, zamb. I wish I could say I disagree. I think you are right about the the venerable tradition of apprenticeship is going out the window.

[zamb]

Re: Designer Hype



[quote user="Faust"]That's a said picture you painted, zamb. I wish I could say I disagree. I think you are right about the the venerable tradition of apprenticeship is going out the window.
[/quote]

Well yea, reading it back to myself it is indeed sad,

it is sad that someone like L'ren scott has an easier chance of seeing her line in Barneys than a real designer nowadays.

it is sad that someone would pony up the money to give jessica Simpson a clothing line than they would fund Cloak.

but such is the realities of fashion Nowadays.

Everyday I am somewhere into deciding to close my business. I mean.......... I could keep it open forever, as i have the technical knowledge and resources to keep on producing collections . but they dont really sell enough to justify the sacrifice that i make to do them.the three thing that keeps me going is hope, and Guilt and the fact that i really love and enjoy what i do. Hope that things will change one day, and guilt that God has given me an immense talent, and it would be disrespectful to Him to not use it for the puprpose for which it was given.

Also, I hate to bring the issue of Race into the equation, but i honestly (albeit reluctantly) believe that part of My lack of Support can be directly attributed to the fact that i am a Black Man, I know this is another discussion that probably needs its own forum, and probably will make a few people uncomfortable.(although one thing i like at SZ is the Honesty of a lot of the people that post here)............

[Johnny]

Re: Designer Hype



Zamb - what is your clothing line and is there any way of seeing it online? Just out of interest...

The race thing is interesting.I'd like to hear your thoughts on that. Certainly, I know of very few black designers. The only one I can think of is Ozwald Boateng and he's not really a designer. Joe Casely-Hayford ( i liked his stuff but don't even know if he still produces). Can't think of many others.......

[JaridRose]

Re: Designer Hype



I think Race has as much to do with it as anything else. P.Diddy did it like you said, Roc-A-Wear...and Morteza Saifi did it, and he was from where? Iran?! I'm a straight white man and I don't feel like the gay men can make it any more than the teenie bopper or the douchebag who launched American Apparel....who is his own race/sex.whatever....

Here's the thing about the money.....if you want to be "A part of all that", if you want to do the shows and make the money, YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE PR!!! period....you know, you can't say"i'm so talented if they only knew" but complain about how fucked up it is that you have to pay 10,000 dollars for PR....

what it boils down to is something we were talking about in the FORME topic.....

fashion IS all of that...it always will be....if you are so talented BE HAPPY doing what Cloak did, or BE HAPPY Saving money, raising money, to pay for the PR, for RICHARD AVEDON to take your photos and all that, and then you will be part of it all.
Theres the Underground, where you dont give a fuck, and the Magazines, and fashion shows, and parties and celebrities, where you WILL ALWAYS have to pay to be a member, once you are a member, then you can tell them how much you dont give a damn and are anti- and better etc.....

But the fact is, who gives a damn about Parisan Couture and Dior and YSL back in the day? Who says they were masters? Magazines! Books!! Its the same thing as me saying that Proenza is AMAZING and soooo gifted....im not falling for all of that.....

The man who taught the Proenza boys how to drape taught me how to drape, and believe me, from what i see and hear they are as talented as anyone, Ever! yeah, i said it....Ever. I used to hate them because of all the things we want to hate them for, money, magazines, success, celebs, but they paid a little money along with their talent to get there and they did it.....

This also goes back to the idea that you have to make what they want in a way, Cloak never made it HUGE because he didnt want to make clothes the way THEY say UPTOWN.....its all a game, if i want to play, i'll play, if i don't i dont. If you want to be Famous, be famous, if you dont, then dont. Its a path, its a job, anybody can do it. Anybody can play the tortured artist, i hate the media and mainstream card too, believe me ive played it.....its all image either way you cut it.

[zamb]

Re: Designer Hype

[quote user="Johnny"]

Zamb - what is your clothing line and is there any way of seeing it online? Just out of interest...

The race thing is interesting.I'd like to hear your thoughts on that. Certainly, I know of very few black designers. The only one I can think of is Ozwald Boateng and he's not really a designer. Joe Casely-Hayford ( i liked his stuff but don't even know if he still produces). Can't think of many others.......

[/quote]

If you e-mail me, (dialogue@zambarrett.com) I can send you pictures of about the last four or five seasons........... My website is under construction, so there are no pictures there yet.

there are pictures at places such as JC report, Zoozoom, TFS etc.Its better to e-mail me though, as you get more (and better) images that way

Yes it is interesting (the issue of race, that is) because the most prominent Black designer in NYC, Stephen Burrows, (sorry P. Diddy and Kimora are not designers in my book) is a man who started in the 1960's and closed his Business for about 15yrs, and only restarted about 4yrs ago.

As much as i respect him and the contributions he has made, at this point he is doing nothing noteworthy or interesting.

the most successful black designer may be Tracy Reece, who does a womens contemporary line, She makes money but contributes very little to the forward progression of the industry, She is a very nice lady though.

there is/was Jenisa washington from LA who had a leather line called SOLD, i think she is the wife of actor Isiah Washington

there was Andre Walker, an Avante Garde (Jamaican) designer in Paris (he was and still is a Stylist and Ghost Designer for Marc Jacobs, Zac Posen etc) whose line failed a few years back.

there was Douglas Hobbs, who was co-owner in Miguel Adrovers boutique that used to be called Horn.

there was Byron Lars, who probably was one of the most creative designers in NYC during the early and Mid nineties

there is Patrick Robinson, who i want to be successful so badly, but has had more failed Jobs than any modern designer, He failed at Anne Klien, Perry Ellis, His Own Line, a secondary line called Green tea, and lately at Paco Rabane.

there is Jessica Ogden, (Jamaican and Chinese) who went bankrupt last year

there is Myself who is contemplating throwing in the Towel.

there was Patrick Kelly, who was a black american in Paris, the first American to be officially recognized by the Chambre Syndicale in Paris. He is constantly ripped of er........"referenced" by Marc Jacobs etc he died of Aids in the 1980's

there was Willi Smith, also died of Aids in the 80's (90's probably)

then there is Boateng, who championed the Slim Cut long before Slimane etc, albeit from a different perspective, He was Just canned by Givenchy Homme, as they are closing the mens division

there is a New One, Gavin Douglas, (jamaican) based in London, who won the prestigious, and financially rewarding) fashion fringe award. He was utterly disrespected by WWD when they previewed the London Collections, did a story about the Award, mentioned the previous winner(s) but failed to mention him anywhere in the article. Tgats like doing a story about the Vogue fashion fund, mentioning Proenza, and ignoring Doo-RIi, the current winner..

I think theric is also a New menswear designer in paris thats Black, i think his name is Eric, something, can really remember right now. i will say later

there are a lot of others, time wont allow me to speak on all of them, but they (we) are hugely underrepresented, some rightly so (as they are not all Good) others really deserving of support but not getting it for one reason or another