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    RACE,RACISM AND FASHION



    ok..this pretty much sums this thread up.



    im just tired of reading through 2 groups of arguements in the designer hype thread!



    So..erhm erhm... let the designer hype thread strictly be the designer hype thread



    ...maybe all those other race related conversations could be moved here?



    i should let zam take over from here... roger!



  • rach2jlc
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2006
    • 265

    #2
    Re: RACE,RACISM AND FASHION



    It's a good idea, but the point of threads is that they often go in unintended or unanticipated directions. The designer hype thread started as stated, but quickly became a discussion of race and then turned into pseudo-philosophical rambling (as Faust mentioned) that made me want to swallow my own tongue.




    So, in my mind, the best thing to do was simply let the designer hype thread go its way and fizzle out, as it already had gone WAY beyond the initial parameters and most of the good discussion had already been done. As such, I think people are a little worn out now to start again on this thread, but it seems a little idealistic to think that all issues of race can be "segregated" (bad pun) to this thread.

    Comment

    • rach2jlc
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2006
      • 265

      #3
      Re: RACE,RACISM AND FASHION

      [quote user="new_dawn_fades"]


      i guess ur right rach...i just get sick of reading threads that go nowhere and are far away from the thread in terms of discussion..like in tfs




      its usually arguements between two people.





      MODERATOR>.faust..can u delete this thread?





      [/quote]




      I agree with you and I don't much like it either when a thread gets 150 posts, 140 of which are between the same two people arguing back and forth and throwing out thinly veiled threats. BUT, unfortunately that's the nature of the beast and internet fora where people can hide behind anonymity. Honestly, though I don't like that either, I'd rather have that than have a forum where people are censored anytime they begin to stray off topic. Sometimes (though not, IMO, on the Hype thread ((although, in between the bouts of one-upmanship there were some pretty insightful posts, though they became harder to find as the thread continued))and certainly not in most cases recently on tfs) those digressions and diversions actually take the thread to a whole new level in terms of insight and discussion.




      SO, the short answer as I see it is that you are right that such digressions have their negative side, but the alternative of greater policing/censorship or segretation to a separate thread just isn't a road I'd like to see taken (and I know Faust doesn't want to do that, either!) Of course, if the digression is REALLY off-topic or irrelevant, then of course all of us can pitch in and ask the poster to take that elsewhere... but in general arguments (especially about race, politics, etc.) aren't going to go away.

      Comment

      • zamb
        Senior Member
        • Nov 2006
        • 5834

        #4
        Re: RACE,RACISM AND FASHION

        [quote user="rach2jlc"]

        It's a good idea, but the point of threads is that they often go in unintended or unanticipated directions. The designer hype thread started as stated, but quickly became a discussion of race and then turned into pseudo-philosophical rambling (as Faust mentioned) that made me want to swallow my own tongue.




        So, in my mind, the best thing to do was simply let the designer hype thread go its way and fizzle out, as it already had gone WAY beyond the initial parameters and most of the good discussion had already been done. As such, I think people are a little worn out now to start again on this thread, but it seems a little idealistic to think that all issues of race can be "segregated" (bad pun) to this thread.



        [/quote]





        Well,



        i had started to write a post in this thread, and i ended up deleting it.



        As i had said to Faust in the Designer Hype thread, the issue of race (not just race but other issues such as Politics, Religion, Sexuality, Elitism, Sexism etc) are hardly ever discussed without someone getting upset or taking it personal.



        As far as i am concerned, there is no issue that affects Humanity that i am afraid or uncomfortable in discussing . Maybe i lack the wisdom or the "diplomatic grace" to know which ones not to, or is it that i desire to make the world a better place, and believe that this can only be accomplished by facing the evils that exist in it, and striving to overcome them?
        I just honestly am convinced that if we are to progress as a society and a civilization we cannot remain in denial of some things that are abundantly clear to us. Our views on such issues may not (and probably cannot) be the same, as we come from different aspects of society, and all have different kinds of experiences that has helped to shape our view of ourselves and ultimately our worldview.



        To me, it is totally fine to disagree on certain issues, as sometimes no one persons perspective is the "right perspective."



        What i find sad and detestable is when an individual, is personally insulted or dismissed because thier experiences and ultimately their views are not the most positive among us.



        I am no racist, and based on my upbringing and spiritual convictions, cannot be, but i know that personally i have experienced the effects of racism, remarkably sometimes at the hand of people of my own race, does it mean that i am a victim? or am i playing the race card?



        i dont even know what it means "to play the race card" nor do i consider my self a victim, as to know where i am from and where i am today, it is a wonderful accomplishment.



        My life and my success is not, and cannot be beholden to the views and actions of other people.
        It is by Faith that I have lived and continue to live. I have an undeniable and Absolute belief that every man will ultimately recieve his Just reward. Therefore i continue to work and to live, knowing that what is mine by divine destiny, will ultimately be mine, because i cannot be denied by the views actions of any man. only by what i myself have done or failed to do.....................





        God Bless



        Zamb

        “You know,” he says, with a resilient smile, “it is a hard world for poets.”
        .................................................. .......................


        Zam Barrett Spring 2017 Now in stock

        Comment

        • Faust
          kitsch killer
          • Sep 2006
          • 37852

          #5
          Re: RACE,RACISM AND FASHION



          Well, after Zam's post, I feel like I should not remove the thread? I don't know.



          I am all for not hiding stuff on the forums, Zam. However, I do feel similar to what John feels - that the Internet allows too many idiots to voice their idiotic opinion and feel secure. As you can see, SZ is not immune to it either. I try to keep the discussion responsible and mature (I DON'T mean politically correct by this, of course), but I can't do everything, so I'll leave it up to everyone here to decide whether to remove this thread or not.

          Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

          StyleZeitgeist Magazine

          Comment

          • Servo2000
            Senior Member
            • Oct 2006
            • 2183

            #6
            Re: RACE,RACISM AND FASHION

            This appears to be a rather pointless thread to me. It seems that the only goal is to arrive at the conclusion that race plays a role in fashion, much like how race, unfortunately, plays a role in every part of the world. The very nature of the thread allows for almost nothing else: "Racism and Fashion" only has a single logical conclusion: perhaps there is racism in fashion.

            I don't think this has been much of a concern so far on SZ, aside from the rather unfortunate "Designer Hype" thread. I'd not so much say delete it as let it die a natural death.

            Perhaps it will become relevant at some other point.
            WTB: Rick Owens Padded MA-1 Bomber XS (LIMO / MOUNTAIN)

            Comment

            • zamb
              Senior Member
              • Nov 2006
              • 5834

              #7
              Re: RACE,RACISM AND FASHION

              [quote user="Faust"]

              Well, after Zam's post, I feel like I should not remove the thread? I don't know.



              I am all for not hiding stuff on the forums, Zam. However, I do feel similar to what John feels - that the Internet allows too many idiots to voice their idiotic opinion and feel secure. As you can see, SZ is not immune to it either. I try to keep the discussion responsible and mature (I DON'T mean politically correct by this, of course), but I can't do everything, so I'll leave it up to everyone here to decide whether to remove this thread or not.



              [/quote]



              Well, thanks Faust.



              As per my perspective, you an remove it or let it stay, it doesnt matter. its been here for almost a week and very little has been said in it.I know that this is a fashion forum, but their are issues in life that transcends fashion. Fashion promotes itself as a forward thinking and progressive industry, and it is often sad that some of the most archaic and uncivilized behavior can exist in its borders. And yes I can third the motion that the internet allows idiots to bring forth thier views, some of which they would never dare express in person. but that is just one of the negatives. Among the positives are that we can all come here from different persuations/ genders/ races and spiritual beliefs to Learn and share in a subject that is of common interest to us all-------------------------------Fashion.





              Talk soon



              Zamb







              “You know,” he says, with a resilient smile, “it is a hard world for poets.”
              .................................................. .......................


              Zam Barrett Spring 2017 Now in stock

              Comment

              • zamb
                Senior Member
                • Nov 2006
                • 5834

                #8
                Re: RACE,RACISM AND FASHION

                [quote user="Servo2000"]This appears to be a rather pointless thread to me. It seems that the only goal is to arrive at the conclusion that race plays a role in fashion, much like how race, unfortunately, plays a role in every part of the world. The very nature of the thread allows for almost nothing else: "Racism and Fashion" only has a single logical conclusion: perhaps there is racism in fashion.

                I don't think this has been much of a concern so far on SZ, aside from the rather unfortunate "Designer Hype" thread. I'd not so much say delete it as let it die a natural death.

                Perhaps it will become relevant at some other point.


                [/quote]





                Servo,



                I would agree with you, except i would want to think, not so much as to whether or not it plays a role, but what role and how much of a role does it play, Also, how does this affect the progress (or lack thereof) of fashion.



                the question can be asked: is their a perspective or an idea, that can revolutionize fashion or at least present us with a new way of seeing it, that may be unique to a race or group of people than has not yet taken thier place in the industry? (similar to the way the Japanese changed fashion in the eighties)

                “You know,” he says, with a resilient smile, “it is a hard world for poets.”
                .................................................. .......................


                Zam Barrett Spring 2017 Now in stock

                Comment

                • justine
                  Senior Member
                  • Jan 2007
                  • 672

                  #9
                  Re: RACE,RACISM AND FASHION

                  On a alternative note, fashion is also a race annihilator. A black person dressed in a punk outfit is: a punk, a goth latino kid is: a goth kid...

                  Comment

                  • laika
                    moderator
                    • Sep 2006
                    • 3787

                    #10
                    Re: RACE,RACISM AND FASHION



                    justine, that is a really interesting and rich point.....thanks for that. [51]




                    I think this topic should stay. I see the points that John and Servo are making, but I would be ashamed if we just dismissed race as a card that has been played. Would like to think that if there is an interesting discussion to be had, it would happen here. [51]

                    ...I mean the ephemeral, the fugitive, the contingent, the half of art whose other half is the eternal and the immutable.

                    Comment

                    • Servo2000
                      Senior Member
                      • Oct 2006
                      • 2183

                      #11
                      Re: RACE,RACISM AND FASHION

                      [quote user="laika"]

                      justine, that is a really interesting and rich point.....thanks for that. [51]




                      I think this topic should stay. I see the points that John and Servo are making, but I would be ashamed if we just dismissed race as a card that has been played. Would like to think that if there is an interesting discussion to be had, it would happen here. [51]



                      [/quote]



                      My point was more that the interesting discussion had not been found yet: at first, all we had was the fact that there was racism in the fashion industry. Hardly a discussion does that make! However, the points that Zamb and Justine have brought up since then are more than worthy of being discussed, and I would frankly enjoy to do so, but unless you guys can see the post, for some reason my first response got lost and I don't have time to response to Zamb's points, which are quite interesting in my opinion.



                      Somebody else will have to get the ball rolling, unfortunately.



                      How would you response to your questions, to perhaps start off, Zamb? Where, for instance, do you see a designer movement perhaps coming from soon?

                      WTB: Rick Owens Padded MA-1 Bomber XS (LIMO / MOUNTAIN)

                      Comment

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