Alber Elbaz in 2005. (Warren du Preez and Nick Thornton Jones for The New York Times)



For a branch of fashion that matters to very few people, haute
couture generates serious debate. In early July, Dior will celebrate
its 60th anniversary with a show at Versailles. Valentino will have a
45th blow-out in Rome. There?s a sense, however, that couture is again
in some kind of transit phase. The Valentino company has a new owner
and there?s a question of what will happen to couture when Valentino
retires. This past Thursday, in Paris, I sat down with Alber Elbaz to
ask what couture means to a younger generation of design innovators.
What would induce a designer like Elbaz, or Marc Jacobs, or Nicolas
Ghesquiere, to want to be part of an old-school couture house? Are
they?and fashion?missing something?




Elbaz: You know, almost every collection I do has
200 different references. I don?t have two of the same coat, two of the
same dress. I have it in one color, in one fabric. I?ve tried to adapt
the culture of couture, and the know-how and the heritage, but I try to
update it.




A couple of things have changed in women?s lives. Twenty or 30 years
ago, they had different bodies. They weren?t so into sports and
exercise. Bodies were very difficult to fit then. And I don?t think
women in the past were as emotionally strong as they are today. It was
very important for them to look beautiful. Now they want to be smart,
active. So fashion is not enough anymore. It?s not just about what you
wear. I mean, I don?t know how many women can afford to take the time
to come to Paris for three fittings.




I think it?s important to still support couture because we?re
supporting a technique, a dream. The problem with couture is not
designers; it?s what happens when the couturier will no longer be
there. When you go to the big ateliers, almost everybody is in his or
her 60s. I spoke about it with Karl Lagerfeld and he said at Chanel
there are also a lot of young people. But in many houses the age of the
workers is quite high. What will happen in five years?




Q: But do you think the knowledge will be lost if young designers like yourself don?t pursue couture?




A: If I don?t have an atelier, I am a paralyzed
man. But when I started working at Saint Laurent, I inherited two
ateliers from the haute couture. I gave them a jacket and I got it back
three weeks later. It took them three weeks to make a jacket. I had a
flou atelier with 20 people and one sewing machine. ONE. Everything was
done by hand. Try and get a skirt made quickly. It?s a big question you
are asking. Do you keep the past by going forward or do you have to
maintain it in order to exist?




Almost everybody I work with at Lanvin is from the haute couture. So
I work with all those seamstresses and pattern-cutters that did
couture. They?re no longer doing the made-to-measure, but they?re still
doing clothes the same way.




I work on fittings mostly. You know, I sketch less and less in my
work. I sketch for the show sometimes, but then it becomes more
conceptual. But when I don?t sketch it becomes more pragmatic.




Q: But do you think Chanel and Valentino need to have haute couture once Lagerfeld and Valentino decide to retire?




A: I?m going to contradict myself big time. I had
lunch recently with the president of DeBeers and I asked him who his
competitors were. He said, ?Art.? When you have a million dollars in
your bank account ready to be burned, you have a choice today to buy a
diamond ring or a painting.




You know, when Mr. Beene finished designing, he finished. When Mr.
Saint Laurent finished, he finished. There was no continuation. If
Valentino and Chanel want to continue, let it be. Who are we to say if
it?s right? If they love doing couture, if dressing 20 celebrities for
the red carpet and some rich ladies around the world makes them happy,
go for it. Go for whatever you believe in as a long as you don?t fake
it. I don?t know how to do sportswear pieces with, like, seven pockets.
[Elbaz laughs.] If you sent me to work for Banana Republic, they?d fire
me in a week.




But back to DeBeers. I see also another thing happening in the
world. I read these stories in financial newspapers that say a business
was sold for $3 billion. Wow! Or someone?s salary is $75 million. Doing
what? Reading some lines? [He laughed.] I?m dying here. We?re working
our asses off, and we don?t even get close to one eighth of an eighth.
So, I?m saying that maybe now with all this big money there?s going to
be a new couture client.




Q: Yes, but people said that in the 90s with the
high-tech explosion. But I don?t see folks from Microsoft or Google at
couture. They?re into art, maybe.




A: Yes, but when they have the art in the house, next they want the dress. To go next to the swimming pool.




Q: Nan Kempner may have been ga-ga for couture, but
she also appreciated the craft and fit. Can a generation raised in
casual clothes suddenly acquire this appreciation?




A: I believe they will. They?re not dumb people.
They?ve made a lot of money. These are also the kind of people who mad
their money themselves. And they?re new women with a new lifestyle.
They?re working women. They?re something more pragmatic about their
needs.




Q: One snag for couture?s future is time. People
want beautiful things but they want them faster. And designers have to
turn out other stuff today, like handbags and shoes?




A: How do we define haute couture? Is it
one-of-a-kind? Is it all about made-to-measure? For me, it?s about
being innovative and going forward. Cutting in a different way. Taking
fabrics and developing them. I see all these Macintoshes being glued
today, and I think, Let?s see what happens there. Can we move that idea
forward? That?s what couture is for me. It?s the ability to innovate.




I always say?I?ve said it a hundred times?fashion and food are
alike. Take French cuisine and just cut out a little bit of the butter
and the fat. The recipe is divine. Take haute couture: It?s beautiful.
I could not live without my atelier. Well, do it in a different way.




Q: Don?t you think Chanel does it in a modern way?




A: I?m sure Chanel does. Karl is a very, very good
designer. He?s very intelligent. And Valentino, too. I was thinking of
going to the Valentino show in Rome, just to give respect to a man
who?s been doing this for 45 years. How many dresses he?s designed! How
many women he?s made look beautiful!




Q: If you own a jacket made by hand in Paris, you
know there?s a difference in the way it fits and feels on your body. A
lot of designers like to use handwork because it makes their garments
more special and harder to copy. But a garment that?s entirely
constructed by hand feels different, because of the way the fabric is
handled. Doesn?t this matter in the long run to fashion?




A: There is something special about clothes that
are made by women and not by machine. They do something for the
clothes. There is a huge difference when I see a suit, or pants and a
shirt being done by the atelier, and the same pieces done by a factory.
It?s an emotion. Zara can?t copy that. Maybe that?s why we do almost
all the clothes at Lanvin on the body.




Q: The issue of time is interesting, though.




A: The older generation of couturiers had more time
to create. They created less, they were protected?nobody could see
their work. They were working in a cocoon. They were not celebrities.
They were technicians, in a way. Today, when all the designers see each
other, it?s what we talk about?the lack of time. We?re like sisters in
a big family!




But there are good things and bad things about not having enough
time. Not having time can help you create a kind of fearless fashion.
You are forced to touch only what?s essential, what?s important, and
what isn?t false.




Q: For sure, Paris couture will be another story in 10 years.




A: But the knowledge won?t be lost. You know, I was
trained by Mr. Beene, then I was re-educated at Saint Laurent. I
learned from two masters. I learned from their techniques. Have you
ever seen those corsets of Saint Laurent? There was a corset and then
on top, a chiffon dress. Those dresses were like air. And you saw the
nipples of the girls and you thought, How could that happen under a
corset? Well, there is a certain corset that is cut around the bust, so
that it?s out. It gives the bust a fragility, so it doesn?t look like a
Toyota. [He laughed.] You see how Mr. Beene would take one dart and
bring it to another place. Whatever I?ve learned from them, I have
given to people who have worked with me. They take everything that I
taught them and they continue. So there you go. Couture cannot die.