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  • nqth
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2006
    • 350

    How New York Got Its Look Back (NYT)



    I think it is an interesting view, for a foreigner like me:-) How do you US guys think about it?




    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/13/fa...on&oref=slogin




    How New York Got Its Look Back






    WHO knows when it happened?




    Was it back in 2004, when Thom Browne opened his men?s wear shop in the meatpacking district? Was it in 2005, when Michael Bastian left his job at Bergdorf Goodman to start his own label? Was it in February 2006, when Rag & Bone first showed its tailored clothing; or in March, when Tim Hamilton started his own line; or just last week, when Adam Lippes outgrew his Adam + Eve underwear line and showed a collection for the first time?




    It may be hard to say when the moment came, but not that it has arrived ? that is, when the words ?American men?s fashion? could be uttered in the same sentence.




    For almost 30 years, men?s style in the United States has been dominated by two ideals. There was Ralph Lauren, seductively recalling the glory days of WASPy privilege and old-school haberdashers. And there was Giorgio Armani, projecting a slickly tailored vision of cool for the Euro-conscious urbanite. And never the twain did meet.




    ?Never,? said Tom Kalenderian, the vice president for men?s wear at Barneys New York. ?When you came into Barneys, you either went to the American House or the International House. You would never have considering mixing the brand lists of the two departments. It would have been very confusing.?




    But the lines have blurred in the last few seasons. In the wake of the astonishing rise of Thom Browne, whose men?s wear shows are as imaginative and mind-bending as anything seen on Paris runways (as if the artist Matthew Barney had been let loose in the Polo design studio), young designers have cropped up in New York who are creating a look that combines the arch stylishness of European labels with the comfort and class that made American style what it is.




    In so doing, they are challenging two rules that have been hard to shake. One, that American men?s wear must be conservative and blandly preppy, as much of it has been for years. Two, that a fashion-conscious man will wear only men?s wear from Europe.




    ?I was that way for a long time,? said Gary Fischer, a human resources executive at a media agency in Manhattan who was for years a devotee of Prada and Gucci. ?I felt like nothing was happening in America. Now it?s changed 100 percent with all these guys. Michael Bastian is like the men?s wear version of Ang Lee?s ?Ice Storm.? Everything reminds me of growing up in Rhode Island in the 1970s.?




    Most refreshingly, none of the fellows in question ? Mr. Bastian; Mr. Hamilton; Mr. Lippes; Marcus Wainwright and David Neville of Rag & Bone; Adam Kimmel; and Patrik Ervell ? are trying to design like Europeans. Rather, they are taking the American men?s wear vocabulary and spinning it with a European sensibility. The results are classic clothes, but with a fashion-consciousness that focuses attention on luxurious fabrics and a slimmer cut (at Michael Bastian); an unexpected color palette and a weathered feel (at Tim Hamilton); an artsy silhouette and offbeat detailing (at Adam Kimmel).




    This is not merely a New York-Los Angeles phenomenon, either. The lines are being sold across the country, and Mr. Bastian has signed up to design men?s wear for Bill Blass, just as Mr. Browne has designed a line for Brooks Brothers.




    Still, the epicenter of the seismic shift would have to be the third floor of Bergdorf Goodman Men, where Thom Browne, Michael Bastian, Adam Kimmel and Adam Lippes are all sold. Tommy Fazio, the men?s fashion director, has cultivated these designers as fashion forces, as distinct from the sea of young men?s labels that focus on cool jeans and T-shirts.




    ?They?re creating their own collections,? Mr. Fazio said. ?They take that element of fashion and give it a sense of reality. They add a little nostalgia and put it together as a total package.?




    ?The European designers should really sit up and take notice,? he added. ?A lot of our customers are Europeans, coming here to buy Jil Sander or Prada, and now they?re looking at these guys, who are making clothes that guys want to wear.?




    Whether that means Mr. Bastian?s preppy-sophisticate sportswear, Mr. Hamilton?s clean-cut bad-boy threads, Rag & Bone?s raffishly Anglophilic wear, the new American look is one that has been to Europe, bought the T-shirt and moved on.




    THERE is a true American sensibility that is really cool,? Mr. Browne said. ?And it?s nice to see that these guys are all mining it in their own ways. That hasn?t really been appreciated, I think, and that?s what is making this scene that much more interesting.?




    Building almost unconsciously on the Man Friday ideal ? that is, dressed up enough to go to work, but dressed down enough to go out after ? these designers are creating clothes not out in the ether, but with both feet on the street.




    ?I do think this was started by premium denim, which elevated the level of acceptance for contemporary clothing," said Mr. Wainwright of Rag & Bone. ?People buying a pair of Rogan jeans for $300 gave us the ability to create the clothes we?re making now. I am not sure if in 2001 the American public would have bought a shirt for $250 that wasn?t made in Italy by someone with a foreign-sounding name.?




    It seems they will now ? or at least, the $250-shirt crowd will. What does it mean for European Union style? Stay tuned.

  • Orochi
    Member
    • Sep 2007
    • 92

    #2
    Re: How New York Got Its Look Back (NYT)



    Interestingarticle. While it's quite on-the-point in general I find it mind-boggling that the author doesn't make a single mention of Cloak when arguably it was Plokhov who spearheaded this renaissance ofAmerican menswear, and was first to cross the gap between European sensibilities and american style - apreviously uncharted territory.




    While I think it's great that these guys are shaking up the American menswear scene, I'm not really a fan of any of them. Except for Robert Geller (who also went strangely unmentioned in the article) there isn't much menswear during the New York fashion week worth looking forward to.

    Comment

    • Avantster
      ¤¤¤
      • Sep 2006
      • 1983

      #3
      Re: How New York Got Its Look Back (NYT)



      Thanks nqth, as a foreigner as well, I find this very interesting.



      I agree that the article makes a huge omission by leaving out Plokhov (and to a lesser extent Geller). But I always felt that Cloak's aesthetics were more European than American.




      let us raise a toast to ancient cotton, rotten voile, gloomy silk, slick carf, decayed goat, inflamed ram, sooty nelton, stifling silk, lazy sheep, bone-dry broad & skinny baffalo.

      Comment

      • Faust
        kitsch killer
        • Sep 2006
        • 37852

        #4
        Re: How New York Got Its Look Back (NYT)

        [quote user="Orochi"]

        Interestingarticle. While it's quite on-the-point in general I find it mind-boggling that the author doesn't make a single mention of Cloak when arguably it was Plokhov who spearheaded this renaissance ofAmerican menswear, and was first to cross the gap between European sensibilities and american style - apreviously uncharted territory.




        While I think it's great that these guys are shaking up the American menswear scene, I'm not really a fan of any of them. Except for Robert Geller (who also went strangely unmentioned in the article) there isn't much menswear during the New York fashion week worth looking forward to.



        [/quote]



        Exactly. Thank you.



        I think the article is full of hot air, to be honest. TB simply doesn't sell well - take it or leave it. I don't believe for a moment the hype - I want to see his financial statements. Apparently his boutique is a ghost town, and everything I've seen in Barneys gets heavily marked down - it's actually pretty common to see TB at the Barneys warehouse sale.



        Other guys are simply non-existent in the public's eye - noone fucking knows Adam Kimmel or Michael Bastian, give me a break. And aren't Rag & Bone guys British?



        The funny thing about this article - walk into the "designer" floor of Bergdorf Goodman, and it is the clearest Eurotrash/Americana divide you will see in your life. Dolce & Gabanna across from Thom Browne? Check. John Galliano across from Adam Kimmel? Check. John Varvatos next to Gucci? Check. Only Margiela is left in some kind of sophisticated bewilderment without a counterpart. Speaking of Varvatos, where's his name? Isn't he the designer who takes the American "guy" and gives him something nice to wear while keeping inline with his uber-safe aesthetic?



        So, what was the point of this article, I forget? Oh, trumpeting a few very niche designers as the next Ralph Laurens and Calvin Kleins...

        Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

        StyleZeitgeist Magazine

        Comment

        • Fuuma
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2006
          • 4050

          #5
          Re: How New York Got Its Look Back (NYT)

          I see you guys disagree about the designers mentionned but what about the "rise" of distinctly american talents, is that phenomenon they're seeing also unreal or do you see it happening and what are the signs? BTW I don't expect sales to follow at this stage but I'd like to see if you see a real crop of new talents and feel an awareness/interest is present in the more fashion-forward customers (early adopters).
          Selling CCP, Harnden, Raf, Rick etc.
          http://www.stylezeitgeist.com/forums...me-other-stuff

          Comment

          • Faust
            kitsch killer
            • Sep 2006
            • 37852

            #6
            Re: How New York Got Its Look Back (NYT)



            [quote user="Fuuma"]I see you guys disagree about the designers mentionned but what about the "rise" of distinctly american talents, is that phenomenon they're seeing also unreal or do you see it happening and what are the signs? BTW I don't expect sales to follow at this stage but I'd like to see if you see a real crop of new talents and feel an awareness/interest is present in the more fashion-forward customers (early adopters).[/quote]



            I don't know anyone who owns anything by Thom Browne, or Adam Kimmel, or Michael Bastian. Cloak was popular, but not mentioned here. Rag & Bone is developing, but I'm not sure how far they'll go. The fact that they are not American, but operate in America must be stated, I think, in an article like that. Just like you can't take away the fact that Anna Vintour is British when you talk about the influence of the American Vogue. Plokhov is Russian, and the Rag & Bone boys are Brits, and you can't take it away from them (in terms of aesthetic).

            Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

            StyleZeitgeist Magazine

            Comment

            • Fuuma
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2006
              • 4050

              #7
              Re: How New York Got Its Look Back (NYT)

              To be honest I always considered Cloak to be quintessentially European, the guy just happened to live and design in NYC. I fail to see this where this movement might be taking of; there?s a few relatively well know guys but there?s always a new crop of those and they disappear after a few yrs or integrate into the tapestry of typical US design. By the way I am not attacking or even commenting on the talent of the players involved, just on the impact they will have on the arguably smaller than we thinkfashion market.

              Selling CCP, Harnden, Raf, Rick etc.
              http://www.stylezeitgeist.com/forums...me-other-stuff

              Comment

              • casem
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2006
                • 2590

                #8
                Re: How New York Got Its Look Back (NYT)

                I agree with the general sentiment here that Bastian, Kimmel, Rag & Bone, and Browne aren't nearly as signifcant as this article makes them out to be. Except for Browne, I don't really see what is new that these designers are bringing to American menswear (especially Bastian who's shows look SO much like a J.Crew/Ralph Lauren preppy mash-up). I do think Ervell is doing something very unique and deserves mention, but again hardly anyone has heard of him, I don't see him breaking out to be the next Calvin Klein. While Cloak does bring a dark eastern European sensibility, I still see his desgins as American, or at least "very New York" (for evidence look at all the cloak at misshapes.com). The idea of more urban, never sleek, street wear with classy dandy touches (taken more from Ralph Lauren than Dolce) is more American than European. I tend to think high-gloss (stereotypically of course) for Euro designs and that's something Plokhov stayed far away from (until joining with Versace). Another transplant, Helmut Lang, really pioneered this aesthetic, but because of him I think it came to be deeply associated with New York style.
                music

                Comment

                • Orochi
                  Member
                  • Sep 2007
                  • 92

                  #9
                  Re: How New York Got Its Look Back (NYT)



                  I personally find Cloak'srecurring aesthetic "themes"to be a mix of Euro and American elements: Gothic and military-inspired pieces being the former, combined with looksdrawn fromaviation uniforms and old-world Hollywood glamour, probably respectively reflecting the backgrounds and interests of Plokhov and Geller (while he was still there).




                  BTW a couple days ago I saw some jackets from Rag & Bone's new tailored range and was completely blown away by the quality of materials and craftsmanship. I used to consider thatlabellittle more than overpriced hipster garb, but I was quite pleasantly surprised by this new change of direction.

                  Comment

                  • TypicalFashion
                    Senior Member
                    • Mar 2007
                    • 326

                    #10
                    Re: How New York Got Its Look Back (NYT)



                    they need to get out of thoms lap, BUT, i will say i think this is true:





                    ?I do think this was started by premium denim, which elevated the level
                    of acceptance for contemporary clothing," said Mr. Wainwright of Rag
                    & Bone.

                    Comment

                    • TypicalFashion
                      Senior Member
                      • Mar 2007
                      • 326

                      #11
                      Re: How New York Got Its Look Back (NYT)

                      what it comes down to, is that NYT is trying desperately to create a backlog of stories on american mens fashion, and in doing so, are generating a lot of shit

                      Comment

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