Rumor: Raf Simons to collaborate with Fred Perry

[Faust]

What a turn off....

http://www.dnrnews.com/site/article.php?id=957

Sporty Simons?

Nov. 8, 2007

LONDON
? After turning out a stellar spring collection at Jil Sander, Raf
Simons may soon have another string to his design bow.



According to industry sources, the Belgian designer is set to
collaborate with the British street and sportswear brand Fred Perry on
a men?s wear collection for fall. Spokesmen for Simons and Fred Perry
declined to comment.



If the deal does go ahead, it would be the latest in a string of
collaborations for the Belgian wunderkind: Last week, Eastpak announced
that the designer would develop an accessories line for the brand.

[Seventh]

Re: Rumor: Raf Simons to collaborate with Fred Perry

Perhaps he could be going in a Junya/CDG/Yohji direction of collaborations? That would not be so bad... (gritting teeth and crossing fingers)

[bakla]

Re: Rumor: Raf Simons to collaborate with Fred Perry

I'm not sure why you'd be surprised, faust. His Raf by Raf Simons line
is rife with polo shirts already - it seems a continuation of that.
He might as well have it manufactured by the same people who do
collaborations with the brands Seventh mentioned, especially if they do
it with more expertise.

[Faust]

Re: Rumor: Raf Simons to collaborate with Fred Perry



[quote user="bakla"]I'm not sure why you'd be surprised, faust. His Raf by Raf Simons line
is rife with polo shirts already - it seems a continuation of that.
He might as well have it manufactured by the same people who do
collaborations with the brands Seventh mentioned, especially if they do
it with more expertise.
[/quote]

I'm not surprised, but I have to say I am a little bit upset in the way of seeing a favorite designer lose a bit of integrity. I know I am being idealistic and it's a business and I should get off my high horse, and blah blah, but still. Next stop: Teenage Rebel pour Homme by Raf Simons.

[matthewhk]

Re: Rumor: Raf Simons to collaborate with Fred Perry

i gotta agree with faust - his RAF line is already watered down and pointless enough as it is...i'm quite disappointed by this news.

[Tiger]

Re: Rumor: Raf Simons to collaborate with Fred Perry

I wasn't happy when A decided to drop him but now..., you know the rest.

[sbw4224]

Re: Rumor: Raf Simons to collaborate with Fred Perry

I'd rather see Raf do a collab with Fred Perry than continue his try at his Raf by Raf line. Fred Perry makes sense to me, too, with its punk and skinhead backgrounds. If this goes through I'm sure it will bolst his sales more than his Raf by Raf which always seems to end up on sale. The seemingly continued strong sales of of FP x CDG might also make way for a successful Raf x FP venture.

If this can keep Raf going strong with his main line, I'm all for it.

[Seventh]

Re: Rumor: Raf Simons to collaborate with Fred Perry



I agree with sbw4224. Raf by Raf is terrible, if this collaboration forms a substitute, it can't be that bad.

Having said that, I really don't get the disappointment concerning Raf. I think his latest mainline collections have been consistent innovative and strong (especially Spring 08), and everyone is falling over themselves about the work he is doing with Jil Sander. What would really disappoint me is if his work became predictable or stale, but that hasn't happened at all, even as he (as a company) has expanded. Granted, Raf by Raf is painful, but it seems to have become a disposable line that allows him to be more adventurous with the mainline.

Do people not like him because he has moved away from the ultra-severe joy division/"gothic ninja" look? Or is it sour grapes that he is getting too well known? (I see people now quickly getting tired of CCP, because suddenly too many people know about him). I like that he is taking risks and don't begrudge his success, if he continues to make innovative work, who cares about collaborations?

[Faust]

Re: Rumor: Raf Simons to collaborate with Fred Perry



I don't begrudge his success, but anyone who is familiar with his early work will tell you that the quality of it has decreased significantly. It's the same old story - one wants to grow, so one hires a business manager, and all the business manager knows is maximize profit/minimize costs - quality suffers. Let's just say that Raf used to be my favorite designer, right behind Ann, and I haven't been taken with any of his collections in about 3-4 seasons. Yea, good pieces here and there, but nothing really outstanding. The innovation may be there, but the execution isn't.

And to be honest, I don't buy this whole shpiel about how secondary lines and perfumes allow designers to be successful with their primary lines. So, what are you saying - because the designer dupes the masses who don't know any better into giving him their money for subpar inane products it somehow benefits the elite who buy the real thing? That's kind of dishonest, no?

[sbw4224]

Re: Rumor: Raf Simons to collaborate with Fred Perry

I don't think it guarantees the designer to be more successful. Take a look at Ann Demeulemeester, for instance. She has yet to fund herself via a perfume or Ann by Ann disfusion line, but continues to stay afloat.

On the other hand, Cloak, while seemingly successful in the earlier in the decade, possibly could have continued with the additional revenue that a disfusion line produces. If there was a choice between Cloak closing or keeping it running by creating some type of additional, mid-range line, I would be in favor of keeping it in business.

I have a feeling, though, that Raf's new venture with Jil Sander was the start of all of these new collaborations and lines. Money is nice, afterall. Can't blame him for wanting to expand.

[Faust]

Re: Rumor: Raf Simons to collaborate with Fred Perry



It doesn't guarantee a designer to be more successful, but this has been the excuse du jour for any designer who wants to commercialize himself. Call it what it is - purely commercial expansion with next to zero design merit - and I won't have as much of a problem with it. Not all collabs are bad - some Y-3 stuff is actually really cool - but most of them are just commercial ventures.

And what defines a successful designer - is it being a multimillionaire? Neither Rei Kawakubo nor Yohji Yamamoto needed these (I am not even talking about the likes of Dolce) - they were successful enough. I haven't seen any stories of these designers going bankrupt... Besides, it is pretty much always a successful designer that can afford to launch a diffusion line - who will buy it if there is no brand recognition? I highly doubt that a Cloak second line would ever succeed.

[sbw4224]

Re: Rumor: Raf Simons to collaborate with Fred Perry



Isn't all design a commercial venture? Regardless of how esoteric or groundbreaking a designer wants to be, at the end of the day they need to live and pay their employees.

At the most basic economic level, I would say a designer is successful if he/she can at least make enough of a profit to continue and slowly expand. Another way to see success is through innovation and legacy - Cloak and Carpe Diem come to mind here.

[Servo2000]

Re: Rumor: Raf Simons to collaborate with Fred Perry

I hate to impose on this discussion, but I personally would be more interested in these lines if they used the Made in England Fred Perry polos (which I wear probably two to three times a week) as they are extremely decent quality and fit nicely for a perfectly reasonable price. Even the CdG ones fit like the made in Venezuela (or whatever) polos, which was a big turn off at the increased price.

The other issue for me is that for me, the cultural cachet of the Fred Perry brand is in its past that interests me. I'm not really wearing Fred Perry because of their association with CdG or Raf in time, I'm wearing it for the same reason that Raf is probably willing to collaborate (other than the money, of course) which is the mod / skinhead culture that embraced it. I don't see any reason to pay an extra $150 for a version that will be associated with the much less interesting "fashion forward" element of Fred Perry and fits like a cotton sack. If I want Raf I'm going to buy Raf, not Fred Perry.

[bakla]

Re: Rumor: Raf Simons to collaborate with Fred Perry

I agree with Servo. I have personally worn regular Fred Perry at the beginning of its comeback because for me it seemed the right time to revisit a polo shirt that had either the image nor connotations of a Lacoste or Polo. If we're fearing that Raf has jumped the shark, I can agree with that too, although I felt that more when he started his Raf by Raf line. I never did like that aspect of his designwork even when it was incorporated into his main lines (I don't need streetwear and hoodies that cost more than $250, curated as they are with images of his own preferred references), so I was happy to see it spun off into the Raf line, which Raf himself touted as another aspect of his aesthetic, not necessarily a diffusion line. Will I buy it? I haven't, and am not particularly spurred to. What interests me about raf is the integrity of his tailoring in the main line. That can still change as he evolves, as fashion is all about change anyway. One can only wait and see if the results are laudable or despicable.

When I think of such collaborations, I recall Alexander McQueen and his Puma and Samsonite licenses, which don't seem to have diluted his brand a whit. Granted, he never got the kind of cult status that Raf has in menswear, so mayhap that's not a viable comparison... the concept of a diffusion line makes me also think of Rick Owens and drkshdw, but there's such a minor brand connection between the two because of the disparate naming that I don't think any brand dilution occurs (not that the drkshdw line would anyhow, since it's so close to Rick's aesthetic, and still relatively expensive).

[RARA]

Re: Rumor: Raf Simons to collaborate with Fred Perry

I find this discussion really interesting. I dislike second lines since you pay more the brand name than the quality itself. Most of them are produced on same factories as lower price brand but still costing more because you pay a logo which is always marked somewhere outside the garment. I never buy logos but design and fine production. In fact you can find that on Jil, CCP, MMM and so on. Use to be always the ones without a second line. Create a collection for a lower price market is fine and reports money for sure. Ex: H&M designers lines which is more or less same quality as most designer second lines but still less expensive. I am a polarized buyer. Either I get the first line items when looking for something special or go to H&M or Zara when buying just t.shirts and so on. I found last Raf? collection (SS?08) to be more extravagant and unwearable than the current one on stores. Might it be because he is searching a distance from his work at Jil?

I cannot stand concepts as Armani having such a huge different lines, AJ, AX, EA, GA and so on. Sounds to me like the Incoterms?That the reason I believe we all of us like CCP, Rick Owens, LUC, MA+, Attachment, just to be more unique and less popular. How cares about D&G, Prada, Gucci or any Italian ?big logo? name in this forum?