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The (buyers) secondary market

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  • philip nod
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2007
    • 5903

    The (buyers) secondary market



    For how long has the the secondary market in fashion been a buyers market? The art market, as many know, allows one to spend two grand on a drawing and if you have good taste and the artist has a little luck, within 3-5 years see that value raise as high as six figures. (keep your fingers crossed that the market doesn't crash) Spend 1800 on the over hyped mythic MA+ aviator hoodie from the first season and chances are you'll never even see retail.



    so this makes fashion a pretty terrible investment. sure as a buyer you adjust and spend less at retail prices because you know you see them on the secondary market at cheaper prices, so why would anybody complain?



    I know faust mentioned he had some lit. on this and i guess i'm curious if fashion has ever been a sellers market or if its even possible. its just a strange feeling to drop $$$ in a store and buy the time you've walked out the door what you're holding is $



    i'm sure yahoo jp is to blame



    p ozzy

    One wonders where it will end, when everything has become gay.
  • the breaks
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2007
    • 1543

    #2
    Re: The (buyers) secondary market

    Fashion works like consumer goods rather than art. It's like buying a new car; its value drops by 20% when you turn the key in the ignition for the first time [72]
    Suede is too Gucci.

    Comment

    • Johnny
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2006
      • 1923

      #3
      Re: The (buyers) secondary market

      ^ yip.

      Comment

      • alterion
        Junior Member
        • Jan 2008
        • 12

        #4
        Re: The (buyers) secondary market

        The way the market works "newness" is inherently desirable with fashion, and we have to refer to fashion in this sense as opposed to style, because style is what you don't sell. :P

        Comment

        • Piffen
          Senior Member
          • Aug 2007
          • 359

          #5
          Re: The (buyers) secondary market



          I have no trouble seeing how Chanel dresses from the 50's are sold at a wee bit more than the retailed for.. So I think that there is a market such as the art market for clothing- it's just that the market for clothing is so much smaller.. Also I would say that clothing stops being clothing when entering the market for clothing that is comparable to the art market and simply become art..




          Perhaps it lies in the very nature of clothing and art - art is never meant to be used - clothing is always meant to be used. But of course interesting things arise when these blend, which they do all the time - as with say Altieri's work which in a way is more of an artwork than regular clothing, I am thinking of concept etc.




          Just some not very well worked throughthoughts and easily dismissed, I know, it's just that I realized how much work I would have to put in this text to make it more substantial and completeand I honestly don't have that time nor do I think I have the knowledge.. Better leave it to you guys who study these kind of things, I for one don't..^^

          Comment

          • Faust
            kitsch killer
            • Sep 2006
            • 37852

            #6
            Re: The (buyers) secondary market



            Piffen has a point about inherent utility of the garment - wear and tear is a given. Not so with art (Venus de Milo notwithstanding).



            All of these markets are a purely mental construct, kind of like the stock market (stock market is less of a mental construct, but there is a large element of it). It has been accepted in our society that art is an investment, ever since the aristocracy began patronizing art, and that was a loooong time ago. With the bourgeoisie taking over that patronage in the 19th Century it's only gotten better for the artists because the number of idle and rich has increased, and will continue to increase. Look, if tomorrow a bunch of people get together and change their mentality about buying art, where will art be? I think it'd go the way of the tulips in 17th Century Holland.



            So, for fashion to become like art, the same thing has to happen, a mentality shift. It happens here and there, but extremely rarely. One recent example (I hope Les does not mind) is the Cloak knit that sold for around $700 or so, IIRC? It retailed for $425 (ask me how I know). Same with ripped waxed Dior jeans from Luster, retailed for $550 IIRC, seen them go for close to $1k on Ebay. These are rarities though, because of 1) utility, 2) transiency and 3) ubiquity of fashion. One of the reasons CCP, CDiem, and M.A.+ hold value is because they CONSCIOUSLY go against 2) and 3). They can't quite get away from 1), and I don't think we'd want them to either :-)

            Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

            StyleZeitgeist Magazine

            Comment

            • philip nod
              Senior Member
              • Aug 2007
              • 5903

              #7
              Re: The (buyers) secondary market



              the car analogy is a good one. even as recently as ten years ago i remember people owning works by mike kelley for 20 years and saying they just held on to them because they were cool and that they would never get the price they paid back for them and that if you were to collect art you should never think about investment just if you like to look at it on your wall...so in some respects this is like fashion, except a mike kelley now as of an explosion in the market a couple of years ago, goes for millions. same with kippenberger.



              a friend of mine who died in a motorcyle accident, steven parrino, for many many years couldn't sell one of his paintings for 10k. and this was a guy who is very carpe diem in his contempt for the industry and punk attitude. he literally would crumple these minimal canvases so they were hanging off the stretchers. he was 46 i think and had done 50 solo shows over 25 years. and was ahead of his time. I was about to buy one, but he died, and i felt it was a very vulgar thing to vulture in on the scene, so i didn't. two years later, his prices approach $1,000,000.



              so i some ways i think the fashion market is like the old art market, and i wonder if its possible for it to heat up. people didn't always have the "mentality" and "reach" to invest large sums of money in art w such frequency, that is a new phenom. the reason it hasn't crashed yet, is that its not one market artificially holding it up, like the japanese in the late 80's, its actually many markets coming together. its global.





              edit: also, if primary market prices are starting to rise across the board dramatically could this be a sign of the strength of the market (and future rise of the secondary market) or is it just isolated greed?

              One wonders where it will end, when everything has become gay.

              Comment

              • Faust
                kitsch killer
                • Sep 2006
                • 37852

                #8
                Re: The (buyers) secondary market

                I don't think it's isolated greed. It's the old Veblenian conspicous consumption - spending money for the sake of spending money in order to differentiate oneself. The richer the world gets, the more the prices will rise to sustain the elite. Today $300 jeans is a MASS MARKET phenomenon - 10 years ago if you bought $100 Diesels you were considered a little mental.
                Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                Comment

                • casem
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2006
                  • 2590

                  #9
                  Re: The (buyers) secondary market



                  Yea, that is a sad thing about fashion, I think others pretty much nailed it, it's a combination of fashion's contantly changing nature and the desire for newness, plus the fact that clothes get worn down when used. I would say certain pieces that attain such mythical status as to fetch higher than retail prices after the fact do function more as a piece of art in the market than a utilitarian piece of clothing. I've been acutely aware of the depreciation of fashion lately as I try to pair down my closet (mostly for the sake of room). I'm selling lots of Energie, Diesel, D&G from another life, which I'm happy to get rid of since none of it has been worn in the last 2 years, but it still kinda hurts to sell a pair of jeans I paid $200+ for $8 today. The more exclusive stuff and the more limited availability I think the better chance a piece of clothing has at retaining its value, thus the reason my Diesel/Energie/D&G aint worth shit.

                  music

                  Comment

                  • Johnny
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2006
                    • 1923

                    #10
                    Re: The (buyers) secondary market

                    gie it to a charity shop, that's what I did when I was moving house and couldn't take everything with me. sort of regret certain aspects of that now....included a sweater from Dries' first men's collection

                    Comment

                    • AKA*NYC
                      Senior Member
                      • Nov 2007
                      • 3007

                      #11
                      Re: The (buyers) secondary market

                      Excellent thread guys. It's nice to be back. ;)
                      LOVE THE SHIRST... HOW much?

                      Comment

                      • Faust
                        kitsch killer
                        • Sep 2006
                        • 37852

                        #12
                        Re: The (buyers) secondary market

                        /\ true. you will save more in tax refund. if you don't itemize your taxes, your parents probably do, make the receipt in their name.
                        Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                        StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                        Comment

                        • Faust
                          kitsch killer
                          • Sep 2006
                          • 37852

                          #13
                          Re: The (buyers) secondary market



                          [quote user="AKA*NYC"]Excellent thread guys. It's nice to be back. ;)[/quote]



                          Hey, congratulations, married man! I see you are learning quick - judging by your avatar, you are already considering the next tactical move against the wife [66]

                          Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                          StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                          Comment

                          • casem
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2006
                            • 2590

                            #14
                            Re: The (buyers) secondary market



                            I've given loads to charity shops but I'm trying to get something out of my nicer things, thanks for the advice though, I hadn't thought to include what I've given as deductions.




                            [quote user="Johnny"]gie it to a charity shop, that's what I did when I was moving house and couldn't take everything with me. sort of regret certain aspects of that now....included a sweater from Dries' first men's collection[/quote]

                            music

                            Comment

                            • random
                              Senior Member
                              • Dec 2007
                              • 974

                              #15
                              Re: The (buyers) secondary market

                              just curious, would like to know which cloak knit your refering to. I might have missed some long time desired piece...[66]
                              I don't exist.

                              Comment

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