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The problem of Dishonesty.

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  • zamb
    Senior Member
    • Nov 2006
    • 5834

    The problem of Dishonesty.

    OK,
    Test said he would start this thread but since there is a reluctance I did.
    I hate dishonesty, especially when it comes to money. I don't come to a fashion forum to buy anything, I have tons of stuff I want to sell, but just cant really be bothered to list them here, ebay or anywhere for that matter,
    that being said I do understand the value that is added to the forums when like minded persons can buy or sell items that there is a mutual interest in.
    the real problem is, why would you bother to list an item, collect the payment for it and not deliver the goods ?, or even list an item that you dont even own? that's downright thievery, a voiloation of the buyers trust. something worthy of a damn beatdown

    seems like some people are even listing items they dont even have to rip people off

    We have a 100 post policy to be able to use the classifieds section and i've seen people speed to that number just to list stuff in the classifieds, just take the damn stuff to ebay or some other site that don,t have those regulations if you arent interested in other aspects of the forum.

    So far some have given good ideas to others to protect themselves. Suggestions such as buying from credit cards etc.
    we can all post Buyer safety/ protection measures here, so that others can be educated and protect themselves. but here are my recommendations.

    Faust I think there should be more stringent measures for selling merchandise, maybe a six month membership or something, kind of drastic, but seemingly neccessary to drive away the crooks.

    Maybe there should be a ban on people like blacksuit, baby etc who sold stuff on other sites and didnt deliver, if not an outright ban, at least a ban from the classifieds section.

    Also, know who you are purchasing from, its good to get some level of feedback from other forum members before pulling the trigger on a purchase, its always better to miss out on a deal than to loose your money for nothing at all.

    measures have to be taken to allow buyers to feel free in pulling the trigger on items without fear of losing their money............
    Last edited by zamb; 04-30-2009, 03:21 PM.
    “You know,” he says, with a resilient smile, “it is a hard world for poets.”
    .................................................. .......................


    Zam Barrett Spring 2017 Now in stock
  • Faust
    kitsch killer
    • Sep 2006
    • 37852

    #2
    Thanks for starting this thread, Zam. I welcome all comments.
    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

    StyleZeitgeist Magazine

    Comment

    • Test
      Senior Member
      • Dec 2008
      • 196

      #3
      Oops sorry, I was waiting for someone to say whether or not this kind of thing existed. I really don't know if there can be more stringent measures for message boards except the post limit for classifieds. Sorry to drag it up since the board is cool with him again, but when Cas went AWOL, it proved even established members can be culpable. Caveat emptor and all that.

      People scam on message boards for the same reason they scam on the streets. They come to message boards like this specifically because there is little protection and they can get more money for an interested items. I sell my stuff on SuFu and here rather than eBay because there are less fees and I can get more money.

      Also, it seems like the thread title should be renamed for simplicity sake.

      Comment

      • Magician
        Senior Member
        • Jul 2008
        • 709

        #4
        I just want to say that I've had memorably good transactions with Canaduh and Mike Lowrey.

        Both are highly recommended.
        Last edited by Magician; 04-30-2009, 03:47 PM.
        Selling badass McQueen topcoat 48/38/M. I also write and tweet.

        Comment

        • zamb
          Senior Member
          • Nov 2006
          • 5834

          #5
          Originally posted by Test View Post
          Oops sorry, I was waiting for someone to say whether or not this kind of thing existed. I really don't know if there can be more stringent measures for message boards except the post limit for classifieds. Sorry to drag it up since the board is cool with him again, but when Cas went AWOL, it proved even established members can be culpable. Caveat emptor and all that.

          People scam on message boards for the same reason they scam on the streets. They come to message boards like this specifically because there is little protection and they can get more money for an interested items. I sell my stuff on SuFu and here rather than eBay because there are less fees and I can get more money.

          Also, it seems like the thread title should be renamed for simplicity sake.
          Yes I remember Cas, story, but I think it is a great one as he ultimately apologized and worked things out. I've never met him in person but I do consider him somewhat of a friend, so it saddened me when I heard. for some strange reason I didnt lose faith in him and he has somehow redeemed himself. I am a firm believer in forgiveness as we all make mistakes, but thats still no excuse for being dishonest in the first place............

          I was with AKA*NYC* last week, he recieved a double payment from two persons within ten seconds for an item he was selling, he instanly returned the second payment and explained the situation to the payee. I found that to be very noble and it increased my respect for him. I just hate thieves.
          “You know,” he says, with a resilient smile, “it is a hard world for poets.”
          .................................................. .......................


          Zam Barrett Spring 2017 Now in stock

          Comment

          • marco-von
            Senior Member
            • Feb 2009
            • 133

            #6
            Always gonna be shady characters whereever and it will be hard for faust (and whoever else moderates this place) to keep tabs on all the shinnaghans. Good advice has been said numerous times...credit cards!

            Im on the same boat as zamb, im too lazy to sell any of my old clothes and usually wear them for DIY etc. I'll carry on giving them to charity shops.

            Comment

            • Test
              Senior Member
              • Dec 2008
              • 196

              #7
              If you have a correction or addition, I'll update this post.

              Paypal Safety and Scamming on Message Boards
              If You Are a Seller: ALWAYS HAVE TRACKING. It's like $1 or $2 and the proof is vital. If you are shipping internationally, tracking may not be possible. Keep your customs form. Warning: if you are using USPS as I often do, there is a tracking or customs tracking number on the receipt. Save it.

              If You Are a Buyer: You're a little vulnerable here. From what I've heard (correct me if I'm wrong), Paypal couldn't care less about what message board posts or PM's you have. If they ship you a box of trash, you might be screwed.

              Why You May Not Recover Money: filing a claim with Paypal will not necessarily get you money back. Paypal only claims money out of the scammer's account. If they pull the money out immediately you're basically fucked. What do you do?

              Use a Credit Card, if Possible: Credit card companies can initiate a chargeback while they investigate. So now you have two methods of recourse in action at the same time. Based on the responses I've seen here and on other boards, it has generally worked in the scammed person's favor to do so. I'd imagine if Paypal rules in your favor, the card company would use that in your favor.

              Money Orders
              The advice I received in WAYWT on Money Orders with original post.

              -Do not ship until the funds are received and cleared. Make sure your bank will honor money orders. (Here, and here)
              -For International, consider using Western Union (here)

              Checks
              -Do not take personal checks. Do not. Easily leads to fraud.

              I got this PM when I asked if I should accept checks.
              *Applicable only if both persons are inside the US*

              Money orders can be a hassle if they become LOST or ALTERED. Taking a personal check is actually pretty ideal because you would have the buyer's info on the check itself, if you need to contact him for anything regarding the funds, along with his personal check I.D. number at the bottom of the check. Easily traceable. You do not have either of these on a money order. Plus, on average, money orders take longer to clear than checks do.

              The buyer can have a certified check from the bank withdrawn from his account and sent directly to the seller. So it's a personal check, but authorized and signed by the bank... so it HAS to be good, because the bank itself verifies funds before printing and signing the check. no worries.

              Or, he can ask the buyer where he banks, and if the seller knows of a branch of the same bank nearby, seller can accept a personal check written out by the buyer to his nearby branch, and just cash it. No need to wait for deposit or see if it goes through, and the bank is obligated to cash it, since the check is off of their own bank. If they can't, it most likely will be because of insufficient funds, and seller won't have to send the goods to the buyer, knowing the check was no good.

              Bank certified check is the best way to go, though.
              eBay Exception
              Slightly paraphrased for easier reading - click quote to see original.
              Originally posted by beardown View Post
              If you buy something from Ebay, you are automatically granted buyer protection. If the seller cannot refund, Paypal refunds it and goes after the seller. Read the Paypal protection policy.

              The problem with message board buys is that there is no binding agreement. There's no agreement at all in the eyes of Paypal, which is why they're very lax with these kinds of arrangements.
              They try to push people towards Ebay to enjoy the benefits of protection because, well, Ebay owns Paypal.

              Go to any Ebay listing where the seller accepts Paypal and you'll see the paypal protection logo that says, 'Pay with Paypal and your full purchase price is covered.'

              They figured out pretty quickly that scammers transfer their payments so they had to put this in place. Again, that's for Ebay....I don't think you'd get any protection whatsoever on a message board where there is very little evidence of transaction terms, price, agreement, etc.

              Comment

              • sshum88
                Senior Member
                • Dec 2007
                • 531

                #8
                We could establish a feedback system where the buyer rates the seller in a number of different areas...communication, delivery, condition of goods etc. using a scale of 1-3 or 1-5. The seller should also rate the buyer...communication, speed of payment, etc. Personally I've always felt that the members here were always legit except for the few like blacksuit, baby who have tarred the image somewhat.
                Originally posted by eat me
                If you can't see the work past the fucking taped seams , cold dye wash or raw hems - perhaps you shouldn't really be looking at all.

                Comment

                • beardown
                  rekoner
                  • Feb 2009
                  • 1418

                  #9
                  Great idea, everyone.
                  I think most new members come here from google searches for specific designers or products to buy in the classifieds.
                  As a new member, I got the feeling that this was a fairly tight little community which was one of the reasons I wanted to stick around and exchange thoughts rather than just buy things that are hard to find in other markets.
                  Communication is the key to getting rid of the scammers I think. Between all the forums, we can usually spot someone with a bad reputation, even from their product photos at times.
                  So that's the good news.
                  I think the 100 post minimum to sell was an original great idea to keep some of them at bay...you can tell when someone is rushing to hit '100' rather than posting out of interest or to exchange ideas.
                  I do think there should be an absolute zero tolerance policy for selling...if someone rips someone off, they should be blocked from selling. Period. Once a scammer, always a scammer in my experience.

                  I was on honest forum or about a week several months back and what I did like is that they tie a user's profile to their Ebay feedback by having the members list their ebay user name.
                  That way, you can see what kind of history they have in regard to transactions. It sucks, but Ebay has kind of become the credit check standard for personal transactions. Most people have been on Ebay at one time or another and that info is free and readily available.
                  The one thing I could never understand is how you confirm that a member is referencing a legitimate ebay username and not just plucking one out of the blue with 100% feedback.

                  I will say this...I've had great transactions from 90% of the sellers on here. Mike Lowery, Faust, Canaduh, KM80 and AKA*NYC. Also bought something off of Tomatous on sufu who was right on top of it. (I know he can't sell yet but I'm sure he will before too long).

                  It took me three weeks to get something from Cas, which I was worried about for a while. Fortunately that's been the extent of my troubles. I wasn't happy about it but I wasn't ripped off.

                  I think as long as there is a thread to discuss (not slander) then it'll keep scammers at bay if they know there is at least an open discussion about it all.
                  And if you have concerns, voice them in the thread. Just knowing that members here are openly addressing the issue on top of the 100 post minimum may be enough to keep most at bay.
                  IF someone screws you over legitimately, post their physical address, email accounts, paypal account, etc...someone might know them and may be able to talk sense into them.
                  Seems like the network is already established...it just needs to be tightened up a little bit.
                  Originally posted by mizzar
                  Sorry for being kind of a dick to you.

                  Comment

                  • Test
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2008
                    • 196

                    #10
                    Considering how small the board is, ratings seem pointless. With Baby and Blacksuit and most scammers, the scam come out of nowhere and usually they're smart enough to leave. I support a Blacklist/Complaint thread, a la Superfuture. Again, since it's so small it seems Faust (as the lone mod) could regulate it without going nuts.

                    Comment

                    • ghettosalazar
                      Banned
                      • Nov 2008
                      • 53

                      #11
                      Originally posted by zamb View Post
                      I was with AKA*NYC* last week, he recieved a double payment from two persons within ten seconds for an item he was selling, he instanly returned the second payment and explained the situation to the payee. I found that to be very noble and it increased my respect for him. I just hate thieves.
                      what other course of action is available in this situation?

                      besides simply pocketing the extra payment of course. i'm just trying to say that anyone who isn't a scammer has no choice but to take the "very noble" action here.

                      Comment

                      • Test
                        Senior Member
                        • Dec 2008
                        • 196

                        #12
                        If the seller who received the extra payment pockets it, the buyer should file a complaint after failing to receive the item. They would have hopefully used credit card and file a chargeback.

                        Comment

                        • sumochamp
                          Junior Member
                          • Jan 2009
                          • 9

                          #13
                          so, i'm new here. i appreciate this forum for opening my eyes to new designers and personal style. thank you for starting sz!!

                          i've bought a few things here and there, but mainly come here to feel a sense of community with people who have a similar taste as mine. from what i've read through the various forums i'm impressed to think there are a lot of honest people on here. that being said i just had an experience with a seller who made a committment to sell an item to me and then sold it out from under me. it really made me think about honesty and integrity, on many levels.

                          i'd like to think people are honest and it's just a royal let down when you realize most aren't.

                          Comment

                          • the breaks
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2007
                            • 1543

                            #14
                            No sort of feedback system would have stopped the shit that's taken place or the shit that inevitably will.
                            Suede is too Gucci.

                            Comment

                            • beardown
                              rekoner
                              • Feb 2009
                              • 1418

                              #15
                              Originally posted by the breaks View Post
                              No sort of feedback system would have stopped the shit that's taken place or the shit that inevitably will.
                              But I think the idea going forward is to make it as tough as possible for people to get away with it.
                              You obviously can't stop everything, but you can make it as tough for them as possible. And let new people who come by who see opportunity here know that there is zero tolerance for it.
                              Originally posted by mizzar
                              Sorry for being kind of a dick to you.

                              Comment

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