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Was 2015 the year fashion crashed?

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  • mrbeuys
    Senior Member
    • May 2008
    • 2313

    Was 2015 the year fashion crashed?

    Alexander Fury in the Independent, stating the bleedin' obvious. As much as I like Fury, I much prefer our own Mr Rabkin's take on the subject in his recent comment on sz-mag.

    "Confused? You bet. The industry is confused right now: the designers, their collections, and the journalists watching them. And no wonder, given the contradictions; with brands lauding luxury, distancing themselves from the vagaries of “fashion” and trying to create something eternal but ever-fluctuating, satisfying a perceived need for newness driven by a clientele painted as insatiable nymphomaniacs driven by the greatest aphrodisiac of all: change."

    Last edited by mrbeuys; 12-29-2015, 05:22 AM.
    Hi. I like your necklace. - It's actually a rape whistle, but the whistle part fell off.
  • Faust
    kitsch killer
    • Sep 2006
    • 37852

    #2
    Aaah, thank you, sir!

    It's a good and insightful article by Alex, as usual (he's one of like, two fashion critics worth reading today).

    But, the question is, again, as I pointed out, what does it mean, "fashion is crashing"? Fashion will crash when designers start going out of business (we've seen an increasing pace this year), when people start losing interest and companies start losing money. Nothing of the sort is happening.
    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

    StyleZeitgeist Magazine

    Comment

    • zamb
      Senior Member
      • Nov 2006
      • 5834

      #3
      thank you Mr Beuys

      I was going to ask you to expound a bit more on your statement in the reboot thread, but I guess in posting this article I can see your position more clearer

      As a student of this Industry, along with being a designer I have both been experiencing, and observing the effects of changes (for the worse) in this industry.

      I have contemplated and suggested to some stores a few things that are discussed in the article, but some people are very resistant to change and to do anything different, even when there are obvious benefits to be had from these adjustments. Its interesting to know that others are exploring these scenarios and testing the possibilities because its clear the old model is not working for everyone.

      From the Article:

      "Rebecca Minkoff will be showing her spring/summer 2016 collection in February – the traditional date for autumn/winter – allowing her customers to purchase immediately
      "

      This is something more designers should explore. the benefits of it is that you can get a quicker return on your investment when the time/ money spent on research and design is closer to the selling season.

      Approached this way designers can focus on one collection at a time rather than two, with the traditional approach, you have to be producing Spring, while designing and manufacturing fall samples.

      For the stores they do not have to tie up dollars paid to confirm orders for 6-7 months before getting the goods into the stores, orders can be made, the items produced and be in the stores in about 6-8 weeks. However this works better for designers who have their own production facilities. one of the reasons why long lead times are needed is to allow for ordering fabrics, receiving them, and reserving time slot with production houses that are catering to dozens of designers other than ones self



      And Burberry and Moschino both offer customers the chance to buy immediately from the catwalk. (Jean Monnier, of luxury retailer Monnier Freres, says that 75 per cent of their Moschino product – predominantly accessories – sells immediately.)

      “Something's not right any more,” says the chairperson of the Council of Fashion Designers of America (CFDA), Diane von Furstenberg, of the prevailing seasonal arrangement. “Everything needs to be rebooted.”

      I agree with Ms Von Furstenberg on this, except to say that the manner in which they run the CFDA and the ind of lordship they try to have over the fashion industry IS a part of the problem that also needs to be addressed. the kind of gatekeeper mentality that they continue to operate with, is also outdated and needs to be revised, however people who are invested with a certain amount of power, in which they find their relevance are usually unwilling to let such power go, even if it means carrying down an institution with them.



      But what about designer fatigue? Or maybe fashion fatigue – of clothes in stores, images on screens, magazines, everything? Maybe we're all – designers, customers, journalists – just tired of so much stuff being relentlessly rammed down our throats? And perhaps we all need breathing space, before the whole damn industry comes apart at the seams, like a badly-made, quickly-sold handbag

      Yes possibly......maybe a break isn't a bad thing
      “You know,” he says, with a resilient smile, “it is a hard world for poets.”
      .................................................. .......................


      Zam Barrett Spring 2017 Now in stock

      Comment

      • Defender
        Banned
        • Jan 2015
        • 187

        #4
        If some designers in the fashion industry are to crash, it would be because they're just not good.

        I might have a bit of a unique point of view here because I'm relatively new, but also fairly dedicated.

        When I saw Rick Owens' Island show, I was absolutely stunned. I had never seen anything like that, and I knew I wanted to begin the journey to being part of his world.

        I have been building a base of knowledge, and a basic wardrobe, ever since. It has taken me years, and I'm still working on it (as the flaming of my previous fit pics would show). This month I bought in heavily to Sphinx and some archive pieces because I feel I'm ready.

        The reason I say all of this is because there are NO other designers in whose work I am the least bit interested. The opposite is almost certainly true: there are probably a handful of people in my entire city, county, region, or maybe the entire Midwest who are also into Rick Owens. I have never, and likely will never see anyone else ever wearing a Rick piece in my daily life.

        So, where Rick's artistry has absolutely captivated me, and some others on this board, we have to admit that despite how "big" we think Rick's audience is, it's really an incredibly small number of people worldwide. I mean, of the near 8 billion people on earth, how many buy Rick, and of them, how many wear it well?

        What I mean is, fashion can't really crash when the true artists and true fans will always hold one another dear. The people folding up shop weren't good enough to make fans the way Rick has made a fan out of me.

        Edit: (tldr) Fashion and its myriad bullshit designers might "crash," but real artists with passionate and devoted fans/patrons will always be able to make and sell their art.
        Last edited by Defender; 12-30-2015, 05:51 AM.

        Comment

        • aussy
          Senior Member
          • Jul 2011
          • 555

          #5
          Well, good luck on your journey.

          That post aside and returning to the article: the title is total click bait and as Faust says in far fewer words: fashion is simply changing. The inevitability of an industry driven by change (as the article addresses) also shifting doesn't make that transition any less difficult to watch. Still, the internet came down from the heavens and sure, radio, television and James Dean also happened and yet fashion persists.

          I'll save what few thoughts I have left for the reboot thread.

          Comment

          • Faust
            kitsch killer
            • Sep 2006
            • 37852

            #6
            Originally posted by Defender View Post
            If some designers in the fashion industry are to crash, it would be because they're just not good.

            AND THE REST OF THE POST
            Impassioned but misguided. Plenty of talented fashion designers have gone out of business (or broke down or have taken their life). When what dominates is marketing, PR, hype, and celebrity relationships, and when most people chase status via brand recognition, to say that meritocracy is what brings success is naive at best.
            Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

            StyleZeitgeist Magazine

            Comment

            • Defender
              Banned
              • Jan 2015
              • 187

              #7
              Originally posted by Faust View Post
              Impassioned but misguided. Plenty of talented fashion designers have gone out of business (or broke down or have taken their life). When what dominates is marketing, PR, hype, and celebrity relationships, and when most people chase status via brand recognition, to say that meritocracy is what brings success is naive at best.
              Only if your vision of success is limited to financial success and widespread recognition.

              I know a lot of successful artists who are getting by quite nicely, but who most people would think of as poor or unsuccessful.

              Also, in order to not name names in case they have relationships with this website/magazine, the recent designers who have dropped out are not good, and do not make interesting clothes.

              If someone goes completely out of business as an artist, it's usually because they got in over their head and lost control of their "brand," or they stopped making work people enjoy.

              Otherwise, any artist can contract their business, continue to produce good work, and retain a smaller following. Examples are one-hit-wonders who are still touring smaller club circuits. They had widespread appeal at one time, but have retained their smaller followings by continuing to make music that appeals to that smaller following.

              For a fashion designer to complete shutter his or her doors means they don't even have a small following of people willing to drop some money on small offerings each season...or they made bad business/lifestyle decisions which prevents them from being able to do so.

              If there is some alternative, please let me know. It would be interesting to hear how someone that's a big designer would all of a sudden not be able to sell a few pieces per season to a dedicated audience and retain a small shop and studio somewhere, if they were actually talented.

              Edit: Honest to god I'm not trying to be an asshole. I feel like I have to say that because people here jump on what I say a lot. Examples of designers contracting and maintaining a small following are Jona from Inaisce and Sruli, are they not? That's what I mean. The "big" designers that collapsed seemingly don't have the talent to fall back on, nor the cult following that requires, to continue to make moves like those two guys do.
              Last edited by Defender; 12-30-2015, 10:08 AM. Reason: Explanation

              Comment

              • Faust
                kitsch killer
                • Sep 2006
                • 37852

                #8
                Originally posted by Defender View Post
                Only if your vision of success is limited to financial success and widespread recognition.
                How the HELL are you supposed to define when you go out of business?! No business = no definition of any kind, not financial, not creative.

                I'm not talking about Sruli or Jona. I am talking about designers like Jurgi Persoons, Angelo Figus, Miguel Adrover, and so on - people who have made waves, received critical acclaim but failed nonetheless, designers you have no idea about because your vision of "fashion" is less than 101.

                Honestly, have you considered that it's not the forum singling you out but that you cannot articulate your underdeveloped ideas?
                Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                Comment

                • Defender
                  Banned
                  • Jan 2015
                  • 187

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Faust View Post
                  How the HELL are you supposed to define when you go out of business?! No business = no definition of any kind, not financial, not creative.
                  A true artist never goes out of business. That's what you don't seem to understand. If Owenscorp went under, but Rick was selling great clothes out of a small shop in LA, I'd be there buying what he's making.

                  (The same is true of professionals: A professional is never out of business...they might not have any clients, currently, but they always have the opportunity to practice their profession if they find clients)

                  There is a reason I don't know about those people you mentioned....

                  You literally described being a one-hit-wonder in your description of them. For some reason you don't seem to recognize the difference between being great and being a flash in the pan.

                  I don't understand how you're confused, here. If they were good, I might know about them, or they might have enough of a following to sell some of their art. It's not brain surgery...talent -> good work -> a following -> sales.

                  There is some failure in that chain if they are no longer making money with their art.

                  Comment

                  • julian_doe
                    Senior Member
                    • Mar 2013
                    • 339

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Defender View Post
                    A true artist never goes out of business. That's what you don't seem to understand. If Owenscorp went under, but Rick was selling great clothes out of a small shop in LA, I'd be there buying what he's making.

                    (The same is true of professionals: A professional is never out of business...they might not have any clients, currently, but they always have the opportunity to practice their profession if they find clients)

                    There is a reason I don't know about those people you mentioned....

                    You literally described being a one-hit-wonder in your description of them. For some reason you don't seem to recognize the difference between being great and being a flash in the pan.

                    I don't understand how you're confused, here. If they were good, I might know about them, or they might have enough of a following to sell some of their art. It's not brain surgery...talent -> good work -> a following -> sales.

                    There is some failure in that chain if they are no longer making money with their art.
                    What characteristics do you believe a "true artist" to have? Does the title require the artist to be financially successful?

                    Names of artists that most can relate to include Monet and Van Gogh. Thoughout both of their lives, these two artists lived with little appreciation for their work and/or their public image. They (specially Van Gogh) were often seen as outcasts and misfits, and their art was perceived to be often "ugly" and "formless". And yet, their posthumous recognition and influence has lasted hundreds of years. Today, their work is highly praised and many consider them to be geniuses.

                    Maurizio Altieri's work! I have never seem mainstream recognition for Carpe Diem, but his work has been and continues to be incredibly praised and influential.

                    Your view of art and fashion is incredibly narrow, and I recommend that you look beyond mainstream regard and further into craft and intellectualism when you discuss the work of designers. That is what this forum is for, to appreciate the artisanship in this niche portion of the world of fashion.

                    Comment

                    • timm3h
                      Senior Member
                      • Mar 2011
                      • 115

                      #11
                      ^ That's a very deterministic view... seems like it would be more accurate to say something along the lines of 20% talent + 80% uncontrollable randomness -> good work; 20% good work + 80% uncontrollable variance -> a following, and so on and so forth.

                      If every "good" artist were financially comfortable I'm sure it would be a much more appealing career path
                      Clothing deconstruction & review

                      Comment

                      • zamb
                        Senior Member
                        • Nov 2006
                        • 5834

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Defender View Post
                        A true artist never goes out of business. That's what you don't seem to understand. If Owenscorp went under, but Rick was selling great clothes out of a small shop in LA, I'd be there buying what he's making.

                        (The same is true of professionals: A professional is never out of business...they might not have any clients, currently, but they always have the opportunity to practice their profession if they find clients)

                        There is a reason I don't know about those people you mentioned....

                        You literally described being a one-hit-wonder in your description of them. For some reason you don't seem to recognize the difference between being great and being a flash in the pan.

                        I don't understand how you're confused, here. If they were good, I might know about them, or they might have enough of a following to sell some of their art. It's not brain surgery...talent -> good work -> a following -> sales.

                        There is some failure in that chain if they are no longer making money with their art.
                        Your reasoning is very faulty and I don't know how you cannot see it.

                        I do not know what your definition of 'being in business' or being Successful is.

                        Let me just give you an example. Take Plokhov, the latest designer we know to close his business.
                        by ANY Measure you place it, he has been a successful designer.
                        At its Height, Cloak was one of the most Iconic menswear brands in terms of a defined Aesthetic even if it did not reach the commercial success it had the potential to become. After he closed he went on to design Versace Menswear. He surely could not have gotten that Job if he were not successful. He then started his namesake label. without getting into detail I am almost CERTAIN he could have continued his brand if he wanted to.
                        Often times it is up to a designer/ business person to decide if its worth it to continue a brand. Making that decision is based on a numerous factors that ONLY the individual making the decision has to think about, and closing the business may be a better decision than keeping it open. I doubt making a better decision can be considered a failure.
                        Plokhov is now able to devote his considerable talents to designing for Helmut Lang, rather than dividing his time (and Money) between his own label and that of Lang
                        “You know,” he says, with a resilient smile, “it is a hard world for poets.”
                        .................................................. .......................


                        Zam Barrett Spring 2017 Now in stock

                        Comment

                        • Defender
                          Banned
                          • Jan 2015
                          • 187

                          #13
                          All I'm saying is that capital F Fashion might be crashing, but that doesn't mean that good design is going anywhere.

                          Those who are actually good, and who design artfully and idiosyncratically, are going to succeed and carry on designing and selling clothing.

                          Those who are not good, or who are but have made bad business decisions, or who just aren't up to the task of weathering a storm, will fail.

                          To say that Fashion will crash in 2015 might be true, but only if you consider the shit that people buy all day every day to be Fashion. Do I think there will be fewer "Designers" to click through at the online megamalls? Sure. Would that be a tragedy? No.

                          Comment

                          • Faust
                            kitsch killer
                            • Sep 2006
                            • 37852

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Defender View Post
                            A true artist never goes out of business. That's what you don't seem to understand. If Owenscorp went under, but Rick was selling great clothes out of a small shop in LA, I'd be there buying what he's making.

                            (The same is true of professionals: A professional is never out of business...they might not have any clients, currently, but they always have the opportunity to practice their profession if they find clients)

                            There is a reason I don't know about those people you mentioned....

                            You literally described being a one-hit-wonder in your description of them. For some reason you don't seem to recognize the difference between being great and being a flash in the pan.

                            I don't understand how you're confused, here. If they were good, I might know about them, or they might have enough of a following to sell some of their art. It's not brain surgery...talent -> good work -> a following -> sales.

                            There is some failure in that chain if they are no longer making money with their art.
                            You have no idea what you are talking about. I'm done with you - keep talking to yourself.
                            Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                            StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                            Comment

                            • mrbeuys
                              Senior Member
                              • May 2008
                              • 2313

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Defender View Post
                              All I'm saying is that capital F Fashion might be crashing, but that doesn't mean that good design is going anywhere.

                              Those who are actually good, and who design artfully and idiosyncratically, are going to succeed and carry on designing and selling clothing.

                              Those who are not good, or who are but have made bad business decisions, or who just aren't up to the task of weathering a storm, will fail.

                              To say that Fashion will crash in 2015 might be true, but only if you consider the shit that people buy all day every day to be Fashion. Do I think there will be fewer "Designers" to click through at the online megamalls? Sure. Would that be a tragedy? No.
                              Are you listening to ANYTHING that people who are actually working in the business, like Zamb as a designer and Faust as a journalist, are saying? Never mind that your line of argument is non-sensical at best.
                              And "the shit that people are buying all day" is most likely H&M or Zara and they seem to be doing very well. Considering your only point appears to be that you like Rick, you are taking up an awful lot of space with apparently zero knowledge about fashion. And thanks to the ignore list, you may well be talking to yourself very soon.
                              Hi. I like your necklace. - It's actually a rape whistle, but the whistle part fell off.

                              Comment

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