Is there a room in the fashion world for un-seasonal designers?

[municeps]

We've seen examples of designers such as Bless, CCP, Paul Harnden etc who has previously or still producing seasonless (as in S/S or F/W biannual fashion presentation cycles) collections. But even those who started out as such seem to feed into the circle of those major global collection. I believe that the fundamental reason for that is efficient distribution of the collection/stock.

Although dominated by a few top fashion retailers, with development of the online media it's now much easier for designers to communicate directly with their customers. In a way, it gives the designer much more freedom both financially and creatively.

Do you think that there are signs of such movement? Is there room for such approach?

[kunk75]

i only buy cruise collections

[tricotineacetat]

Based on the pragmatic fact that few buyers are willing to make their agendas fit with a designer that shows outside the usual window of fashion weeks, it makes sense that everybody is showing (more or less seasonal) collections in Paris, Milan, etc. - So yes, people like Carol Christian Poell or Alaia are clearly an exception to these 'rules'.

As far as non-seasonal/transseasonal/carry-over merchandise is concerned, I do think a lot of retailers and fashion houses are already taking into account that not everything in their seasonal offering shall necessarily be subject of discounting - I keep thinking of Rick Owens' collection as a perfect example of a wardrobe that is consistantly based on essential staples of his look and I'd find it dubious to see these pieces discounted, only to be re-stocked again in almost entirely the same fabrication again. Dior Homme also has a few Hedi-era classics that keep coming back and those have never been on sale, for good reason as there is consistant demand for them. For the retailers, it's only a question weather or not they can re-stock on those pieces throughout the season or if they are dependant on placing their orders through the regular order windows - In that case, smaller scale manufacturers should offer a benefit in proceeding smaller series' productions, given that fabrics and supplies can be provided in time.

[Faust]

A designer has to have an audience in order to buck the trend. Otherwise he's shouting into the void.

Also, fashion is quite a schizophrenic enterprise. On the one hand you see "Slow Design", on the other ordering Burberry trenches off the web right after the show.

I spoke briefly to the head of Bergdorf Goodman men's last week, and he was completely up for preordering stuff right after the shows, the way LVR and others are now doing.

[syed]

Pre-ordering right after the shows strikes me as extreme, but I guess it makes perfect sense. Instant availability of information, and the speed that images from the runway are disseminated (heck you even have live streams), means that consumers want access as soon as possible, so the stores need to react. I think as a society we are at a point (and have been for a while) where we want everything to happen right now. Heck look at the immediacy and popularity of Twitter and how that has had a real impact on society (easy to fob it off, but look at the election in Iran and how Twitter was used).

I think it is easy to get wrapped in the fast pace that is inherent to fashion. Fashion has to be of the moment and 'in fashion', by its very definition. In that there will always be an anxiety of no longer being 'in fashion', which is something that can be seen all around us. Exclusivity and feeling unique, having the latest thing, is not a bad thing, but taken to extremes it is detrimental to the appreciation of good design and valuing garments (Lanvin for H&M and the insane eBay prices are a good example).

I don't want to say that certain designers 'transcend' fashion, but having well designed staples that appear again and again marks them as different to designers who change every season just to keep themselves looking fresh and interesting to a generally disinterested audience. Lots of consumers just want something pretty and new to buy into, they don't want to think about what they like, they want it given to them on a plate every season with 'must haves' and trends (I'm thinking in particular of those awful glossy magazines I always see women reading).

Sometimes I wish things would slow down, and it wouldn't move so quickly from season to season, just so that we could have the chance to really look and understand pieces before looking to the next thing. I love the fact that CCP (I still haven't figured out why people refer to him as Diesel ) doesn't produce biannual collections, and indeed the pieces aren't really a collection in the traditional sense either. Similarly the fact that Rick and other designers produce staples that defy the continual new-ness of design, is something I take comfort in. Of course reinterpretation for each season and year is understandable, but I like the idea of having basics and garments that crop up again and again. You can't wear just statement pieces, because you would have an insane turnover in the development of your wardrobe, having to buy new things every season (although that is admittedly what many people do, but personally I would rather have a longer relationship with my clothing than just one season).

I found it interesting to discover that in terms of fashion in the museum, there are actually museums who are buying clothing directly from the studio in order to safeguard them. Completely bypassing the experience of the wearer and social impact of garments, but in the current climate it is at least a guarantee for them.

Seasons in themselves are interesting, because not everywhere in the world even has very clear cut seasons. Heck in London it is grey pretty much all year (one day of snow and everything shuts down, one day of sun and it's evidence of global warming on a catastrophic scale ). Even on SZ there has been discussion that certain designers are more suited to Autumnal, rather than Spring, collections (one of the first things I did on this forum was read through the archives - one heck of a goldmine! ).

I don't know whether you could consciously release only one collection, or unseasonal collections, without major consideration. At the end of the day designers produce to sell, nobody wants their garments left sitting in the store. Designers always say the nicest compliment is to see somebody wearing their clothing. If they removed themselves from the seasonality, and the financial and production framework that accompanies it, I think some could quite easily lose out and struggle. You need to have a really powerful voice and vision to do that, which thankfully a lot of designers discussed here do have.

Personally I love the 'in between' seasons - Autumn and Spring. Would happily dress just for those two and ignore Winter and Summer if I could.

*edit* Yikes sorry, didn't mean to write so much.

[seenmy]

I will not be surprised to see the luxuary house's in the near future, look to work on a more direct business with collections going direct to store after the season shows,I think with the influence of online and brands now getting on board and seeing the power online has for them both in communication and retail we will see brand (luxuary prada/hermes/gucci etc) begin to leave stockists and opperate on a more direct business cutting out the middle man and making larger profits, also allowing them to tighter control brand images (many had huge problems with department stores discounting etc)

I think once one of the big guns breaks the seasonal system the door is open for the industry cycle to change,when this will happen I don't know but I think its a question of when rather than if

[kunk75]

on a personal note, it really makes no difference to me as winter outerwear aside, I am seasonally agnostic and buy what I want regardless of season or collection. Half the time the f/w or s/s nature seems to exist only as a means of advancing the retail notion that you should buy this now. I mean, the great majority of RO or CCP or Ann seem like they could work for any season, especially RO since the hallmark is multiple thin layers of fabric anyway.

[widmerpool]

I don't see how it would work everywhere. When I lived in the UK I wore the same things all year, in Moscow I wear almost nothing in the summer that I wear in the winter.

[Shucks]

only as a means of advancing the retail notion that you should buy this now.

which should not to be underestimated as driver of sales for the fashion system in general (not talking small independents here).

tricotineacetat - interesting about carry-over styles not being discounted, a la rick cardigans. however, the sales periods can generate a lot of profit, even after discounts. sales are not necessarily aimed at the same customers - i know some retailers reserve some of their open-to-buy specifically for this 'sales customer'.

also, from a strategic point of view, there are some major benefits for big rival firms in also cooperating/coordinating their activities sometimes, hence you have agreement and coordination on fashion weeks, on marketing channels, trends, sales tactics, buying, store locations, communication drivers (like 'heritage' for luxury brands) delivery windows... it's a way of securing the high profit margins and stability in a supposedly 'unstable' business, and of locking out newcomers.

also, i do think that seasonality as a concept is something which most of us also have deeply ingrained in our cultures (maybe not SoCal ) and it affects how retail business is structured (e.g. the importance of christmas for retailers!), not just the other way around. so i think there are limits as to how 'free' one can be of this.

interesting thread, will think and try to add.

[Faust]

Too much to quote all the good points, so

1. Re: seasonability - totally depends on where you live. Ask any New Yorker. Better yet, ask an antipode. Australians are totally fucked when it comes to fashion. Maybe that's why so many of them hang out on SZ.

2. Collections availability - may work for menswear, but for womenswear the entire calendar will have to be shifted. This makes no sense at all. But people will try this anyway. Fashion is all about keeping up with the Joneses and the industry will do its best to be the Joneses doormat.

3. OT: there was a great article in the New Yorker how the whole Iranian Twitter revolution was bullshit and that no real/reliable testimony came via Twitter from Iran, but was rather rumors disseminated by the TV-watching Westerners.

[Fuuma]

I like seasons cause when it comes to dressier clothing stuff like white summer pants make my day.

[lowrey]

I fully support non-seasonal and irregular collections. I can understand and even appreciate small labels presenting either a single collection annually, or the same / slightly varied collection twice a year. This leaves more room to focus on all the qualities of design. I certainly hope that retailers are not scared to support designers who do this.

what goes for these right-after-show preorders a la LVR, I'm curious how fast food fashion consumers will bear to wait for the goods for 9 months or so, by then they've already purchased two similar jackets which they probably don't wear.

does it come with fries?

[Shucks]

I like seasons cause when it comes to dressier clothing stuff like white summer pants make my day.

well, there u go then - there will be no more questioning of seasonality. the fuuma steez must be maintained.

[tricotineacetat]

tricotineacetat - interesting about carry-over styles not being discounted, a la rick cardigans. however, the sales periods can generate a lot of profit, even after discounts. sales are not necessarily aimed at the same customers - i know some retailers reserve some of their open-to-buy specifically for this 'sales customer'.

You can assume that the average retailer is not making any profits with designer merchandise that is discounted 40 or 50% percent off the regular retail prices, as most stores are calculating with more or less the same mark-ups (unless you are in the position of stores like Luisa via Roma that are apparently getting discounts on the wholesale prices from certain designers... in which case they would then still make a marginal profit on considerably discounted merchandise).

In any case, I believe a successful collection model should always try to offer a good balance between the reliable staples of the designer's established look and a seasonal part in which new ideas are being tested out, that eventually get either discarded or implemented into the existing vocabulary. I find it completely necessary right now to justify the high-end both with the assurance of continued worth on one side, as well as a place in which new expressions and techniques are being tried out on the other, therewith giving the customer a luxury unseen with regular apparel.