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Thread: Julius FW11

  1. #41
    kitsch killer Faust's Avatar
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    Interesting post, beardown, but I see one problem here. How do you tell a designer who, we must assume, has a genuine interest in a certain look that the look has run its course? It's like telling Trent Reznor, you know buddy, no one listens to industrial music anymore, maybe move on to R&B?
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  2. #42

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    First: Well-said Beardown..
    Second: Faust, I don't think BD is asking anyone to abandon their interests or means of expression. He's just honestly calling to question whether the results are really that interesting at the end of the day. Of course it's subjective, you obviously are into the Julius collection, but that doesn't diminish his point. I.E. You could totally disagree taste-wise, but it doesn't contradict what he's saying at all.-That despite being well-executed, intense, dark, luxurious and having all the trappings of things held dear, it just doesn't come across as a sincere, personally held, independently-arrived-at vision. It's just too easy to see this as a pastiche of other designers.. (I mean, look 6 is a gotdamn Diesel fencing jacket with a curtain over the shoulder!)
    Is the collection well done, yes. Beautiful, sure. Sincere?, maybe!? But it isn't without a doubt a clear, personally held vision. I see lots of great elements but few if any choices or decisions. That's all that's being called into question.
    I'm not naive enough to say that designers I admire create in vacuum and are absolutely original with no references to the past, but to me this is really more the work of a fan, collecting elements that he observes in his contemporaries. I'd go so far as to guess this is more a product of a team.. It's just too well-researched, aimed at a demographic and by the numbers.
    No offense!, just how I see it.
    Third: Why are we still up posting stuff about Paris fashion week. It's 2:30am in NY...Wait, it's only 8:30pm in Paris.. Oops.

  3. #43

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    8:30am in Paris
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  4. #44

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    oops: AM

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Faust View Post
    Interesting post, beardown, but I see one problem here. How do you tell a designer who, we must assume, has a genuine interest in a certain look that the look has run its course? It's like telling Trent Reznor, you know buddy, no one listens to industrial music anymore, maybe move on to R&B?
    That's a good analogy so I'll see if I can explain my opinion based on that. I'm not suggesting that Horikawa change genres at all; only that he's explored his 'vision' to the point where it feels repetitive and no longer a unique creation. Whether that's because other designers are doing what he did earlier or whether he is inspired by what the other designers are doing I'm not quite sure. But there's no doubt that it all intersects at a pretty disappointing plane as far as 'unique visions' go.

    If Trent Reznor kept putting out Pretty Hate Machine over and over and over, I'd suggest the same to him as an artist. But he had the talent and vision to uniquely explore varying approaches, even if he failed at times.

    I loved Pretty Hate Machine because even though other bands/people were doing industrial music, Trent created something that was personal and unique...less cold and sampled and typical. That was the 'vision' to take something that existed and make it his own.

    Later on, The Downward Spiral was a good album. Not a great album, but very solid and unique. Horikawa seems to be putting out The Downward Spiral over and over in a way even though other designers are also putting out their own versions of The Downward Spiral.

    That's all. I see him as a very talented, very influential designer who comes across to me as having lost some spark, vision or direction. As a designer, I have great respect for him...I'm a big fan. It's just that this line seems uninspired to me and that's a little disappointing. Clearly a lot of people like the pieces...and again, I agree it's a great presentation to be sure.

    But who wants to listen to the Downward Spiral when you can listen to Pretty Hate Machine?
    Quote Originally Posted by mizzar View Post
    Sorry for being kind of a dick to you.

  6. #46

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    really I'd like to think that no one but jarheads listen to those albums but obviously I'm wrong.... To me , and I saw trent opening for Jesus and Mary Chain before PHM really broke..actually I think he opened , then Gene Loves Jezebel then JAMC... that shit sucked then and it sucks now. I love Julius and in all likelihood I'll spend more of my money on his new stuff than pretty much everyone else including RO just because I love it and it fits me better than other designers in this realm.
    I think it's one of his strongest seasons yet w/ a lot of new elements and w/ his and RO strong showings I feel as happy as a little girl. I believe the cream is rising.

  7. #47

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    Beardown, always a fan of your comments but I think you got lost in the Reznor analogy here. At least i don't get it anymore.
    With regards to the collection, I really like it if only because it offers me something slightly different I can pair with an all Rick wardrobe.
    I don't mind the salad.
    Hi. I like your necklace. - It's actually a rape whistle, but the whistle part fell off.

  8. #48

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    And who wants to listen to pretty hate machine when for years before skinny puppy was making real, pure industrial-electronic music. Kind of like the designers in question. I am sorry but I don't see julius as any better than all saints in thoery, just a million times better in practice. I mean, there are silk insert trousers from spring that are a stitch forr stitch rip of exploder pants I own. That's a bit beyond inspiration. I get what he is going for but fail to see the need for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by beardown View Post
    That's a good analogy so I'll see if I can explain my opinion based on that. I'm not suggesting that Horikawa change genres at all; only that he's explored his 'vision' to the point where it feels repetitive and no longer a unique creation. Whether that's because other designers are doing what he did earlier or whether he is inspired by what the other designers are doing I'm not quite sure. But there's no doubt that it all intersects at a pretty disappointing plane as far as 'unique visions' go.

    If Trent Reznor kept putting out Pretty Hate Machine over and over and over, I'd suggest the same to him as an artist. But he had the talent and vision to uniquely explore varying approaches, even if he failed at times.

    I loved Pretty Hate Machine because even though other bands/people were doing industrial music, Trent created something that was personal and unique...less cold and sampled and typical. That was the 'vision' to take something that existed and make it his own.

    Later on, The Downward Spiral was a good album. Not a great album, but very solid and unique. Horikawa seems to be putting out The Downward Spiral over and over in a way even though other designers are also putting out their own versions of The Downward Spiral.

    That's all. I see him as a very talented, very influential designer who comes across to me as having lost some spark, vision or direction. As a designer, I have great respect for him...I'm a big fan. It's just that this line seems uninspired to me and that's a little disappointing. Clearly a lot of people like the pieces...and again, I agree it's a great presentation to be sure.

    But who wants to listen to the Downward Spiral when you can listen to Pretty Hate Machine?

  9. #49

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    Well I think that's a bit harsh kunk. To deny any originality in this one or in the work of Horikawa is, at least in my opinion, pretty much wrong. Like I've already said in my first post about the collection, I also see some stronger influences from Ann and Rick in some looks, but it's not pure imitation or anything like that.
    And I also can't agree on saying that something like PHM is not needed, because the core of the music is inspired by something else. Like with Julius there is some clear distinction, an evolution, an incorporation of something that already exists in the artist's/ designer's own vision.

    But that's coming from someone who came to appreciate fashion, because of labels like Julius, which have shown me in my late teens that fashion is beyond D&G and Louis Vuitton and also from someone who loves NIN.

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by kunk75 View Post
    And who wants to listen to pretty hate machine when for years before skinny puppy was making real, pure industrial-electronic music.
    Keep in mind that Julius isn't exactly a young brand. It's not like he suddenly popped up in the past couple years with this style.

  11. #51

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    ^no am well aware. I just see parallels between what he is doing and what reviled fast fashioners are doing.

  12. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrbeuys View Post
    Beardown, always a fan of your comments but I think you got lost in the Reznor analogy here. At least i don't get it anymore.
    With regards to the collection, I really like it if only because it offers me something slightly different I can pair with an all Rick wardrobe.
    I don't mind the salad.
    I was so drunk last night that I don't fully remember writing it but I am impressed with my spelling and grammar.

    Clearly it's a confusing little rant...I laughed as I re-read it today. I guess what it boils down to is that I feel like Julius as a brand is starting to feel like a band that plays the same hit song over and over again because it works. While I prefer artists that take chances, move forward and explore their vision.

    This is one of the problems with art as commodity; there becomes too much at stake financially to explore different areas when people expect certain things from you.

    But as kunk mentioned, what's the difference between All Saints copying other designers and Julius copying itself (or other designers) at this point other than the tailoring? Like I mentioned, I have respect for earlier seasons of Horikawa's work....I just find it much less creative and varied (ie: missing the element of experimentation) these days personally.

    I hear Faust's interpretation of what I wrote but I don't particularly see this as Horikawa's true vision. I think he's capable of much more but just appears to me to be spinning his wheels, so to speak. I could most definitely be wrong. It's just how it appears to me as an outsider.
    Quote Originally Posted by mizzar View Post
    Sorry for being kind of a dick to you.

  13. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by upsilonkng View Post
    really I'd like to think that no one but jarheads listen to those albums but obviously I'm wrong.... To me , and I saw trent opening for Jesus and Mary Chain before PHM really broke..actually I think he opened , then Gene Loves Jezebel then JAMC... that shit sucked then and it sucks now. I love Julius and in all likelihood I'll spend more of my money on his new stuff than pretty much everyone else including RO just because I love it and it fits me better than other designers in this realm.
    I think it's one of his strongest seasons yet w/ a lot of new elements and w/ his and RO strong showings I feel as happy as a little girl. I believe the cream is rising.

    I have absolutely no problem believing that someone who hated Pretty Hate Machine would absolutely love this season of Julius.

    So we agree on more than you think.
    Quote Originally Posted by mizzar View Post
    Sorry for being kind of a dick to you.

  14. #54

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    Wow.


    Those sneakers are ugly.
    Collection looks ok tho

  15. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by beardown View Post
    I have absolutely no problem believing that someone who hated Pretty Hate Machine would absolutely love this season of Julius.

    So we agree on more than you think.
    I grew up in the 80's and I was into industrial music then so when PHM came out it was pretty much just industrial for kroq people, not unlike Green Day when they broke big, punk for people who would never listen to punk.
    I do enjoy some of NIN's eps (broken comes to mind..lite ministry) though and I have a few friends that toured w/ him, I think he's well spoken of as far as being kind of nice for a person of his stature. I will tell you 2 things that will break your heart. On tour he works out in his dressing room w/ his trainers, and he brings seazoos w/ him and anytime there's a day off he goes jetskiing. That's a fact.
    Authenticity is something anybody can question. I really enjoy Horikawa's clothes and yes I see Rick in them for sure but I know that the Julius stuff fits me better because I'm an above average height asian dude which still puts me at 170cm and the Rick stuff is made for guys starting at 6 ft really. And it has a huge rock overtone which I also enjoy because of my background and it's also the work I do. I wouldn't wear Ann to a show but that's me. But I haven't been interested in Rick/Julius as long as you have so I may eat parts of my word eventually but for now..or 6 months from now, happiness will be bought.

  16. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by kunk75 View Post
    And who wants to listen to pretty hate machine when for years before skinny puppy was making real, pure industrial-electronic music. Kind of like the designers in question. I am sorry but I don't see julius as any better than all saints in thoery, just a million times better in practice. I mean, there are silk insert trousers from spring that are a stitch forr stitch rip of exploder pants I own. That's a bit beyond inspiration. I get what he is going for but fail to see the need for it.
    one similarity does not make them a copy machine. if you'd see this collection in person, you'd realise its nothing like the labels you are comparing it to. and I'm not placing it higher or lower when I say this, I'm just saying its not similar. while viewing every single piece in this collection, not once did Ann or Rick come to my mind.
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  17. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by upsilonkng View Post
    I will tell you 2 things that will break your heart. On tour he works out in his dressing room w/ his trainers, and he brings seazoos w/ him and anytime there's a day off he goes jetskiing. That's a fact.
    LOL...I actually know Trent and have worked with him about 2 years ago (in a non-music capacity.)

    But thanks though.

    Comparing NIN to Green Day pretty much says it all as far as I'm concerned. It seems like you need to boil things down to the lowest common denominator to express your opinions.
    People came out of the woodwork to work with him after they realized how he put PHM together and as a result, he worked with undoubtedly the top names in 'industrial' music, if legitimacy is your thing.

    All said, I think Pretty Hate Machine is one of the ten best albums ever laid down on tape, easily. But that's neither here nor there.

    I don't care if you don't agree with me about the Julius line. Consume until your blue in the face. These are my opinions. Don't take them so hard.
    Quote Originally Posted by mizzar View Post
    Sorry for being kind of a dick to you.

  18. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by beardown View Post
    I have absolutely no problem believing that someone who hated Pretty Hate Machine would absolutely love this season of Julius.

    So we agree on more than you think.
    Quote Originally Posted by beardown View Post
    LOL...I actually know Trent and have worked with him about 2 years ago (in a non-music capacity.)

    But thanks though.

    Comparing NIN to Green Day pretty much says it all as far as I'm concerned. It seems like you need to boil things down to the lowest common denominator to express your opinions.
    People came out of the woodwork to work with him after they realized how he put PHM together and as a result, he worked with undoubtedly the top names in 'industrial' music, if legitimacy is your thing.

    All said, I think Pretty Hate Machine is one of the ten best albums ever laid down on tape, easily. But that's neither here nor there.

    I don't care if you don't agree with me about the Julius line. Consume until your blue in the face. These are my opinions. Don't take them so hard.
    don't want to turn this into a NIN thread.. I don't take it hard, I think we like different aspics(aspects) of Julius and perhaps that part you like is gone and the parts i like are still there.
    As far as people working w/ Trent I don't doubt it, but when you can work w/ one of the biggest bands in the world you do it... Albini worked w/ Bush... Bush... Bush... we are all idealist but Albini is pretty fuckin extreme and he worked w/ BUSH. Does that validate Bush? hmmm
    common theme and I have nothing against it, I was almost the touring guitarist for a huge band and I would've done it against everything I believe in because at the end of the day you are still playing some form of music and getting paid like you've never been.
    ps I always hated the cargo, baggy , military surplus side of Julius so I am super happy to see that go for this season. There's no way to make cargo cool for me, it's old navy and military surplus and guys that own guns or minivans that's it. for me...
    Last edited by upsilonkng; 01-23-2011 at 12:09 AM.

  19. #59

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    i prefer tomato aspic

    [QUOTE=upsilonkng;284375]I think we like different aspics of Julius and perhaps that part you like is gone and the parts i like are still there.

  20. #60

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    As a huge fan of the Julius line, since I spend a lot of time looking for futuristic punk and industrial clothing, I have to say that I'm very into the new collection. The old stuff is fantastic as well, though. I see them as different parts of a whole. The older seasons are the underbelly, the seedy, worn, and distressed side of the cyberpunk world that I envision. This new season is for walking the public streets, trying to fit in with the rest of the crowd, but still maintaining that streetwise edge that allows you to recognize each other as being serious operators.

    More than any other SZ brand, Julius really speaks to me, and I'm very much trying to get more of it in my closet. This season will probably mark the first time I buy pieces at retail, because I'll be saving for it well in advance.

    My wardrobe contains a lot of brands, because the specific style I'm looking for has never been nailed down for me as solidly as it is with Julius. Lip Service has done a few collections that I really liked, but their quality has gone significantly downhill, and brands like Cryoflesh, Cyberdog, and Plastik Wrap don't have cohesive visions, relying too much on prints, bright colors, and tech fabrics.

    While everything is of course up to the individual's taste and interpretation (all art is subjective, after all), to me this collection fits the rest of the Julius line to a T, and I think it will be even more fantastic when combined with the older seasons.

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