My original post opened with a dialog I had with a friend. There was some controversial and irrelevant substance in the discussion, so I've chosen to parcel out some important points for the matter of this thread. Page breaks represent major redactions.
[---]
3:26pm
try drawing a picture and making notes. shulgin did I think
[You]
3:27pm
i’ve been keeping a journal actually
[---]
3:27pm
ever read any Jung ?
[You]
3:27pm
no
[---]
3:28pm
he’s big on keeping journals, especially of strange experiences and dreams
__________________________________________________ __________
[---]
4:00pm
[You]
4:01pm
thank you, i’m going to need to study that so that i can catalogue my own thoughts better next time. at any rate, I’m picturing this sort of Id which is a part of the mind that can think to itself without the limits of language on itself. it's difficult to translate and describe this process with language.
[---]
4:04pm
it might be less frustrating for you if you tried to communicate them using other media. pictures etc..
__________________________________________________ __________
[You]
4:26pm
i’m seeing something very deep behind the concept of god thinking or existing on a plane that we “cannot comprehend”. there’s sort of a frontier that a mind can keep working towards [...] i mean i’m picturing id as a sort of frontier that we can trawl for ideas like we would trawl a physical frontier for gold or oil
[---]
4:30pm
is it personal? or a collective resource?
[You]
4:30pm
i don’t know. “god", “frontier”, etc. is something that we think about in ways that generate new ideas and i think that’s what i was getting at when i mentioned god earlier. but i’m having trouble making the connection - actually, conveying the connection. I have the connection made very clearly in my head. i can think about god, or this id, or any concept, in a way that helps me understand other concepts i mean, there’s things about god or id that don’t make logical sense, right? but in trying to catalogue them you figure something else out.
[---]
4:38pm
we have logos and mythos. two ways of thinking. I think you’re describing mythos
[You]
4:38pm
what is mythos?
[---]
4:41pm
well logos is conscious logical thought. mythos is it’s opposite. when you reach conclusions without having neat steps
__________________________________________________ __________
[---]
4:53pm
when was the last time you met somebody smarter than you ?
I’ve met plenty of people more intelligent than me. the tend to come across as thinking with more clarity and precision
[You]
5:06pm
i’m talking about understanding vague concepts here
[Graham Innocent]
5:06pm
I think that’s true within loose bands of intellect, but some concepts are really beyond some people. think about somebody severely learning impaired, IQ of 60 or whatever, imagine trying to get them to understand the concept of ‘political satire’. I think they’d just be unable to understand what was happening and get really bored really quickly
__________________________________________________ __________
[You]
5:08pm
i didn’t mean to imply that people like that simply haven’t spent enough time pondering concepts to get them. but, say with economics, you and i both have a decent grasp of it as a concept. what i’m wondering is whether or not average people are unable to wrap their minds wholly around it. that is if their mind could never fully understand something or whether it’s that they haven’t put enough time into learning about it
[---]
5:10pm
I think an average person could given sufficient time and enthusiasm
__________________________________________________ __________
[---]
5:11pm
I think an average person would have to study quite hard and just rote memorise bits before they saw certain things fit together though. but they’d get it if they cared enough
3:26pm
try drawing a picture and making notes. shulgin did I think
[You]
3:27pm
i’ve been keeping a journal actually
[---]
3:27pm
ever read any Jung ?
[You]
3:27pm
no
[---]
3:28pm
he’s big on keeping journals, especially of strange experiences and dreams
__________________________________________________ __________
[---]
4:00pm
[You]
4:01pm
thank you, i’m going to need to study that so that i can catalogue my own thoughts better next time. at any rate, I’m picturing this sort of Id which is a part of the mind that can think to itself without the limits of language on itself. it's difficult to translate and describe this process with language.
[---]
4:04pm
it might be less frustrating for you if you tried to communicate them using other media. pictures etc..
__________________________________________________ __________
[You]
4:26pm
i’m seeing something very deep behind the concept of god thinking or existing on a plane that we “cannot comprehend”. there’s sort of a frontier that a mind can keep working towards [...] i mean i’m picturing id as a sort of frontier that we can trawl for ideas like we would trawl a physical frontier for gold or oil
[---]
4:30pm
is it personal? or a collective resource?
[You]
4:30pm
i don’t know. “god", “frontier”, etc. is something that we think about in ways that generate new ideas and i think that’s what i was getting at when i mentioned god earlier. but i’m having trouble making the connection - actually, conveying the connection. I have the connection made very clearly in my head. i can think about god, or this id, or any concept, in a way that helps me understand other concepts i mean, there’s things about god or id that don’t make logical sense, right? but in trying to catalogue them you figure something else out.
[---]
4:38pm
we have logos and mythos. two ways of thinking. I think you’re describing mythos
[You]
4:38pm
what is mythos?
[---]
4:41pm
well logos is conscious logical thought. mythos is it’s opposite. when you reach conclusions without having neat steps
__________________________________________________ __________
[---]
4:53pm
when was the last time you met somebody smarter than you ?
I’ve met plenty of people more intelligent than me. the tend to come across as thinking with more clarity and precision
[You]
5:06pm
i’m talking about understanding vague concepts here
[Graham Innocent]
5:06pm
I think that’s true within loose bands of intellect, but some concepts are really beyond some people. think about somebody severely learning impaired, IQ of 60 or whatever, imagine trying to get them to understand the concept of ‘political satire’. I think they’d just be unable to understand what was happening and get really bored really quickly
__________________________________________________ __________
[You]
5:08pm
i didn’t mean to imply that people like that simply haven’t spent enough time pondering concepts to get them. but, say with economics, you and i both have a decent grasp of it as a concept. what i’m wondering is whether or not average people are unable to wrap their minds wholly around it. that is if their mind could never fully understand something or whether it’s that they haven’t put enough time into learning about it
[---]
5:10pm
I think an average person could given sufficient time and enthusiasm
__________________________________________________ __________
[---]
5:11pm
I think an average person would have to study quite hard and just rote memorise bits before they saw certain things fit together though. but they’d get it if they cared enough
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