random fashion thoughts

[stagename]

... art can still be trendy. Cubism etc. is generally called a movement. I think that the difference here with a trend is the "normativized and hierarhically ordered ends", a general structure that people who do that kind of stuff aspire to do, and that allow others to put it under a term such as cubism. A trend, at least ot me, is more like, "oh pink is en vogue this month".

[t3hg0suazn]

I think of SZ and avant-garde fashion as an institution of its own, and there are certainly trends within this institution. There are also more large scale movements within this framework as well, though this seems harder to define and identify, to me.

[k3mist]

whats avant garde fashion?

[stagename]

The avant-garde is usually defined as innovative, experimental work removed from existing (market) structures and norms (which allows for this experiemntal work to emerge.

See Clement Greenberg & Theodor Adorno

[t3hg0suazn]

The quote that's always stuck with me is:
"ONE USES THE WORD „AVANT-GARDE“ TOO EASILY. „AVANT-GARDE“ IS ADVANCED AND INDIVIDUAL THINKING. THE EXACT TRANSLATION FROM FRENCH MEANS „BEFORE THE CROWD OR THE MASS“, THEREFORE IT CAN NEVER BE TRENDY NOR FASHIONABLE. --Carol Christian Poell

[zamb]

whats avant garde fashion?

anything worn that looks ridiculous to the masses...........

[lowrey]

whats avant garde fashion?

do you mean AVANT GUARDE HIGHEST FASHION? if so:

"NOW NOW this is it people, these are the brands no one fucking knows and people are like WTF. they do everything by hand in their freaking secret basement and shit."

[LelandJ]

Was listed as 100 linen but turns out to be at least 50 or 60 cotton and true color is more a light fecal green. Not sure I'll be trying Barena ever again.

[k3mist]

Maybe I wasn't clear but I know the definition of avant garde. Was hoping for examples. Too many people use the term to describe the style here but surely it isn't avant garde?

[Lohikaarme]

whats avant garde fashion?

Just means whatever isn't the norm. Generally avant garde is seen as innovative of experimental, though those words are quite loaded.

[stagename]

Just means whatever isn't the norm. Generally avant garde is seen as innovative of experimental, though those words are quite loaded.

I disagree with this. Whatever isn't the norm could be rebellious, quirky, passé, etc., without being avant-garde. If you want to use such a wide definition, I think "before its time" or "before bieng tasteful" would be more accurate, at least etymologically (avant: before; garde/gustos/taste; before taste/before being tasteful).

Historically, in painting, it was used to refered to a group of painters who were going against academic art/what was taught at the acadmies des arts, so here the term was used partly for rebels, albeit I wouldn't just conflate the two terms.

The term was then better defined in the first half of the 20th century and associated with industrialism, the masses and mass production, and the emergence of a new class of literate yet ignorant consumers. I'd argued that Greenberg's definition of kitsch evolved into what we consider to be consumerism, which could partly explain why movements located outside of markets can be perceived as avant-garde.

[Lohikaarme]

I disagree with this. Whatever isn't the norm could be rebellious, quirky, passé, etc., without being avant-garde. If you want to use such a wide definition, I think "before its time" or "before bieng tasteful" would be more accurate, at least etymologically (avant: before; garde/gustos/taste; before taste/before being tasteful).

Historically, in painting, it was used to refered to a group of painters who were going against academic art/what was taught at the acadmies des arts, so here the term was used partly for rebels, albeit I wouldn't just conflate the two terms.

The term was then better defined in the first half of the 20th century and associated with industrialism, the masses and mass production, and the emergence of a new class of literate yet ignorant consumers. I'd argued that Greenberg's definition of kitsch evolved into what we consider to be consumerism, which could partly explain why movements located outside of markets can be perceived as avant-garde.

Interesting. Couple questions/points though. How would avant-garde apply to us (or at least this forum)? Simply because we know about niche brands doesn't stop us from being consumerists? In fact, if anything, these avant-garde brands are creating a new consumerist model based on rich people looking for status symbols, like athletes or celebrities who have stylists that give them a bunch of clothing all the time without any consideration (not like that's necessarily bad).

Avant-garde makes sense as something "before its time" however what would we call a brand (i.e. Rick Owens) if the norm adopts the look? If he were to continue pumping out his standard designs, along with everyone else, we could call this designer innovative and/or avant-garde for his time but certainly not in this hypothetical future?

Certain things can be called "avant-garde" like men's heeled shoes, but that's not really "before" anything, as such was the fashion centuries ago. Currently, we might call that avant-garde though.

I do see the major flaw in my first definition though. Red pants aren't avant-garde just because we like blue jeans .

[trentk]

no way in hell would I ever wear the upper half of this alone, but it could work with a thin formfitting white RO cashmere cotton top underneath. All grey or all black would work too ... possibly black with grey RO top or white with grey RO top as well. Since a shirt would be worn under, it might be best for the (multilayered) outergarment to be of such a weight that it is in between a top and sweater.



Also, some designer really needs to design a collection inspired by these two (dynooo & sentinel) albums. Would still be sz-ish, but would probably stretch the paradigm into something new. (Click images to listen).

[stagename]

How would avant-garde apply to us (or at least this forum)?

It doesn't, at least in my perspective, as we are consumers. If we were a group of designer deconstructing menswear in our designs, it might. B

Avant-garde makes sense as something "before its time" however what would we call a brand (i.e. Rick Owens) if the norm adopts the look?

I'd say an early Gareth Pugh was much more avant-garde than Rick ever was. If the avant-garde becomes the dominant movement it is not avant-garde anymore ...

Certain things can be called "avant-garde" like men's heeled shoes

I'd place a body of work rather than single articles as avantg-arde.

This is obviously my own understanding of hte term and is subject to discussion.

[Faust]

whats avant garde fashion?

Fashion that doesn't suck.