random fashion thoughts

[gregor]

As for the Quartz article, while the author provides a good overview of "artisanal" brands, i felt like he lumped them all into "heavily distressed shit with an overlock stitch that will make you feel like a badass". I think that's a pretty narrow minded view of what something like ma+ has to offer...

this got to me as well. especially at the end, and the whole spiel about feeling better than someone else. it's a nice article, but a rather glib summary and look at avant-garde/artisanal brands like carol, ma+, or even bossert. it does pay ample tribute to the awe and process, which i respect and feel is respectful enough, but by a similar token, it does really only scratch the surface in most cases.

still a good read, though, and good for anyone who doesn't already know anything about the work that goes into the pieces.

[zamb]

a good read, though, and good for anyone who doesn't already know anything about the work that goes into the pieces.

but do people really care about this aspect?
I am increasingly inclined to believe that the audience that genuinely respect craftsmanship and a high level of thought in design has become less and less.

I also think that even some of the buyers who carry these brands do not give a crap about the authenticity and integrity of the work itself.......Ultimately I am hoping that this is just a lull in things, or that their will be a reawakening as i almost feel across the board that the enthusiasm and appreciation for artisan work that existed 3-6 years ago has significantly waned

[gregor]

but do people really care about this aspect?
I am increasingly inclined to believe that the audience that genuinely respect craftsmanship and a high level of though in design has become less and less.

I also think that even some of the buyers who carry these brands do not give a crap about the authenticity and integrity of the work itself.......Ultimately I am hoping that this is just a lull in things, or that their will be a reawakening as i almost fell across the board that the enthusiasm and appreciation for artisan work that existed 3-6 years ago has significantly waned

its true, and you're totally right in saying that demographic is in major decline. i remember faust saying something about sz being the old guard, something that rings rather true now that you mention that. the group of people who just don't give a shit is growing, which is rather sad.

there has to be an eventual renaissance, once the crowd currently riding the wave of artisanal creation will dissipate and move onto the "next big thing".

[imblurredout]

I feel like this problem is caused primarily by the major fall in brand loyalty. People don't care who makes it, as long as it's flashy and speaks for itself.

[wildinthewoods]

its true, and you're totally right in saying that demographic is in major decline. i remember faust saying something about sz being the old guard, something that rings rather true now that you mention that. the group of people who just don't give a shit is growing, which is rather sad.

there has to be an eventual renaissance, once the crowd currently riding the wave of artisanal creation will dissipate and move onto the "next big thing".

I disagree.

I think there are still lots of people interested in 'artisanal' clothes, just not so much into some of the brands we discuss here frequently such as CCP and CDiem.

There is a new guard of artisans popping up, younger designers and artists such as Amy Revier, Alice Waese, Jan Jan Van Essche, Daniel Andresen and others. Perhaps the interest in those older brands has faded because how difficult it is to find information online about them and how expensive their garments can be (not to mention the fact that ccp hasn't released anything new in a long time and cdiem is dead).

I can't speak for others, but I can say for myself that I really enjoy being able to see details of the work and their process on their websites, social media etc. Even Guidi who have been doing what they do for a long time have jumped up on social media, allowing a back view into their factory, etc. I think this speaks to people, it definitely speaks to me.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that perhaps the demographic is not declining, just shifting. People my age becoming interested in artisanal fashion also grew up with the internet, and for better or worse, expect some level of online accessibility from the brands they follow and support.

[gregor]

I disagree.

I think there are still lots of people interested in 'artisanal' clothes, just not so much into some of the brands we discuss here frequently such as CCP and CDiem.

There is a new guard of artisans popping up, younger designers and artists such as Amy Revier, Alice Waese, Jan Jan Van Essche, Daniel Andresen and others. Perhaps the interest in those older brands has faded because how difficult it is to find information online about them and how expensive their garments can be (not to mention the fact that ccp hasn't released anything new in a long time and cdiem is dead).

I can't speak for others, but I can say for myself that I really enjoy being able to see details of the work and their process on their websites, social media etc. Even Guidi who have been doing what they do for a long time have jumped up on social media, allowing a back view into their factory, etc. I think this speaks to people, it definitely speaks to me.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that perhaps the demographic is not declining, just shifting. People my age becoming interested in artisanal fashion also grew up with the internet, and for better or worse, expect some level of online accessibility from the brands they follow and support.

i think a shift is a akin to decline, at least in practical effect on a forum like sz. the word artisanal is also thrown around rather callously.

i didn't mention cdiem or ccp for a reason, because you're right on that count. it's timeless and classic and all, but even when it comes to people like deepti, bossert, ma (reo not +), and company, it still comes down to less concern for the process of it all, and the minutiae surrounding a name and piece. i think you're right in some form to say that the new breed of artisans is appealing to people of our internet generation (of which i am a part), though i find the passion is less and less pure than with those who have had more of a connection to the genre of design.

accessibility is on the rise, but i think that's a double edged sword, as well. there is no need for someone like carol or maurizio to pander to the youth as the youth market for their work isn't really what they want or need, i feel like.

it's good and bad, and you're right to bring up said counterpoints, because though i'm not in total agreement with you, i think it's a mixed bag as far as the way all of it is heading.

[gregor]

And yet Deepti (like Harnden, Dawson, etc.) refuses to have her stuff sold online.

Not enough respect for Taichi here either-- a recent designer with a quite genuinely "artisanal" and a frequently innovative approach.

Andresen continues to be underrated on SZ.

There's always a decline, if you look for it. Part of the problem is that these narratives focus on the past and our differences from it; so we look for advances always relative to what "advances" looked like back then. Expecting decline, it becomes very difficult to even notice the opposite when it occurs, since we were expecting it to have a different name/face/attitude.

i think the motives of the buyer is more the crux of discussion than the designer. i think the

i won't speak on what designers are good and bad because practically all of the designers thus mentioned are good at their craft.

i suppose it's true that it's a constant, but it also depends what side you're on. it's not my goal to mitigate the opposite of what i'm trying to voice, but i suppose it's true that's a facet of not really acknowledging it properly.

i've just found in personal experience that people care less and less about the process and craft so much as the name and status.

[zamb]

As a student of fashion for a very long time, there is no question in my mind that there is a serious decline in both the appreciation of, and also the output of many artisanal brands. truth be told, without naming names many of the designers considered "artisanal" are not but that's another story altogether.
On the other side of the coin, I think one could argue that there is no single definition of what "artisanal" even mean.

There was a time between 2002 and 2006 when every season I used to go to Barneys, I used to go there ti look at the work of designers like Dries, Ann, Yohji, Richard Tyler, Chalayan, McQueen etc. there is no question in my mind that the quality of those items then, do not exist in many designer collections today. there was a level of workmanship and an attention to detail that is completely lost in todays fashion market.

It is no different in the Artisanal Market, some of the newer designers coming out do not know how to make clothes, and do not care to learn either. Social Media and promotion through instagram and all the other mediums have become the route to success (fame)
One of the reasons why i respect a designer like Carol is that whether one likes it or not, no one can accuse him if cutting corners, of not doing the necessary research, of not working out his concepts to their logical ends.......I feel like more of that needs to be done.

In a way, thinking about it, maybe its the designers, myself included, maybe we have failed to keep the attention of the audience/ clients that we seek. maybe the decline in appreciation is a direct result in the decline of our output.........that really might be something to consider

[julian_doe]

As a student of fashion for a very long time, there is no question in my mind that there is a serious decline in both the appreciation of, and also the output of many artisanal brands. truth be told, without naming names many of the designers considered "artisanal" are not but that's another story altogether.
On the other side of the coin, I think one could argue that there is no single definition of what "artisanal" even mean.

There was a time between 2002 and 2006 when every season I used to go to Barneys, I used to go there ti look at the work of designers like Dries, Ann, Yohji, Richard Tyler, Chalayan, McQueen etc. there is no question in my mind that the quality of those items then, do not exist in many designer collections today. there was a level of workmanship and an attention to detail that is completely lost in todays fashion market.

It is no different in the Artisanal Market, some of the newer designers coming out do not know how to make clothes, and do not care to learn either. Social Media and promotion through instagram and all the other mediums have become the route to success (fame)
One of the reasons why i respect a designer like Carol is that whether one likes it or not, no one can accuse him if cutting corners, of not doing the necessary research, of not working out his concepts to their logical ends.......I feel like more of that needs to be done.

In a way, thinking about it, maybe its the designers, myself included, maybe we have failed to keep the attention of the audience/ clients that we seek. maybe the decline in appreciation is a direct result in the decline of our output.........that really might be something to consider

Great post, and that is a concept which had not crossed my mind. Great designers who don't jeopardize the artisanship of their craft, like Carol and (honestly) yourself, still exist and are still creating beautiful garments. However, some falter in their marketing approach (for better or for worse) and thus are not as highly recognized as other designers. Nicolas Andreas Taralis comes to mind, as a lot of his work is beautifully crafted, and he has the training and experience to be a great luxury designer. However, I feel that many got bored with the large amounts of tailoring he concentrated on, and his lack of focus on "street" wear. During the peak of his line, Rick Owens, Tisci, and others did the contrary, and focused on online marketing and trendier street garments which quickly gained more popularity. Now, Taralis is almost entirely forgotten.

[wildinthewoods]

It is no different in the Artisanal Market, some of the newer designers coming out do not know how to make clothes, and do not care to learn either. Social Media and promotion through instagram and all the other mediums have become the route to success (fame)
One of the reasons why i respect a designer like Carol is that whether one likes it or not, no one can accuse him if cutting corners, of not doing the necessary research, of not working out his concepts to their logical ends.......I feel like more of that needs to be done.

I don't know if you're responding to my post specifically, but to say that any of the people I mentioned "don't know how to make clothes" would be a tad ignorant. I know that the term "artisanal" is horrendously overused and abused and means almost nothing these days, but there are plenty of amazingly talented young designers out there creating interesting work.

I agree with your comment that many people use the Internet and social media for fame and don't care about the high quality implied by the term "artisanal". But don't dismiss all the young designers out there due to the flaws of a few ambitious fashion school kids on Instagram with too much money and too little taste.

[wildinthewoods]

Oh and I'm not implying that designers HAVE to be active on social media or online. I respect Carol and Rei Kawabuko and Martin Margiela and all the others who choose to keep their personal lives private. However I think it's counterintuitive when brands like Deepti try and keep their work entirely undocumented and completely removed from the internet. I think it's a tad pretentious to be honest. I mean, one of the main reasons I joined this forum is because I love seeing archival photos of beautiful and rare garments that members have posted.

[zamb]

If you know me well enough, you would know that I am one of the greatest supporters of young(er) designers

defending many from unfair criticism, requesting that they be given time to develop their own voice and even being a source of advice and help to many. i have even gone as far as to do what others have done for me in the past by making recommendations to stores on some younger designers behalf.

All of that being said. I KNOW what I am saying and stand by my statements. i was not referring specifically to your post, but have sen enough to know exactly what I am talking about......

I don't know if you're responding to my post specifically, but to say that any of the people I mentioned "don't know how to make clothes" would be a tad ignorant. I know that the term "artisanal" is horrendously overused and abused and means almost nothing these days, but there are plenty of amazingly talented young designers out there creating interesting work.

I agree with your comment that many people use the Internet and social media for fame and don't care about the high quality implied by the term "artisanal". But don't dismiss all the young designers out there due to the flaws of a few ambitious fashion school kids on Instagram with too much money and too little taste.

[HugAndWug]

I think it's a tad pretentious to be honest..

Heaven forbid a few designers out of hundreds choose to do things differently.

[Faust]

but do people really care about this aspect?
I am increasingly inclined to believe that the audience that genuinely respect craftsmanship and a high level of thought in design has become less and less.

I also think that even some of the buyers who carry these brands do not give a crap about the authenticity and integrity of the work itself.......Ultimately I am hoping that this is just a lull in things, or that their will be a reawakening as i almost feel across the board that the enthusiasm and appreciation for artisan work that existed 3-6 years ago has significantly waned

Agreed on all accounts. Vertice being the prime offender. Fakest store ever. And that comment in the end is beyond idiotic. I discussed the article at length yesterday, and actually it's a piece of shit, except Karlo's input, which is always on point. "Journalists" should stop interviewing shopkeepers altogether, for obvious reasons. The likes of Karlo, who not only know what they are talking about but also know how to articulate it, are very few and far between.

[Faust]

its true, and you're totally right in saying that demographic is in major decline. i remember faust saying something about sz being the old guard, something that rings rather true now that you mention that. the group of people who just don't give a shit is growing, which is rather sad.

there has to be an eventual renaissance, once the crowd currently riding the wave of artisanal creation will dissipate and move onto the "next big thing".

No doubt about it!