random fashion thoughts

[Faust]

Leopold bossert is the main offender, although to call his initial start a copy of Ccp is a bit fallacious. He made custom pants, with the options to make them any way you wanted. Sure he had options to make them like ccp, but is that his fault or the fault of people who had him make the knockoffs? Should no one be allowed to use the same methods Ccp uses? Tbh I'm not sure what the big difference between him and a1923 is though, both make items extremely similar to other designers and yet only he gets a bad name. And a1923 makes direct rips on Ccp footwear, no choices or excuses just copies of Ccp year after year.

Another brand rife with similarities (that I'm not sure if layers carries) is bergfabel, although you could claim both they and harnden merely copy turn of the century workwear. Slight differences in their products but at what level of similarity does it become copying? Similar things could be asked of carpe diem and all the offshoots, what level of creative input excuses direct pattern usage (m.a+). So few designers actually have novel clothing (such as inaisce or harnden), are we splitting hairs as to how derivative you can be before it becomes a negative?

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Fit magna cades - why are lower prices inherently bad? If the item can be made to the same standards for less it seems odd to demand that people pay more or immune their character. When designers such as Ccp raise prices without any changes it seems odd to say that lower price is budget, when the lower price is in line with the original price. Maybe this is a reaction to a void in the market, where you can get extremely similar quality for half the price.

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If a brand is being copied I see it as an indictment of their work. They were stagnant for long enough that some one else was able to not only duplicate their process but also sometimes improve on it (see a1923 and Ccp vs alterei). Sure the initial design was successful but they didn't modify or improve it. It's similar to tech companies and innovation - just because someone did something first shouldn't mean that they are the only ones to ever do it. Later products from competitors will incorporate the successful portions with slight modifications to presumably improve the item.

That's a lot of well-packaged nonsense that skirts the issue FMC poses. Have you considered a career in politics?

FMC is not alluding to designers that take an aesthetic and filter it through their own vision (Paul Harnden), but of those "designers" that make virtually direct copies of a clearly defined aesthetic (Bossert, Bergfabel and 100 brands that make long black tees). These are not designers because, well, they do not design. They copy an already clearly-defined aesthetic. They do not add anything to fashion's body of work. Lower price point than becomes the only thing they can compete on.

[TriggerDiscipline]

That's a lot of well-packaged nonsense that skirts the issue FMC poses. Have you considered a career in politics?

FMC is not alluding to designers that take an aesthetic and filter it through their own vision (Paul Harnden), but of those "designers" that make virtually direct copies of a clearly defined aesthetic (Bossert, Bergfabel and 100 brands that make long black tees). These are not designers because, well, they do not design. They copy an already clearly-defined aesthetic. They do not add anything to fashion's body of work. Lower price point than becomes the only thing they can compete on.

where is the lower price point for augusta or even bossert, its just as expensive as the other designs.

I still don't comprehend why price point is a discussion factor.

[petricor]

These are not designers because, well, they do not design. They copy an already clearly-defined aesthetic. They do not add anything to fashion's body of work. Lower price point than becomes the only thing they can compete on.

these statements are true from an individual-centric view of what constitutes "fashion's body of work"--a view for which the construct of intellectual "property" is crucial.

[Faust]

these statements are true from an individual-centric view of what constitutes "fashion's body of work"--a view for which the construct of intellectual "property" is crucial.

lolwut?

[zamb]

"good artists borrow, great artists steal."
--Pablo, Diego, José, Francisco de Paula, Juan Nepomuceno, Maria de los Remedios, Cipriano de la Santisima Trinidad a.k.a. Picasso

"When it actually comes to the designing, people all want to throw it away and say, "I've got to do something different." I taught fashion, and I started off getting students to copy things." v. westwood

just saying this thing could be argued both ways.

there would be no "trends" in fashion if designers didn't copy/borrow/steal/rip-off each other--think of it as a memetic theory of beauty (see Foster Gage, "Etiologies of Beauty")

It is teachers like you that are a part of the problem. instead of teaching students to express themselves through their own unique viewpoint, you teach them to copy and replicate..........

I had teachers like you when i was in College, they hated me.........now they want me to come and give "speeches" I have yet to accept for fear I might make them look stupid in front of the class.

[zamb]

where is the lower price point for augusta or even bossert, its just as expensive as the other designs.

I still don't comprehend why price point is a discussion factor.

I am not going to get into a discussion calling names of designers, but if I may say so, a designer offering copies of other designers work at higher prices is an exception and not the normal way Knockoffs work.
Its usually a matter of providing a garment similar in look, most of the time of inferior materials, but saving tons of Money because the copyist has spent no time on design c and product development but simply copies something that is already a surefire success.

[TriggerDiscipline]

I but if I may say so, a designer offering copies of other designers work at higher prices is an exception and not the normal way Knockoffs work.

okay sure, but in this world things are just as expensive as the "real" things.

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as for the long black tee argument faust brought up, BBS _7 and RO all make long black tees, they all make "pods" etc.



why cant there just be an agreement of the possibility that these are just designers bouncing ideas off each other (whether they want to admit it or not)?


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by the way the idea a knockoff is being discussed in this thread, then TLC should be on that list as well(especially if price is a discussion point ), so what is authentic then?

[zamb]

the hallmark that separates an "original" designer from one who is a knock off artist is a designer who presents a unique and definable aesthetic rather than simply referencing another's ideas of creating line for line replica of someone else's work


Ricks aesthetic is definitively his, and something he has worked to create over an extended period of time

Carol's aesthetic and his offerings are uniquely his and there is a distinct philosophy and methodology behind his work.

I have no problem with designers referencing other designers, but if you are going to do that, it should not be the main thrust of your work, nor should it be done where one cannot discern between your own (different) way of using an idea/ technique when compared to the designer you are referencing.

All in all, to me its just lazy to simply want to copy someone else's work rather than trying to put some effort into developing your own.

okay sure, but in this world things are just as expensive as the "real" things.

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as for the long black tee argument faust brought up, BBS _7 and RO all make long black tees, they all make "pods" etc.



why cant there just be an agreement of the possibility that these are just designers bouncing ideas off each other (whether they want to admit it or not)?


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by the way the idea a knockoff is being discussed in this thread, then TLC should be on that list as well(especially if price is a discussion point ), so what is authentic then?

[newp]

I can't get rid of the vibe we had almost the same discussion around 2 years ago when his 'brand' appeared on SZ for the first time.

The sad fact this person himself used to be a member of SZ and sufu communities so some posts like this one from him are downright disappointing when you consider what happened next.

Being proud to source the same fabric as CCP does a bit later only added some insult to injury. I really think it's time for him to move on or stop trying to work for fashion industry altogether.

[Nickefuge]

"When it actually comes to the designing, people all want to throw it away and say, "I've got to do something different." I taught fashion, and I started off getting students to copy things." v. westwood

Guys, I think he´s not a teacher, he just forgot the quotation mark at the beginning of the sentence.

[Shucks]

Guys, I think he´s not a teacher, he just forgot the quotation mark at the beginning of the sentence.

that's pretty sloppy for a teacher.

[Gerber]

That's a lot of well-packaged nonsense that skirts the issue FMC poses. Have you considered a career in politics?

FMC is not alluding to designers that take an aesthetic and filter it through their own vision (Paul Harnden), but of those "designers" that make virtually direct copies of a clearly defined aesthetic (Bossert, Bergfabel and 100 brands that make long black tees). These are not designers because, well, they do not design. They copy an already clearly-defined aesthetic. They do not add anything to fashion's body of work. Lower price point than becomes the only thing they can compete on.

Wait. Arent Augustas 1923 copies (i.e Derbies) even more expensive then the original? Given almost all pieces, copied derbies or even the guidi hiking boots he copied.

That's the first brand to have a 1:1 copy even higher priced then the original. And it still sells. So I guess price is not the only point why people buy it. Given A1923 it's also the fact that people rather want their shoes fast instead of waiting 1-2 years for the same CCP color and shape.

[Faust]

A1923 is an anomaly, I'll grant you that

[delicious_not]

not sure how i feel about the news that kva is shutting down his label...

somehow krisvanassche was the first "luxury" brand for me, i remember trying on the clothes in a local department store thinking something like "this is so special, so dope", i still remember that coat... (by that time i didn't know i'll be buying full price rick robes 5-6 years later )

and kva a/w 2011 is my fav season EVER. but lately he's been doing something i'd qualify as "hm/zara for rich kids", i can't even remember when was the last time i wanted to buy something...

so yeah, maybe it's a good move actually. i hope he'll return, though.

[PurpleJesuss]

fwiw he is still creative director at Dior Homme so it's not like he is going away completely. I think it's a good move anyways. His work at Dior is stronger imo compared what he's been doing with his own label. I wasn't a fan of either, but hopefully this change will entice better DH collections in the future (fingers crossed).