Thread: random fashion thoughts

  1. #4781

    Default

    God yes wtf is this outfit, epitomises well what the guy really is about.

  2. #4782

    Default

    I am not sure if anyone else feels this, but...

    I feel about "fashion" the same way I feel about music lately. I find myself seeking old Majority Rule records and books by Alexis Marshall as opposed to trying to find substance in new bands/"artists".

    I really can't understand why Greg Lauren or "New Carpe Diem" have had any kind of success...

    To ve honest, I am starting to feel that age has a lot to do with it. I feel that the years when Hedi was at Dior Homme and CCP ruled the underworld were incredible. And that...nothing lately has that same passionate punch delivered.

    Is it because I am getting old? Had I been born in the 70's would I be yearning for OG HL with the same passion? Or rather, is my thirst for quality subtanciated and is taste really going to shit?

  3. #4783

    Default

    Lol, a small example...

    I fucking HATE the new DRKSHDW label.

  4. #4784

    Default

    I was born in the 70s and I have been yearning for OG Lang since 2005.
    You're just old. As am I.
    Hi. I like your necklace. - It's actually a rape whistle, but the whistle part fell off.

  5. #4785

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mrbeuys View Post
    I was born in the 70s and I have been yearning for OG Lang since 2005.
    You're just old. As am I.
    Hahaha, thank you for the clarification.

    "I guess this is growing up..."

    FML

  6. #4786

    Default

    @julian_doe I don't think it's about age but rather about access. Everything is accessible right now, whatever comes out there is an immediate exposure, you and everyone else know what it is where it's from and how to get it. In the past there was somewhat of of a discovery process, everything wasn't easily found and readily available, there was at least a little bit of mystic (not trying to sound cliche or romantic).

    Since you've mentioned music, there is quite a big vinyl revival going on in the last few years especially in minimal, micro tech, techno, deep house etc' people try to find rare tracks and bring out something that the crowd never heard. Some labels (genuine ones) release certain tracks that are not available to the public, since with beatport and discos you can literally get anything. A DJ still wants to have some element of surprise where the crowd has no idea what it being played.
    I love beautiful melodies, telling me terrible things.
    My Music: https://soundcloud.com/iamanton

  7. #4787

    Default

    ^ To go on a tangent there's like a gazillion tracks on beatport, plennnnnty of rarities to be found there already. The whole vinyl release only jerkoff is fun but pretty moot imo.

  8. #4788

    Default

    @Dropt I never said that there isn't plenty of rare stuff on Beatport, the reason people go for rare exclusive releases is exactly because Beatport has so much stuff there. Without a doubt there is a lot of "wanking" going on the vinyl world right now but this happens pretty much anywhere where anything can get in to the wrong hands. It started as a good thing and then other people joined...
    I love beautiful melodies, telling me terrible things.
    My Music: https://soundcloud.com/iamanton

  9. #4789

    Default

    Oh for sure, we're on the same page. To be fair vinyl releases at least (usually) have some healthy curating to them, whereas when you hear some of the shit bandied around on beatport…

  10. #4790

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dropt View Post
    Oh for sure, we're on the same page. To be fair vinyl releases at least (usually) have some healthy curating to them, whereas when you hear some of the shit bandied around on beatport…
    Thanks for your replies, Anton and Dropt.

    I agree that most music can be found online, and that most records being released today are just a physical manifestation of the digitally recorded music that artists release. My personal reason for looking for these old records is the sentimental value that these bands have had throughout my life.

    For example, I mostly prefer 7" releases which have tracks that are rare, perhaps even samples for a musician's side project.

    Access to fashion/music/art online is not something which I see as a negative thing. I currently live in Orlando, FL and I can tell you that the only access I have to view the work of the designers I admire is to either travel outside of the state or to view collections on https://www.sz-mag.com/ . I am glad that I am able to have some sort of access to the things I am passionate about, and I am glad that people all over the world have the chance to stumble upon the inspirational and beautiful works of the designers we hold to a high regard in this forum.

    My initial comment was about the actual work which new artists/designers are producing. When I still lived in SF and was able to see Off-White/Yeezy/Vetements in person, I was incredibly disappointed. In regards to new music, I barely listen to any bands/musicians who have not begun releasing music pre-2010. Everything feels like it is lacking substance...new products/songs are engineered without sweat/calluses...and I can somehow see this in each finished piece.

    I am sure that people older than me would say something similar about the things that I like.

    People that fail to perceive the technical musicianship of a Daughters song, and prefer the Rolling Stones.

    People that see the dead-end long jacket by CCP as an erratic tailoring experiment because it doesn't follow traditional tailoring rules (sleeves past the wrist, for example), and prefer Kiton.

    My question is whether this is generational thing or not.

  11. #4791

    Default

    Julian,
    As someone who is definitely part of the younger generation on SZ, I will offer my opinion about the matter. Aside from fashion, growing up, I used to enjoy video games and sports. And then when I got older, my tastes refined themselves and got more specific. For example, now I only enjoy soccer and barely enjoy video games. I go back and listen to the music from my youth, from when I was 10 years old playing games. I was a blessed ten year old, I got hooked on the Guitar Hero video game franchise. My friends and I were 10 years old playing Buckethead and Metallica on a plastic guitar, that's pretty cool to me. I bring up the video game example because in my opinion ALL video games have taken a major fall in the last five years with in-game purchases taking over; this eliminates content from the base game. However, to get into the point, I feel our standards and desires change drastically when we reach a certain point. It is easy to look back, in sports for example, and say that player is no doubt the best of all time. What some people forget to realize is, for whatever reason, we hate to admit to seeing greatness in the moment: LeBron James, Lionel Messi just to name a few. I am like yourself, I love seeing hard work put into something for a fantastic and rewarding product. I think it is a mix of getting older, having unlimited access and resources (as said by Anton), and finally the fact that media IS slowly becoming more and more shitty... To add one last point, most high school kids a few years younger than me have no sense of individuality at all, they're all followers and will do anything to fit in. They ride trends until they die and move onto the next one. They certainly don't appreciate the blood, sweat, and tears of a creator.

  12. #4792

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hon View Post
    Julian,
    As someone who is definitely part of the younger generation on SZ, I will offer my opinion about the matter. Aside from fashion, growing up, I used to enjoy video games and sports. And then when I got older, my tastes refined themselves and got more specific. For example, now I only enjoy soccer and barely enjoy video games. I go back and listen to the music from my youth, from when I was 10 years old playing games. I was a blessed ten year old, I got hooked on the Guitar Hero video game franchise. My friends and I were 10 years old playing Buckethead and Metallica on a plastic guitar, that's pretty cool to me. I bring up the video game example because in my opinion ALL video games have taken a major fall in the last five years with in-game purchases taking over; this eliminates content from the base game. However, to get into the point, I feel our standards and desires change drastically when we reach a certain point. It is easy to look back, in sports for example, and say that player is no doubt the best of all time. What some people forget to realize is, for whatever reason, we hate to admit to seeing greatness in the moment: LeBron James, Lionel Messi just to name a few. I am like yourself, I love seeing hard work put into something for a fantastic and rewarding product. I think it is a mix of getting older, having unlimited access and resources (as said by Anton), and finally the fact that media IS slowly becoming more and more shitty... To add one last point, most high school kids a few years younger than me have no sense of individuality at all, they're all followers and will do anything to fit in. They ride trends until they die and move onto the next one. They certainly don't appreciate the blood, sweat, and tears of a creator.
    If I understand what you are trying to get at, you actually believe that it IS a generational thing. Correct?

  13. #4793

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by julian_doe View Post
    If I understand what you are trying to get at, you actually believe that it IS a generational thing. Correct?
    Yeah, sorry for the scattered points. I do think it is a generational thing, but there is a lot more to it. I also think that because of our access to resources our expectations are so goddamn high, and expectations can get higher with age. That could apply for many forms of media, fashion included I suppose. I am definitely biased in my personal opinion but the generation of kids my age and a little bit younger IN MY AREA is piss poor. Nobody has ambitions, everybody is going through the motions of college, etc. The idea of going to school for a "craft" is gone, nobody wants to put the blood, sweat, and tears into something they love doing, they just want to half ass it and reap the rewards. I know at least 25 people who joined the Armed Forces to "kill some towel heads." But then again, you could just argue American education systems are fucked. Nobody knows what they are doing anymore. To summarize, this generation (mine) is fucked. I don't know what needs to be changed, but to conclude, I do believe this is a generational thing. This is, of course, just my pessimistic opinion reflecting the environment I live in.

  14. #4794

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hon View Post
    Yeah, sorry for the scattered points. I do think it is a generational thing, but there is a lot more to it. I also think that because of our access to resources our expectations are so goddamn high, and expectations can get higher with age. That could apply for many forms of media, fashion included I suppose. I am definitely biased in my personal opinion but the generation of kids my age and a little bit younger IN MY AREA is piss poor. Nobody has ambitions, everybody is going through the motions of college, etc. The idea of going to school for a "craft" is gone, nobody wants to put the blood, sweat, and tears into something they love doing, they just want to half ass it and reap the rewards. I know at least 25 people who joined the Armed Forces to "kill some towel heads." But then again, you could just argue American education systems are fucked. Nobody knows what they are doing anymore. To summarize, this generation (mine) is fucked. I don't know what needs to be changed, but to conclude, I do believe this is a generational thing. This is, of course, just my pessimistic opinion reflecting the environment I live in.
    No need to apologize, I appreciate you taking the time to discuss this.

    As mentioned previously I definitely feel that there is a generational factor to this unfulfilled feeling I get when I give something "new" a chance. And like you, I also think that it is not the ONLY factor.

    Things feel far more insipid today, and those who still keep true to the "craft" are few and far in between.
    Last edited by julian_doe; 04-02-2018 at 03:44 PM.

  15. #4795
    kitsch killer Faust's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Long hard road out of hell
    Posts
    37,755

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dropt View Post
    Oh for sure, we're on the same page. To be fair vinyl releases at least (usually) have some healthy curating to them, whereas when you hear some of the shit bandied around on beatport…
    I could never square techno and vinyl. Explain.
    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

    StyleZeitgeist Magazine

  16. #4796
    kitsch killer Faust's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Long hard road out of hell
    Posts
    37,755

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by julian_doe View Post
    Thanks for your replies, Anton and Dropt.

    I agree that most music can be found online, and that most records being released today are just a physical manifestation of the digitally recorded music that artists release. My personal reason for looking for these old records is the sentimental value that these bands have had throughout my life.

    For example, I mostly prefer 7" releases which have tracks that are rare, perhaps even samples for a musician's side project.

    Access to fashion/music/art online is not something which I see as a negative thing. I currently live in Orlando, FL and I can tell you that the only access I have to view the work of the designers I admire is to either travel outside of the state or to view collections on https://www.sz-mag.com/ . I am glad that I am able to have some sort of access to the things I am passionate about, and I am glad that people all over the world have the chance to stumble upon the inspirational and beautiful works of the designers we hold to a high regard in this forum.

    My initial comment was about the actual work which new artists/designers are producing. When I still lived in SF and was able to see Off-White/Yeezy/Vetements in person, I was incredibly disappointed. In regards to new music, I barely listen to any bands/musicians who have not begun releasing music pre-2010. Everything feels like it is lacking substance...new products/songs are engineered without sweat/calluses...and I can somehow see this in each finished piece.

    I am sure that people older than me would say something similar about the things that I like.

    People that fail to perceive the technical musicianship of a Daughters song, and prefer the Rolling Stones.

    People that see the dead-end long jacket by CCP as an erratic tailoring experiment because it doesn't follow traditional tailoring rules (sleeves past the wrist, for example), and prefer Kiton.

    My question is whether this is generational thing or not.
    I don't think it's a generational thing entirely. But you do get some cultural baggage at some point in your life, and I think that's fine. We can only process so much. But there are pretty obvious qualitative cultural differences from one decade to the next. Pop is pop and always will be. I don't necessarily know if today's hip-hop takeover of pop-music is any worse than New Kids on the Block or Motown or Elvis Presley. Is Madonna better than Brittney Spears, and is she better than Lady Gaga? I don't know - maybe. But is her music better, or is it simply because she blazed the trail? Anyway, at the end of the day, It's all shit to me.
    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

    StyleZeitgeist Magazine

  17. #4797

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by julian_doe View Post
    Things feel far more insipid today, and those who still keep true to the "craft" are few and far in between.
    A hypothesis I have (and I'm currently testing in the music context) is that a proliferation of business and technological tools are nudging the arts towards neoliberal professionalization where customer-oriented artists create what audiences "want" to hear. All of this insidiously happens unbeknownst to the artists themselves, who have grown up in this environment, and is further fueled through instant social comparison through plays/likes/streams/views/etc that constantly validates their quest. Instagram celebrities is probably the most flagrant example of this. Because everything outside of the mold that has somehow acquired an audience can be co-opted almost overnight, what is or is not authentic becomes lost in the flow of artistic products, and everything ends up sounding a bit phony.

  18. #4798

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by julian_doe View Post
    Things feel far more insipid today, and those who still keep true to the "craft" are few and far in between.
    I don't think there's a shortage of good design right now, I just think the platforms are too saturated, as with music, it's easiest to romanticize the designers of the past instead of filtering through new designers and waiting on them to prove their longevity.

    I think social contexts are important too, CCP and Helmut Lang came from different social spaces that young designers are dealing with now. I think that gender non-conforming, androgynous clothing is important to young designers now because gender has become such an important conversation for us to have. Obviously its been capitalized on thoroughly, but it can be avant-garde in its own respect.

    Maybe Greenberg's points could lend to the discussion of popular vs avant-garde fashion?
    http://www.sharecom.ca/greenberg/kitsch.html I know its dated to the point of being almost obsolete, but Greenberg sure loved the avant-garde! And disliked kitsch, which I feel is a view shared by many on SZ. I think brands like Vetements and Off-White cater to people in similar ways that Transformers and Fast & Furious do

    So generational, yes, but I think its also dependent on social and political contexts, neoliberalism, individualism, access, accelerated global capitalism etc. So many things !

  19. #4799
    kitsch killer Faust's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Long hard road out of hell
    Posts
    37,755

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stagename View Post
    A hypothesis I have (and I'm currently testing in the music context) is that a proliferation of business and technological tools are nudging the arts towards neoliberal professionalization where customer-oriented artists create what audiences "want" to hear. All of this insidiously happens unbeknownst to the artists themselves, who have grown up in this environment, and is further fueled through instant social comparison through plays/likes/streams/views/etc that constantly validates their quest. Instagram celebrities is probably the most flagrant example of this. Because everything outside of the mold that has somehow acquired an audience can be co-opted almost overnight, what is or is not authentic becomes lost in the flow of artistic products, and everything ends up sounding a bit phony.
    In other words - Blame the Audience
    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

    StyleZeitgeist Magazine

  20. #4800

    Default

    To be honest I fail to see how the mass or even pop culture of yore is inferior to current popmass. Sure I love the Ramones and don't listen to, I dunno, Rihanna but for me all this stuff is just different cultural configurations and personal narratives with equal value. I'm not trying to flatten the whole cultural edifice btw, I don't think high culture should be equated to that stuff. Sure Schoenberg (to stela from Adorno) is superior to pop music and the plays of Heiner Müller to the current crop of "upper middle brow" tv series. I am merely stating that the fight over which middle brow production matters is more about social positioning or representation than true aesthetic grading.

    Note that I hold this objective position while my own subjective opinion strongly favours some cultural middle brow creations over others. As Niels Bohr said of a lucky horseshoe he had in his chalet "I was told it works even if I don't believe in it."
    Selling CCP, Harnden, Raf, Rick etc.
    http://www.stylezeitgeist.com/forums...me-other-stuff

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •