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Female fashion models and stereotypes

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  • Faust
    kitsch killer
    • Sep 2006
    • 37852

    #31
    Originally posted by fadetogrey View Post
    To me the popularization of Skinny models- more specifically boyish, skinny all over (let’s not forget about the impossibly skinny corseted waists throughout history) girls in the 1960s feels like a reaction (or rebellion) to the socially acceptable norm of feminine beauty from the decade(s) before- the voluptuous, womanly bombshell with full breasts and hips. I think how different the clothes of the 60s were from the 50s and the drastic switch in ideal figure for modelling those clothes somewhat makes sense.

    Social freedoms made wearing more revealing/tight fitting clothing more acceptable… the jeans so tight in the 70s that women needed pliers to pull up the zipper, barely there bikinis, plus the popularization of exercise (let’s get physical!) in the 80s, the “ideal woman” got thinner over time.

    That "Heroin chic" thin androgyny in the 90s countered the comparatively healthy-looking (though still thin) supermodels (Linda, Naomi, Cindy, etc) But I’m not sure how it has evolved to such a rail thin pre-pubescent ideal that it is today, and that few are rebelling against.

    In short I think the chicken and egg happened at the same time... influencing each other, though in my opinion I think that clothing has slightly more of an impact on body shape than the reverse.
    I have read a conjecture somewhere, can't remember where, that it's the projection of predominantly gay designers' own sexual desires. Please don't shoot the messenger - I do not subscribe to this point of view, but I did read this somewhere.
    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

    StyleZeitgeist Magazine

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    • Bson
      Senior Member
      • May 2013
      • 189

      #32
      Originally posted by Faust View Post
      I have read a conjecture somewhere, can't remember where, that it's the projection of predominantly gay designers' own sexual desires. Please don't shoot the messenger - I do not subscribe to this point of view, but I did read this somewhere.
      Huh... I guess all the female designers have the same sexual fantasies.

      Comment

      • Faust
        kitsch killer
        • Sep 2006
        • 37852

        #33
        Originally posted by Bson View Post
        Huh... I guess all the female designers have the same sexual fantasies.
        Which female designers, with perhaps the exception of Prada, do you think have dictated aesthetic preference in fashion at large?
        Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

        StyleZeitgeist Magazine

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        • Verdandi
          Senior Member
          • Mar 2012
          • 499

          #34
          Funny that you mention Prada, Faust. I read some articles a while ago and they all basically said that it was Prada, or better the casting directors there, who pushed for a younger, skinnier and more uniform look in the first place. That was in the early 2000s and I don't think much has changed since then. I remember all the hoopla surrounding Kate Moss and 'heroin chic' back when I was a young girl in the 90s, but looking back I don't think Moss' physique would raise any concern today.
          lavender menace

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          • Faust
            kitsch killer
            • Sep 2006
            • 37852

            #35
            I don't know much about this but it seems like it's the likes of Calvin Klein and Tom Ford that have pushed this. First time I hear Prada mentioned (not that I don't believe you).

            Anyway, maybe someone who knows better will chime in. I know the subject is great news fodder because of its sensationalism and there are books written by former models about this (one memoir is called Hungry), but I don't know whether there has been a definite effect on women's health. These days I am MOST skeptical of anyone writing a memoir - it's become the easiest way to cash in on your life.
            Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

            StyleZeitgeist Magazine

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            • Verdandi
              Senior Member
              • Mar 2012
              • 499

              #36
              Prada became the benchmark combing Eastern Europe for EXCLUSIVE girls much too young and inexperienced to be in any shows but their shows. I will credit them with creating a look that worked in a very provocative, interesting way for their image. This coupled with the rise of style.com just had people on the edge of their seats waiting to see who the next hot girl at Prada would be and everyone just handing you a list of what they wanted from the internet instead of doing their own thing. Problem is Prada would just replace them every season and though what they did for themselves I found brilliant, most of these girls were very disappointing in real life. Too young, no confidence or life experience and gone by next season. So models were no longer developed. Show packages went from 20-30 dependable aspirational girls to 400 girls a season and after seeing them, maybe finding two okay acceptable girls to work with. And then everyone from Calvin on down just followed suit trying to do what Prada did getting all exclusive crazy but doing it very badly and unoriginally. Personality and ethnicity disappeared and these pre-pubescent girls are why model size went from 8-0. And the business has not recovered from it and the situation is getting worse.
              James Scully

              I read a similar sentiment in another interview as well.
              lavender menace

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              • Faust
                kitsch killer
                • Sep 2006
                • 37852

                #37
                Thanks for this! Very interesting.
                Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                Comment

                • Bson
                  Senior Member
                  • May 2013
                  • 189

                  #38
                  Originally posted by Faust View Post
                  Which female designers, with perhaps the exception of Prada, do you think have dictated aesthetic preference in fashion at large?
                  Hmm... Well, I think the designers (male or female) across the board all went along with the trend of the models. You could see castings as time for designers to choose a canvas in which to best show their work-- if all the models showing up are within a certain weight, they only have certain options for canvas. Certainly, if the designers wanted to show a woman less slight of frame they could easily let that be known for the castings, though why? There is a system that they go through, not a fantasy. That was my point with my comment.

                  And honestly it's an absurd conjecture to say that the influential gay designers would suddenly be into into 'rail thin' boys after the muscular hype of men in the 90s (Marky Mark, etc), and then translate that into what they see in a woman wearing their clothing. It makes no sense. Even the men today that act as the muses of the top gay designers are muscular, with some few exceptions.

                  As already stated, to really know the answer you'd need to go back and study the correlation between designer's wants, what model managements sought after, and what was becoming popularized not only in editorials but also in the general aesthetic appeal of the public. Can you say the change is all because of a select few in fashion, even?

                  Now the men are just as thin, especially in the Paris shows. Even being 6-foot and moderately thin, I find it difficult myself to fit into some pieces. The gap in body type between the genders is becoming smaller and smaller every year. I think most designers are just along for the ride.

                  Comment

                  • Faust
                    kitsch killer
                    • Sep 2006
                    • 37852

                    #39
                    I think the select few absolutely can and did. Only select few lead in fashion, the rest follow like a herd. Case in point, the answer to your bewilderment at mens sizing is Hedi Slimane. I don't have to go back for this one because I witnessed it. And if you don't believe me, ask the Kaiser who famously lost a lot of weight just to fit into the DH suits.
                    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                    StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                    Comment

                    • fadetogrey
                      Senior Member
                      • Apr 2009
                      • 311

                      #40
                      I think if you are a designer or a "house" that has the means (as in the time and money) to source the type of body or the age of model or whatever fulfills your artistic vision, going with the flow with regards to whatever size model is in fashion at the time, is a cop-out. It's lazy. Unless of course you have no point of view on the matter, but I find most creatives have a holistic approach to designing their "world". Off the top of my head I think of Yohji in particular with regards to using "alternative" models in some shows.

                      Many times the noise I hear about using alternative models, whether they be older than the "norm", larger than the "norm", etc, is something to the effect that it detracts from the clothes or that it becomes a gag. I think that's idiotic personally, if you can't look at or appreciate clothes on a body that isn't thin.

                      Just throwing an idea out there, but perhaps in some cases could the use of very thin "hanger" models be mirroring highly stylized design sketches- if a designer sketches and imagines a garment on a very thin elongated croque, and tries to recreate that look on a live person. If you look at most fashion illustration throughout the early 20th century, the forms are quite representative of real life proportions.

                      Comment

                      • old
                        Senior Member
                        • Jul 2009
                        • 132

                        #41
                        Here is another article that connected Prada with casting prepubescent girls, as a strategy against the supermodels in the 90s.

                        The opening slots and exclusives of Prada...so coveted and precious, a first exit in that space meant a star was born. That is until Prada itself (for we must imagine Prada an entity, and a very mercurial one at that) seemed to grow annoyed with all this pedestrian star-is-born drama and swung as randomly and mercurially as it wished. To the point that its Fall 2011 campaign featured 4 girls who not only did not set foot on a Prada catwalk, these girls had hardly set foot outside the little farm towns and villages they seemed to have been gleaned from. Beyond Prada it is the tone, everywhere on every runway. Every designer is doing as he or she will with these roaming bands of awkward new girls and every show increasingly a hermetic and self-enclosed statement of a single designer's current whim. There's very little connection or continuity.
                        Tradition ist Bewahrung des Feuers und nicht Anbetung der Asche.

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                        • Shucks
                          Senior Member
                          • Aug 2010
                          • 3104

                          #42
                          Originally posted by fadetogrey View Post
                          Just throwing an idea out there, but perhaps in some cases could the use of very thin "hanger" models be mirroring highly stylized design sketches- if a designer sketches and imagines a garment on a very thin elongated croque, and tries to recreate that look on a live person. If you look at most fashion illustration throughout the early 20th century, the forms are quite representative of real life proportions.
                          u are almost touching on a point i was gonna make earlier but forgot. there is a difference in how proportions of a person/object in a two dimensional (and scaled-down) image (like a photo or sketch) is perceived compared to seeing the same person/object three dimensionally (and full scale). unhealthy proportions and weight issues will look much more absurd in real life (such as at a show) than in the photos from the same show. in a way i think this is part of what lies behind the development of rail thin models. the production of attractive images is one of the main drivers of the fashion business.

                          just to give an analogy - we can experience a caricature drawing as almost more 'true' than the real person being charicatured.

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                          • lennard
                            Junior Member
                            • Feb 2024
                            • 8

                            #43
                            I recently used a modeling agency in Las Vegas for our corporate event and it was truly an unforgettable experience. It's impressive how professionally and smoothly everything was organized. Modeling agencies in Las Vegas https://blinkmodelmanagement.com/ provided us with a diverse selection of models that fit perfectly into the concept of our event. Each model was not only visually attractive but also had amazing communication skills, which played a big role in the success of our event. I especially appreciate the personal approach and attention to detail that the agency staff showed, from selecting models to coordinating their work on-site.​

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                            • Seniox
                              Junior Member
                              • Mar 2024
                              • 1

                              #44
                              i do in my case love some of the female designers that are conscious that they are making clothes for real people and maybe thats why sometimes we gotta see trends that perform well overtime. But i also try not to categorize designers into their genders because being a designer is a real job that only few people can do :) one exemple i have in mind is the baggy clothes as you can see here that were first made for people that wanted to wear comfy clothes but now you have various models !
                              Last edited by Seniox; 03-16-2024, 05:49 AM.

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