Margiela x H&M ???

[nqth]

i think it might make sense if they'd re-do some (all would be too great expectation:) hm stock left.

[LEB]

I read this statistic recently that if a woman purchases a fake bag (lets say LV on Canal Street), she is 3 times more likely to buy a real LV handbag when the fake one wears out or breaks. 3 times more likely than if she had never bought the fake one at all.... [/I]

pfft, statistics...
"Do not trust any statistics you did not fake yourself."

[droussin]

I dont know how to feel. on one hand this if done correctly could be an interesting collaboration IF the design philosophy of MMM is actually involved in the clothing thats produced. But on the other hand this is just another case in which MMM has shown that it has become less about its own design philosophy and more about the celebrity that the label has gained over the years...i'll be interested in seeing what actually gets produced

[Faust]

I read this statistic recently that if a woman purchases a fake bag (lets say LV on Canal Street), she is 3 times more likely to buy a real LV handbag when the fake one wears out or breaks. 3 times more likely than if she had never bought the fake one at all.

After reading, it seemed like what this equation was dependent on was the woman being able to afford the real one, but I guess thats based on my own [false] assumption that the only reason she bought the fake one was because she couldn't afford the real one in the first place. Or in other words, many women could afford real LV handbag if they wanted to, but do not allocate the money for the real thing, as they do not see it as necessary. After owning the fake one, they are 3 times as likely to see it as necessary to own the real one.

Maybe thats the mindset when these designers do these collaborations.

disclaimer, this is not a gender specific comment or topic, just relating it to the statistic I read.

That's interesting. Do you have a link to that statistic?

[pseudonym]

Was just searching through some of my archived emails/files, as I thought for sure I had all of these related articles backed up. This one is the only one I forwarded on from my email.

It was published about year ago, and it cites some parallel findings/statistics.

"...MIT marketing professor Renee Richardson Gosline has described as a 'gateway' product.
Gosline's theory is that women who buy cheap versions, that quickly fall apart, begin to yearn for the real thing.

She found that within a couple of years, more than half of the middle-class women women she spoke to - many of who would never have considered buying an £800 bag before - actually swapped their counterfeits for authentic items..."


After I read this, I started paying attention to similar articles in consumer behavior. I'll have to continue looking for the other article(s) elsewhere, I want to say the most recent one was within the last 2 months.

[Faust]

But this one doesn't say that they are more likely to buy them than other women. Could be correlation without causation. Of course when they bought the fake they want the real one all along.

[Verdandi]

Another thing is that they are talking handbags in this 'study'.
A lot of my friends don't mind shelling out large sums for certain designer handbags (shoes come to mind here as well, especially when it comes to the ones with the red soles) but look at me as I've grown three heads when they ask me what I paid for a pair of pants.

[pseudonym]

But this one doesn't say that they are more likely to buy them than other women. Could be correlation without causation. Of course when they bought the fake they want the real one all along.

Thats true. Theres no doubt in my mind that a woman that buys a fake bag 'wants' the real one all along. Its a matter of whether they 'want' to spend the money on it, or if the fake one is good enough (prior to owning either).

I also think it is just studying a pattern rather than comparing different women, i.e., out of 4 women that bought fake handbags, 3 women end up buying a real one when it wears out/breaks - 3 times more likely is the 3:1 ratio of activity here.

In this article, it is listed as "over half", so maybe its only a 2:1 ratio or 3:2..

Its hard to get a true read since this survey is primarily inclusive of people that have bought a real one after owning a fake one, and also, only the middle class. Kinda a self fulfilling prophecy in one way since most of the people that just go on buying the fakes forever are essentially left out of this survey because they are not in the middle class. Although thats where that other article came in, much more thorough and more quantifiable research, even still, the ratios are not off by much. I'll continue digging around a bit more.

The underlining theme in both articles though, was the 'gateway' tendency. Which I think most of us can relate to. And I think that is what is going on with all of these Designer x H&M collaborations.

Bringing it full circle, whether there are a lot of people that 'want' real MMM or not, this will provide many people with his product, or at least the thought of his product. Likely he (and all other designers that have done these collaborations) is/are hoping will fuel business in his/their regular collection(s).

[Faust]

You know, we've always assumed that designers benefit financially from these collaborations, but now, if we consider that this is branding and extension of brand awareness, I am actually not so sure. I don't remember seeing any numbers disclosed anywhere. Maybe the hype is the payoff.

Anyway, wondering what the labels on this would look like.

[pseudonym]

You know, we've always assumed that designers benefit financially from these collaborations, but now, if we consider that this is branding and extension of brand awareness, I am actually not so sure. I don't remember seeing any numbers disclosed anywhere. Maybe the hype is the payoff.

Anyway, wondering what the labels on this would look like.

Agreed on all parts, and also am very curious of the label.

Just throwing a guess out there:

Alphabet instead of numbers, with H and M circled.

[crtk001]

Nice article on it here;

http://blogs.ft.com/material-world/2012/06/12/hm-makes-a-very-surprising-choice/#axzz1xbvP0xDj

touches on every point I'd maybe make about the collaboration/bastardization. I find myself just reminding myself that this is not Margiela himself doing this, in that regards the "diesel x h&m" comment is apt. The line has been held up pretty true to what Margiela was a lot better than most head designer changes do, attested by Margiela's quiet departure, seemingly unnoticed departure from the line.

This is a collection, I figure, will touch on what Margiela often said he disapproved up, the idea of the "conceptual" in mainstream fashion. What MM did had reason and a long thought process behind it, something that doesn't translate well to fast fashion like H&M, so it will probably just wear the guise of conceptual by revisiting old aesthetics associated with Margiela. Lots of white, patching/constructing parts of different items together in one, etc. (we all know MM's work).

That's what annoys me about the idea of MMM and H&M, the product will be just a bastardized archives, as a lot of the designer collaborations have been, that then to the public who will see it and aren't familiar with it, devalues the original work.

On top of all that, as the article says, despite the unusualness of some of MMM's work, great tailoring has always been emphasized, H&M is definitely not known for that.

From MMM's position, I can only hope their intention is somewhat ironic, critique H&M and the fast fashion industry through the pieces, which would be lost on most people anyways. Just hoping there is some intent beyond Diesel wanting to popularize and mainstream the MMM line. Thats the best case scenario I can think of though, besides that the whole idea makes me a little sick.

[Pontifex]

The rumours are true, below are two promo videos for the collection to be launched in November .

One video shows an illustration of a ladies darted sweater an the other an illustration of a men's coat which is a fusion of various car coats. Seems fairly interesting tbh (in regards to the men's).

Videos are on YouTube, but had trouble linking via my phone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsFCg69imBI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvasCk1SjDM

[Faust]

CRTK, Vanessa Friedman makes good points (as you do), but I wonder if she's missing one simple thing. Margiela's conceptualism is indeed niche, but what one thing that marketers have learned is that "niche = cool" - a VERY important concept. I don't think it much extends beyond that. And since H&M is ostensibly in the business of cool, this is natural.

And no, I don't think Rosso is capable of irony. He's not Rei Kawakubo, who can spin anything in terms of irony.

[rider]

is it possible that MMM is looking at this undertaking as a new arena to turn really cheap fabrics into something avant people wear? i think this can be a really neat venture if not a creative challenge to tap niche clientele.

[crtk001]

Margiela's conceptualism is indeed niche, but what one thing that marketers have learned is that "niche = cool" - a VERY important concept.

Marketer's figured that out awhile ago and I guess that this is it coming to head in fashion. The idea of "the longtail" Wired Magazine editor/author Chris Anderson has been championing for a long time.

Summed up, on Amazon they found the big New York Bestsellers sold lots, but most sales were coming from the recommended and lesser known books the site made available. They made a massive library and people have gone from the Bestsellers down rabbit holes to small niche writers and genres.

I've talked about the longtail and StyleZeitgeist before, rather intensively as part of my thesis, this is H&M trying to tap into that.