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  • 525252
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 246

    Hey that's incredible and great to hear. I had CYDWOQ in mind when I was thinking of in-house production , its great and it works (though its hard work). The thing is that you yourself have quite radically changed the potential and possibilities by innovating a new (at the least different) process in manufacture which addresses the problems that the current system poses. At the end of the day we're working towards the same thing. So in this context, my response to your friend Albert was fair in my opinion. I'd still like to know from you though, what is the point of having your work available with both stockists and your own online store? Is it efficient and streamlined?

    ps.- I don't know what you consider to be authentic philosophy or such, but I don't think I really need your validation to discuss whatever I would like to discuss, thanks anyway, I appreciate your concern.

    pps. I just realised:

    so this idea that local manufacturing is difficult is ridiculous.
    aaah I now see where the misunderstanding is. You have said how painstaking, how much of a headache etc.etc. How your friends said it is suicide. See? It is difficult, but it is necessary, we do agree on that.
    Last edited by 525252; 12-10-2012, 11:19 PM.

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    • Ahimsa
      Vegan Police
      • Sep 2011
      • 1879

      Resurrecting this thread as relevant to the recent Rick Owens discussion.
      StyleZeitgeist Magazine | Store

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      • DudleyGray
        Senior Member
        • Jul 2013
        • 1143

        It looks like there's a push to get away from Rick on SZ, maybe not just because of Moldova but maybe other reasons too, like avoiding stagnation in aesthetic or ending up with a bunch of unworn pieces because Rick is addictive like that. Call me pessimistic, but I don't think it can work at this time, at least not for people like me. Because when I look in my closet, I see clothes, nice clothes, and Rick.

        It might be unfortunate, but it's not for lack of trying. Rick managed to hit something deeper with his universe than other designers, and every time I've tried to move on, I inevitably snap back. I think there's something emotional in it that I won't bore you with, but objectively speaking, his design is perfection.

        Every component of his uniform is exceptional and unique, and he really does the most with the least, where combining pieces makes a whole that is greater than the sum of its parts. With the basic uniform, the sneakers are huge, but the real magic is the concealed heel. A big sneaker like that should swallow your leg and make you look stumpy, but the concealed heel balances that out without anyone knowing you're wearing heels. The extended shirt and drop crotch to further elongate and obscure body proportions by hiding the proportions of the upper to lower torso, the upper to lower leg, and the leg to torso. Combine this with tight shoulders with relaxed bodies in the outer layers, and you have a magic droopy yet somehow impossibly long look that many body types can wear and pull off, moreso than the typical super skinny look. So that even though there's a lot of drape and volume, you still end up looking long and well-proportioned. In terms of body types, it is a very "inclusive" and unexpectedly flattering uniform, relative to the offerings of other designers.

        You can recreate this effect with pieces from other designers, but it feels disingenuous to do so. I personally feel there's a lot more to what a Rick fit says than just how it looks, but the most relevant one for this thread might be the antifashion statement. We want to be beyond seasonal trends of the fashion cycle, and Rick provides that by presenting slight variation on the same look each season. To move on from this for the sake of a fresher aesthetic also feels disingenuous, and Moldova doesn't seem as significant if you consider that big Rick fans probably already have older, prized leathers and don't actually "need" more.
        bandcamp | facebook | youtube

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        • Erich Fromm
          Member
          • May 2017
          • 85

          Gonna try to resurrect this because I feel it is a very important topic especially at the moment. It is necessary to realize that identifying a problem is nothing more than a very short first step imo. I think it is fair to say that most people on SZ have similar values when it comes to clothing such as quality, sustainability and so on (of course also good design). Especially now that our society is the epitome of mindless consumerism and our political climate is slowly but surely going to shit we need to make an active effort not only to educate ourselves even more about the things we are passionate about but to educate the people around us. I think even the younger and less experienced people, like myself, on this forum have convictions and ideas that showcase a higher intellectual curiosity than the mainstream at the moment. In my opinion it is key to project the idea that the only intellectual growth we can really affect is our own, on to the people around us. If everyone makes an effort to grow as an individual we grow as a community. The best action we can take appart from bettering ourselves is to spread the beauty and importance of training oneself intellectually. So many people on SZ are incredibly knowledgable and thoughtful and I really think we should all try to educate our own communities. Propagating the intrinsic values of things like quality in clothing and intellectuality is really the best we can do. We should actively try to act as an opposing force to the Kardashians of society who propagate mediocrity, vanity and extreme consumerism. For every culture there is counterculture. We should really be the active force of this counterculture. That should be next. And for me it certainly is.

          P.S. Sorry if this sounded arrogant in part, but maybe a little bit of elitism is necessary in this day and age.

          Comment

          • Faust
            kitsch killer
            • Sep 2006
            • 37852

            Unfortunately, it seems like most people just want to watch TV and Instagram. Every attempt at what you are describing is usually met with accusations of snobbery and/or elitism. Somewhere, the merit of postmodernist thinking of not accepting authoritarianism, which I would imagine presupposed a certain level of intellectual maturity on the part of the individual, got hijacked by the mob and turned into distrust of anything that does not confirm to whatever their twisted view of the world is. It's possible that this is how we got the Trump universe and fake news.

            Though, of course, you are certainly welcome to try and I don't mean to discourage you. At the end at least you know what you owe to yourself and no one can take that away from you. You will always find like-minded individuals, but know that throughout history such individuals have always been and will probably continue to be the minority.
            Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

            StyleZeitgeist Magazine

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            • Erich Fromm
              Member
              • May 2017
              • 85

              Originally posted by Faust View Post
              Unfortunately, it seems like most people just want to watch TV and Instagram. Every attempt at what you are describing is usually met with accusations of snobbery and/or elitism. Somewhere, the merit of postmodernist thinking of not accepting authoritarianism, which I would imagine presupposed a certain level of intellectual maturity on the part of the individual, got hijacked by the mob and turned into distrust of anything that does not confirm to whatever their twisted view of the world is. It's possible that this is how we got the Trump universe and fake news.

              Though, of course, you are certainly welcome to try and I don't mean to discourage you. At the end at least you know what you owe to yourself and no one can take that away from you. You will always find like-minded individuals, but know that throughout history such individuals have always been and will probably continue to be the minority.
              This is one of the saddest parts of postmodern society for me. People think that their level of thinking is equally abstract as everyone elses. The value of intellectuality is being eradicated because someone who has no interest in creating an opinion thinks their opinion is worth as much as someone who puts time and effort into personal growth. I'm all for equality, but effort should be rewarded.

              On a more physical level, after I'm done with my current reading, Ornament and Crime by Adolf Loos is next for me.
              Last edited by Erich Fromm; 05-12-2017, 03:54 PM.

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              • goldsamxo
                Senior Member
                • Jan 2017
                • 163

                Thank you for reviving this Erich, after spending the past hour reading this whole thread - I'd like to chime in on what I've seen as a student - on the future of Next.

                At school, there's two things I've seen focused on more in the field of clothing. Sustainability & Concept. Every senior's thesis that I've seen, has had either one or both of these as a driving point. There hasn't been much in-terms of technique taught, but more along the concept of doing something 'new'. Instead of seeing dyed-leathers, I'm seeing bullet-proof jackets made out of plastic (that isn't feasible, but it's just weird combinations that I'm trying to explain), and instead of form-fitting pants, I'm seeing baggy 3 foot long denim. Technique is seemingly being ignored by the current generation of students I'm with, but instead their concepts are being developed. It could go either-way; we could have a renaissance of designers like McQueen - or we could have a massive outpouring of designs trying too hard to be 'theatrical'.

                I got into 'fashion' when I was 16, so I don't know much 'history' besides the designers I study, and the techniques I find myself wanting to know history behind. It's seeming to me, 'artisan' clothing is becoming a forgotten technique in current students. There's not many people here who even know how to sew - a lot of people I'm in class with (I'm a Freshman) are successful 'fashion designers' on the perks of drawing out a picture and spending tens of thousands on manufacturing.

                I want to see what's going to happen next. I want to see more sustainable items brought into the fashion world . I want to see a resurgence of conceptual shows - as long as the technique is as beautiful as the theatrics. This has been a kind of sloppy post - but this has just been my observations on what I've seen in school. I'm happily practicing my technical skills - as I'm inspired by the more 'artisan' side of the fashion world (why I pursued a degree in design in the first place), but it's fun to watch where everything is going.

                Edit; Of course artisan isn't dying out at all - just with the people I'm surrounded by, doing these techniques seems to be something everyone else has no interest in. There's always going to be people trying to copy Poell - or pursue a field like M.A+ has.
                Originally Posted by Latoya Sizemore View Post

                It would be great if one cane wear little bit loose T-shirts with some great prints like marijuana leaves, cannabis, weeds etc.
                Most of the youngsters will like to wear fashionable and chill clothing, which give a great looks to youngsters.

                Comment

                • Erich Fromm
                  Member
                  • May 2017
                  • 85

                  No problem Sam :)

                  I think "artisan" clothing has become a bit inaccessible to the mainstream. Not just because the prices change extreme buying habits, but mostly because there are only 2 aesthetics I can think of that are at least somewhat represented. Sartorial, classic menswear which is wrongly being perceived as either elitist or as 9-5 clothing. And of course (I don't want to call it this but oh well) the SZ aesthetic. Not only do most people have no connection to these kind of designers, but I suppose for most people it is too extreme. A notable exception I think is Dries, having a different look but high quality nonetheless. Maybe what fashion needs is accessible high quality clothing which is more appealing to masses.

                  Comment

                  • goldsamxo
                    Senior Member
                    • Jan 2017
                    • 163

                    Originally posted by Erich Fromm View Post
                    Maybe what fashion needs is accessible high quality clothing which is more appealing to masses.
                    I wonder what kind of 'fashion' that could encompass. Like we saw this past seasons, with Junya Watanabe doing grey sweatpants (first thing that popped to mind) - I'm curious about what could make 'high fashion' more accessible? That's why I'm more-so not a trends guy or whatever; but I wonder how this ~elitist~ field could become more accepting. I have a hard time believing many people will stop buying 'crap' per-say and start spending more per piece. We have more 'casual' brands like Givenchy & LB - but still it's a status symbol with those brands. I'm just curious on how this path could change - I would love to see high-quality clothing that's more accessible.
                    Originally Posted by Latoya Sizemore View Post

                    It would be great if one cane wear little bit loose T-shirts with some great prints like marijuana leaves, cannabis, weeds etc.
                    Most of the youngsters will like to wear fashionable and chill clothing, which give a great looks to youngsters.

                    Comment

                    • Erich Fromm
                      Member
                      • May 2017
                      • 85

                      Originally posted by goldsamxo View Post
                      I wonder what kind of 'fashion' that could encompass. Like we saw this past seasons, with Junya Watanabe doing grey sweatpants (first thing that popped to mind) - I'm curious about what could make 'high fashion' more accessible? That's why I'm more-so not a trends guy or whatever; but I wonder how this ~elitist~ field could become more accepting. I have a hard time believing many people will stop buying 'crap' per-say and start spending more per piece. We have more 'casual' brands like Givenchy & LB - but still it's a status symbol with those brands. I'm just curious on how this path could change - I would love to see high-quality clothing that's more accessible.
                      I think of part of propagating the clothing we love so much on SZ is to expand the market. I'm applying to university in a year and it is definitely discouraging to see the way that the young fashion scene is evolving. To say it really cheesily, I guess I'll have to be the change I want to see in the world.

                      Comment

                      • TriggerDiscipline
                        Senior Member
                        • Apr 2013
                        • 859

                        Originally posted by Erich Fromm View Post
                        I think of part of propagating the clothing we love so much on SZ is to expand the market. I'm applying to university in a year and it is definitely discouraging to see the way that the young fashion scene is evolving. To say it really cheesily, I guess I'll have to be the change I want to see in the world.
                        How do you define high quality, is that even definable
                        Originally posted by unwashed
                        Try to use a phone camera in broad daylight or use a proper camera.
                        Originally posted by Ahimsa
                        I've found it extremely pleasant and enthralling over repeated whiffs so I would highly recommend.

                        Comment

                        • Erich Fromm
                          Member
                          • May 2017
                          • 85

                          Originally posted by TriggerDiscipline View Post
                          How do you define high quality, is that even definable
                          I suppose when speaking of quality in physical terms of construction, fabric etc., high quality is really defined by low quality. Better construction means longetivity, better fabric might mean longetivity, comfort etc. Of course everyone has subjective preferences or whatever, but quality of construction is something quite objective. If a pair of jeans starts falling apart after little wear it's quality is certainly not as high as a pair that lasts for years. For me (yes this is subjective, but I'm sure you would agree) there is something very beautiful about a hand-stitched buttonhole, or a perfectly cut coat. I don't see this beauty in a poorly made coat that might say "Vetements" on the back.

                          Comment

                          • TriggerDiscipline
                            Senior Member
                            • Apr 2013
                            • 859

                            Have you actually seen vetements in real life to make that judgment or are you just saying that for whatevr reason
                            Originally posted by unwashed
                            Try to use a phone camera in broad daylight or use a proper camera.
                            Originally posted by Ahimsa
                            I've found it extremely pleasant and enthralling over repeated whiffs so I would highly recommend.

                            Comment

                            • Erich Fromm
                              Member
                              • May 2017
                              • 85

                              Originally posted by TriggerDiscipline View Post
                              Have you actually seen vetements in real life to make that judgment or are you just saying that for whatevr reason
                              Yes I have handled Vetements and the quality really is not the best, but that was more of a statement to show that value is not placed on quality but on logos and such.

                              Comment

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