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  • Pumpfish
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2010
    • 513

    #16
    The big shift I see coming to this niche is a shift in the relationship between designer/manufacturer, retailer and customer.

    Much of the current model, within the niche, is a reflection of the mainstream high end fashion business model. Design, Show, Buy, Retail. But this is changing because it doesn't fully respond to the desires of the customer base.

    What distinguishes this niche is the taste and dedication combined with the spend level.

    Sufficient numbers find the mainstream model is too passive. They want more interaction with the designer/manufacturer. Not a bespoke service. They want the designer's aesthetic. But some level of customisation.

    A number of retailers are moving into an agency style role. Mediating between customer and designer. It is currently a cottage industry around "special orders", but the designers/manufacturers who can refine and scale up this process, and the retailers who can develop the distribution model which serves the client wishes will reformat how the niche works.
    Last edited by Pumpfish; 06-15-2012, 06:33 AM. Reason: typos
    spinning glue back into horses. . .

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Faust View Post
      Maybe some of the current designers forget that in order to deconstruct something you have to know how to construct it first.
      can not be stressed enough. especially where in a niche designers seem to run for raw hems and unlined garments by default rather than creating it as a product of a process and abstraction of conventional knowledge.

      Comment

      • surver
        Senior Member
        • Oct 2007
        • 638

        #18
        Originally posted by Pumpfish View Post
        The big shift I see coming to this niche is a shift in the relationship between designer/manufacturer, retailer and customer.

        Much of the current model, within the niche, is a reflection of the mainstream high end fashion business model. Design, Show, Buy, Retail. But this is changing because it doesn't fully respond to the desires of the customer base.

        What distinguishes this niche is the taste and dedication combined with the spend level.

        Sufficient numbers find the mainstream model is too passive. They want more interaction with the designer/manufacturer. Not a bespoke service. They want the designer's aesthetic. But some level of customisation.

        A number of retailers are moving into an agency style role. Mediating between customer and designer. It is currently a cottage industry around "special orders", but the designers/manufacturers who can refine and scale up this process, and the retailers who can develop the distribution model which serves the client wishes will reformat how the niche works.
        now that's the kind of insight/analysis/projection that makes things interesting... fully agree with you re this evolving 'operational shift', and was actually trying to formulate into words and you beat me to it and put it very eloquently :) this kind of shift just might turn the industry on its head, if there is the right momentum and critical mass...

        Comment

        • michael_kard
          Senior Member
          • Oct 2010
          • 2152

          #19
          In terms of shifts in aesthetic direction, I find Augusta's (one of the most hardcore artisanal brands imo) developments very interesting. The designer seems to be exploring a territory beyond its typical dirty and rough character that is imo indicative of a wider shift towards a bigger audience and also an attempt to bring something new in a small market oversatured with incredibly similar products. The first try was the modern looking sneakers which weren't very impressive, but this year's much sharper tailored pieces are a development I am very fond of and also last winter's weird red wedge heeled boots come to mind that looked like something SAK would make; those are definitely not aimed at the average Augusta customer, and remind me more of something from Downtown. Also, dafuq is this?

          The latest BBS winter collection also shows a similar shift towards something less rough and dark, although it's not so much because of individual pieces but rather because of styling and the way they were presented, combined with those sporty sneakers and sunglasses. In my opinion this was BBS's strongest collection in terms of individual narrative, but boy is it awful looking..
          ENDYMA / Archival fashion & Consignment
          Helmut Lang 1986-2005 | Ann Demeulemeester | Raf Simons | Burberry Prorsum | and more...

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          • falconchan
            Junior Member
            • Feb 2011
            • 16

            #20
            Well, it's a nice begining to think about the change.

            re designers:
            Seems designers are too focusing on the fabric experiments to ignore the concept.

            Marvie's fw collection brought me something unforgetable. She's combining her concept with the traditional fabric. Everything "Combination"ed well in the collection.

            Maybe it's time for designers to find new avenues of concept so that consumers would never get tired of viewing the show and buy. We just buy garments interesting and easily to be worn. When everything looks the same, we'll get tired sooner or later even they are in the best fabric. I think Devoa has done a great job in this area.

            When we got a title, then we could read the collection. If not, just gimmick and incomplete.

            to the buyers:
            Never forget promotion despite of loyal customers's consumption. Don't miss the interesting items and let us know, plssssss
            Background Ecucation make me sick.

            Comment

            • clay
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2006
              • 284

              #21
              I say NEXT is going on right now but if you don't look for it you won't find it.

              Comment

              • cjbreed
                Senior Member
                • Feb 2009
                • 2712

                #22
                good point about Marvie.

                well when i saw that news about aitor throup i immediately thought that this is at least some of whats next...

                he has been remarkably unpredictable and unproductive but i think there is something to be said for respecting the creative process and releasing your work when it is ready, not when the seasons change. i just hope he lives up to his potential with a full line of garments, and not just one garment. that would be cool, and should be what's next.

                i also kind of agree that along with carol and hopefully altieri when he finally re-emerges that designers like these that push themselves to grow and create and innovate ahead of the need to be a part of the traditional fashion "industry" will always be what's next.

                i'm not saying they aren't also trying to make some $$. of course they are. and i also don't think its just about having "vision" or being a "genius". its about developing a concept and then working your ass off.
                dying and coming back gives you considerable perspective

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                • zamb
                  Senior Member
                  • Nov 2006
                  • 5834

                  #23
                  all designers need to make money, we have to pay rent, we have to pay staff, we have to buy fabrics, we have families that sometimes depend on us for some kind of financial support, we have to go to market to show our work and such..............right now I am having heart palpitations with all the expenses for this seasons Paris market!

                  however I thing one needs to have some level of integrity, be passionate about doing good work and not reducing everything to the lowest common denominator.

                  I think a good mix is to find the balance between new exciting concepts that pushes the work further blended with some really good staples that are just so good there is no need to eliminate them. I have seen instances where designers abandon things and replace with new thing that are not necessarily better than what they replaced, but at the same time I'd rather see a new failed experiment that endless iterations of safe and sound stuff because designers are fearful of trying.....................
                  “You know,” he says, with a resilient smile, “it is a hard world for poets.”
                  .................................................. .......................


                  Zam Barrett Spring 2017 Now in stock

                  Comment

                  • tron
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2010
                    • 485

                    #24
                    Originally posted by michael_kard View Post
                    In terms of shifts in aesthetic direction..
                    I noticed that kind of softer theme happening a lot through the last FW collections. Julius and BBS stuck out the most for me because it seemed very reserved in some senses compared to previous collections. Less distressing and softer lines across the board although Boris' styling was a little much. It's nice to see that kind of progression without losing the designers edge. My only concern with this shift is that it would lead to them being too reserved in the future and less willing to try the outrageous. I think the upcoming collections will give me a better idea of what to expect in the future in terms of development from a few brands.

                    I'm especially interested in seeing what Damir's next step is.
                    "I think perfection is ugly. Somewhere in the things humans make, I want to see scars, failure, disorder, distortion."

                    Comment

                    • mizzar
                      Senior Member
                      • Mar 2008
                      • 219

                      #25
                      Maybe i come from young and foolish agenda in a way.
                      But i think we are forgetting functional clothes: the raincoat that shields from rain, pants in which you can actually walk fast enough etc.

                      For example my first and (i hope temporally) only Aitor Throup item is his pants for Umbro, his signature anatomic-animatic-fictional tailoring, but don't forget about fabric, it's so much more interesting (for me) then Forme d'expression cotton\silk\linen\cashmere for example, because it suits wide array of weather conditions and situations. It's only cotton+elastan, nothing revolutionary but it works.

                      Quality of construction and execution is far over rick, bbs, in aisce and on par with Forme, Julius. And i'm sure i would get much more km\buck then on any brand we discuss here.

                      Maybe it's because of my everyday involvement with clothes i can appreciate materials and construction more then idea.
                      But i'm eagerly waiting for "next" to be textile\construction evolution.
                      I want my seams taped, i need 3xdry, Scholler fabric, eVent, Neoshell in my clothes, Flyknit technology integrated in shoes, hydrofobic\oleofobic nanocoating on pants.

                      I really don't need polyester lining in my leather jacket (Obscur),
                      as i don't need cupro or acetate shorts, and fiberglass coats.

                      Don't get me wrong i don't want to look like some survivalist in Gore-tex jacket and nike acg boots in the center of Manhattan.
                      But every little step up in textile evolution is a holiday for me. Everybody knows how fragile drkshdw poplin is, stitching or fabric doesn't matter, and now new drkshdw poplin is not 100% cotton, but 96%cotton\4%elastan and it's just works.

                      So for me next is
                      textile and quality of: outlier, arc'teryx veilance, UVU, Nanamica, Shadow Project, Acronym.
                      concept and ideas of: all reverenced here, from Rick to Ann, from M.a+ to Yohji.

                      We are living in 2012, using iphones, wireless, 4k cameras, and DNA sequencers. Why don't admit it to ourselves?

                      p.s. Sorry for a bit of all over the place thoughts, text is not my preferred media.
                      ____
                      sorry for my bad english, i learned it from the book.

                      I too am inspired by homeless people when I buy a $1,000 jacket. Why don't we just shit on them? Oh, fashion, sometimes I wonder why I bother...(Faust)

                      Comment

                      • surver
                        Senior Member
                        • Oct 2007
                        • 638

                        #26
                        i hear you! been hovering over similar thoughts for years...

                        Comment

                        • docus
                          Senior Member
                          • Dec 2010
                          • 509

                          #27
                          It's interesting that so many of fashion's tropes for years now seem to have been about a denial of the modern world of technology, and have focused instead on folk themes harking back to the 'old ways', the cult of the artisan, etc. In the 80's, imagining the year 2012, you would've expected shiny silver suits and jet packs, not artisanally hand stitched Edwardian suit jackets. It's seems partly to be a reaction against mass production, and the uniformity that can bring, which is in conflict with our wish for our clothes to make us feel 'individual'. The 'old ways' still carry cachet and class signifiers that are very powerful motivators.
                          Last edited by docus; 06-22-2012, 05:54 AM.

                          Comment

                          • zamb
                            Senior Member
                            • Nov 2006
                            • 5834

                            #28
                            I dont have the time now to delve into the depth of the discussion as much as I'd like, but i think its important to point out something about technology and why a lot of people are not too keen on fabrics and clothing that are too technologically advanced.

                            Man at his core and in his proper state is at harmony with his environment,
                            Natural fibered like silks, woolens, cottons etc share a relationship with the physical aspects of the human being, the way no nylon, polyester or artificial fiber can...............even if those fibers are created for performance enhancement.

                            the technological advancement in cars, medicine, computers and so on while understandably good and beneficial to mankind, gives him a feeling of "alienness" and and awareness of his physical limitations of power over his environment and the need to use his intellect to create these compensatory devices to ease the tension of his limitations......................as such, hand made garments in natural fibers are always going to be more desirable even if they dont perform as well as garments advanced by technology, because hand made garments speaks of the natural artistry and creativity of the human being in a way that speaks of harmony rather than compensating for a disconnect.

                            Another thing again is that for all the benefits of technological advancements, industrialization has brought on a new set of problems for the human being, the waste and bi-products of these experiments, brings about another set of problems to solve, a different kind of challenge for mankind.................a no win situation, in a way that handmade garments in natural fibers do not.

                            will say more again when I got time

                            lots to do in this blistering summer heat in NYC
                            Last edited by zamb; 06-22-2012, 11:14 AM.
                            “You know,” he says, with a resilient smile, “it is a hard world for poets.”
                            .................................................. .......................


                            Zam Barrett Spring 2017 Now in stock

                            Comment

                            • Geoffrey B. Small
                              Senior Member
                              • Nov 2007
                              • 618

                              #29
                              .

                              Missing the Boat on what is modern, what is technology and what is next...


                              Sorry no time to write much either, but to back up Z, some of you people need to wake up a little and start paying attention to what is happening in the real world around you. We are racing towards 10 billion humans on this planet, and already today approaching only 7 billion people now... we are consuming the earth's critical natural resources (that all of us need for basic survival) at no less than 150 percent of the planet's capacity to sustain and replenish them. I am talking about uncontaminated air, potable water, agricultural topsoil and edible marine biology (fish, plankton and algaes) first and foremost. Hello? What kind of an outfit do you think you are going to sport today if you don't have those resources available to you anymore? The answer is nothing. You will be extinct. Like a Tyrannosaurus Rex. And your day is approaching faster than anyone can predict anymore. Just ask any scientist who currently is not being paid by the lobbies.

                              What some of you think is 'modern' is actually history.

                              It is pure Toast. And it is failing everywhere. Two and a half billion people are starving right now, because they have no food. 1 billion don't have drinkable water. 2 billion don't have toilets and are furthering the drinking water shortages. I'm not even going to get into all the oil, gas, nuclear and carbon victim numbers, issues and damages... And whether you know it or not, fashion is one of the major causes of their suffering because it ties up a ton of these resources just to "feed your need" to have something new. To have the "Next" that is just so so important for your stupid mindless existence... So, jet packs, iPhones and shiny stuff? F__k you people. Your minds are in the stone age. The "Next," the "future," of design, as you call it, is what is going to help solve the problems that the current design thinking and system has created, not make them worse. Period.

                              And what some still unaware people think is 'history' may very well be the future. We only got into this mess from what we have been doing since about 1850 onwards. Pull the plug on the electricity, petroleum supply, supermarket industrial food chain supply, and pre-made clothing and shelter so many billions of us today are so used to having and so dangerously dependent upon...and where would you be? I'll tell you. Lost. Like a fish out of water. How many of you would know where to find drinking water if your tap no longer worked and you couldn't go down and buy a bottle at your local convenience store? How many of you could grow your own food? Make your own textiles, clothing, basic tools and utensils? Build your own house or shelter to live in? A 3rd millenium BC Egyptian slave would be light years ahead of you technologically. He would know how to stay alive in that environment, and you would not.

                              And a native American Indian from the 18th century? Forget it, he would blow you away with his technology and know-how. You may want to think about it...and study a little bit about the history of human civilization on earth.

                              And for those of you design and fashion hot shots out there who are still unable to get this picture in your selfish little Marie Antoinette heads, I have one question for you:





                              Can you spell the word...



                              S - U - S - T - A - I - N - A - B - L - E ?




                              Any design concept that separates itself from nature and the real environment we live in, and does not address this as the very top priority on its list, is not the "next thing" in any sense of the word. It's a joke. It's Bullshit. And has no place on this earth anymore, unless you are willing to sign your name to, and agree to, the forced elimination of about 5 billion fellow human beings in this decade.


                              Without them, your idea of the future will work just fine.


                              For you.

                              Brilliant.


                              What a fashion genius you truly are.














                              photo credit: Eating like a pig by Barbi S ieightitall on flickr

                              .

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                              • 333
                                Senior Member
                                • Apr 2012
                                • 101

                                #30
                                ^Thanks Geoffrey. Thanks for speaking with authority and clarity. like an old testament prophet for today's fashion.

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