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Thread: Boris Bidjan Saberi

  1. #801

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    Quote Originally Posted by Faust View Post
    13we2, I imagine a lot of those storefronts are selling fakes.
    chinese consumers are way smarter than to buy fakes, this is what the industry calls paralleling or parallels which in where a store with a reputable name does B2B with someone for a cut and they ship the product to their stores on the low, or rather its individual resellers who dropship product from other stores, this kind of pattern is the new *hustling* when it comes to the importation of goods to china which otherwise would be hard to get.

    this kind of thing is rather rampant atm tbh
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    Try to use a phone camera in broad daylight or use a proper camera.
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    I've found it extremely pleasant and enthralling over repeated whiffs so I would highly recommend.

  2. #802

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    Quote Originally Posted by Faust View Post
    13we2, I imagine a lot of those storefronts are selling fakes.
    Haha then I would've said 200+ instead of 20. Also I'm aware of the scheme Trigger refers to but I wasn't including this kind in my last observation.

    These emerging newcomer stores I'm talking about are actually legitimate businesses - have (at least most of them I assume) direct contract with BBS as with all the other brands they are selling just like any other established buyer stores. I just doubt their BBS sales look promising to themselves at all, though. Maybe when their BBS forays have proved unfavorable after a year or 2, they'll drop it and just focus on more profitable brands - I should mention some "dark labels" are being quite popular in China now - notably Rick, Guidi, Marc Le Bihan, or even CCP footwear had its short-lived heyday. Some of these new stores bear a wide-ranged selection of brands like Alyx, Ambush, ACW (see I already came up with 3 for "A"), the infamous Greg Lauren, TB, or even off-white, etc, so I guess it's not that hard for them to stay in business, especially when the store owner is a 25-year-old college graduate and his father someone owns half a province's real estate.

    Regarding fake BBS, actually there has been a significant drop in recent years - as someone who has been closely surveilling this particular crime, fake BBS' prime was around 2013-2015, now only very limited styles and neglectable trading volume. And those few of the very BBS counterfeit makers have since busied themselves faking FOG, Supreme boxlogos, etc, and are doing pretty amazingly great, like the rest of the trendy Chinese counterfeiters, from what I can tell. The only fake that sells right now is the Salomon Bamba 2, of course, and funnily enough, the pirated "11" logo aesthetic - I've seen quite a few times on Chinese "TikTok" those Chinese kid influencers dancing in some yeezy style "streetwear" jacket and sweatpants with that 11 printed the size of a football, often follwed by some wtf print eg "11 by dark borijan design"...

  3. #803

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    https://metalmagazine.eu/en/post/int...-bidjan-saberi

    Quote

    You decided to stop showing your collections in Paris. Tell us more about this.

    Again, I asked myself, what should I do now? What I decided is that, hey, we cook slow, so we won’t enter this game. That’s why I decided to not have a fashion show in Paris anymore. There was a moment when I realized I got stressed thinking, ‘what do I present’ instead of ‘I have to present this’. If there’s a moment in the future when I want to talk, present or show again because I think it’s important culturally, then I will definitely do it. Otherwise, I won’t. Because it would be cheating on myself and on society. Nowadays, everything is confused, in the end, you have to copy because you have no time to create. Most of the designers I see today, they just repeat or copy.
    On the other side, I created and put so many things on the table that I feel like I want to step back a little bit and create what I feel and what is opportune at this stage of my life. Today, I want to do the perfect garment. At first sight, maybe you can’t see the difference, but if you try to figure out how the pattern or the production are done, then you’ll understand what’s behind this garment. It’s like a good plate. Of course, visually maybe they have the same appearance, but I think that we have to come to the point again where you feel which is the good plate. Everything is getting so fast that we have lost our feeling on things.

  4. #804

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    Interesting. Thank you!

  5. #805
    kitsch killer Faust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 13we2 View Post
    Haha then I would've said 200+ instead of 20. Also I'm aware of the scheme Trigger refers to but I wasn't including this kind in my last observation.

    These emerging newcomer stores I'm talking about are actually legitimate businesses - have (at least most of them I assume) direct contract with BBS as with all the other brands they are selling just like any other established buyer stores. I just doubt their BBS sales look promising to themselves at all, though. Maybe when their BBS forays have proved unfavorable after a year or 2, they'll drop it and just focus on more profitable brands - I should mention some "dark labels" are being quite popular in China now - notably Rick, Guidi, Marc Le Bihan, or even CCP footwear had its short-lived heyday. Some of these new stores bear a wide-ranged selection of brands like Alyx, Ambush, ACW (see I already came up with 3 for "A"), the infamous Greg Lauren, TB, or even off-white, etc, so I guess it's not that hard for them to stay in business, especially when the store owner is a 25-year-old college graduate and his father someone owns half a province's real estate.

    Regarding fake BBS, actually there has been a significant drop in recent years - as someone who has been closely surveilling this particular crime, fake BBS' prime was around 2013-2015, now only very limited styles and neglectable trading volume. And those few of the very BBS counterfeit makers have since busied themselves faking FOG, Supreme boxlogos, etc, and are doing pretty amazingly great, like the rest of the trendy Chinese counterfeiters, from what I can tell. The only fake that sells right now is the Salomon Bamba 2, of course, and funnily enough, the pirated "11" logo aesthetic - I've seen quite a few times on Chinese "TikTok" those Chinese kid influencers dancing in some yeezy style "streetwear" jacket and sweatpants with that 11 printed the size of a football, often follwed by some wtf print eg "11 by dark borijan design"...

    Thank you for this report, haha! Good to know. What's being faked is an excellent indicator of what's popular.
    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

    StyleZeitgeist Magazine

  6. #806

  7. #807

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    Does anybody know what's up with the price increase of the BBS t-shirts? Pricing has increased to $400 range. Mr. Saberi if you are reading this...C'mon Dawg!

  8. #808

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    Someone please explain the P13's excessive drop crotch to me. I have tried on the P13s three times, and despite their backbreaking price I would buy them in an instant for the incredible fabric treatment, body molding, and fit around the legs. Agin: They are perfect -- but I can't get past the butt!!! Between mainline and 11, I own four Boris pieces, so I'm a fan. But what's the appeal of the saggy butt? Would P13 owners here rather have a more traditional drop? And why do so many other avante garde designers (for lack of a better term) go with the drop crotch? I'm thinking 10SEI0OTTO and Masnada in particular. I totally support anyone who likes the drop crotch... but if someone could "explain" it, that would be much appreciated.

  9. #809

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    Quote Originally Posted by SanFranciscojp View Post
    Someone please explain the P13's excessive drop crotch to me. I have tried on the P13s three times, and despite their backbreaking price I would buy them in an instant for the incredible fabric treatment, body molding, and fit around the legs. Agin: They are perfect -- but I can't get past the butt!!! Between mainline and 11, I own four Boris pieces, so I'm a fan. But what's the appeal of the saggy butt? Would P13 owners here rather have a more traditional drop? And why do so many other avante garde designers (for lack of a better term) go with the drop crotch? I'm thinking 10SEI0OTTO and Masnada in particular. I totally support anyone who likes the drop crotch... but if someone could "explain" it, that would be much appreciated.
    So that you can wear your adult diapers with it. Taking a dump on toilets is overrated. Filling that diaper with poop until it sags is where it's at. ;)

    In all seriousness though, I think it has something to do with skateboarding culture. At least, that's the answer I read before. I don't skateboard so I can't verify that.

  10. #810

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    Having disposable time is a luxury and a dropped crotch pant makes running or walking fast impossible, forcing its wearer to stroll and appreciate their surroundings.
    Also, they remind me of those sick Karl Kani baggies I had in high school.
    "The only rule is don't be boring and dress cute wherever you go. Life is too short to blend in."
    -Paris Hilton

  11. #811

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    Quote Originally Posted by SanFranciscojp View Post
    I'm thinking 10SEI0OTTO and Masnada in particular.
    Well the reason those labels would have it is because others have it - they are copy cats that knock off Boris and Rick heavily.

    As for your original question, I think this is just a style preference. I do agree that it's a pretty low drop crotch, I don't wear it myself.
    "AVANT GUARDE HIGHEST FASHION. NOW NOW this is it people, these are the brands no one fucking knows and people are like WTF. they do everything by hand in their freaking secret basement and shit."

    STYLEZEITGEIST MAGAZINE | BLOG

  12. #812

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    Quote Originally Posted by lowrey View Post
    Well the reason those labels would have it is because others have it - they are copy cats that knock off Boris and Rick heavily.

    As for your original question, I think this is just a style preference. I do agree that it's a pretty low drop crotch, I don't wear it myself.
    agreed Lowrey, 10sei whatever and Masnada are hardly 'avant-garde' and they are not designers. They are typical Italian commercial outfits trying desperately to look like designers... and they copy like crazy. Drop crotch is a concept. It's a design element. You like it, you don't like it- nobody really cares. We did our first drop-crotch pant 18 years ago in 2002. In the early 2000's it was directional. That means it was being worked on and presented and worn by the real avant-garde people in the game. Boris as a collection wasn't even born yet, Carol was also developing good ideas at the time on this concept and perfected them later. But the other 2 brands? They were not even in the game, and they still aren't. Nobody is forcing you to buy the pant SanFranciscojp. And if the price is so "backbreaking" I suggest you save your back and stop complaining about not buying it to everyone on the forum. Just don't buy it. Who cares? Leave Boris alone and save your money for something you can afford and might like better. Asking for an "explanation" is a bit excessive.

  13. #813

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    My early 2000's fashion following was definitely peripheral and I certainly defer to Mr. GBS who was creating in the midst of it. I will offer what I saw going on in the microcosm of southern California. Delicate ground here but "Gangstas" were wearing normal jeans very low, giving the drop crotch appearance and high top basketball- like tennis shoes floppy and unlaced. Our (my friends and I)understanding, a mix of street conversation and light fashion reading, was that in prison, belts and shoe laces were taken away from the inmates to prevent suicide or weapon use. This "look" was either picked up by or, often, continued "outside" by rappers. That prison persona was much more than just worn, it was people's life. Oversized clothing was also an outcome of prison garb.
    My understanding was that these origins rippled outward, recognized and commodified by clothing manufacturers, working their way up to be discovered and embraced by higher and higher levels of the fashion industry.
    I'll open myself up to knowledgable criticism and clarification, having given my thoughts from a particular place and time.

  14. #814

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    Quote Originally Posted by zen dog View Post
    My early 2000's fashion following was definitely peripheral and I certainly defer to Mr. GBS who was creating in the midst of it. I will offer what I saw going on in the microcosm of southern California. Delicate ground here but "Gangstas" were wearing normal jeans very low, giving the drop crotch appearance and high top basketball- like tennis shoes floppy and unlaced. Our (my friends and I)understanding, a mix of street conversation and light fashion reading, was that in prison, belts and shoe laces were taken away from the inmates to prevent suicide or weapon use. This "look" was either picked up by or, often, continued "outside" by rappers. That prison persona was much more than just worn, it was people's life. Oversized clothing was also an outcome of prison garb.

    My understanding was that these origins rippled outward, recognized and commodified by clothing manufacturers, working their way up to be discovered and embraced by higher and higher levels of the fashion industry.

    I'll open myself up to knowledgable criticism and clarification, having given my thoughts from a particular place and time.


    Dear zen dog, yes I can confirm that what you are describing was a key part in this. Many people into rap were wearing big denim pants and lower and lower. Jeans makers responded with models that were increasingly baggier and wider in leg and then longer in the crotch--particularly publicized mainstream eventually by Calvin Klein with Marky Mark ad campaigns which also simultaneously promoted logo'd underwear which was worn higher than the the exterior trouser and thus made visible the waistband of the underwear which was heavlily graphicized with brand name. In Europe, principally in Italy, a few pioneering designers working there including ccp, ourselves, Rick Owens, and honestly--fast moving Italian denim designers at the time were all working on a slightly different idea that combined the dropped crotch with very narrow leg and bottom instead of baggy. This was quite different than the gangsta thing and in fact was being done by some Italian kids using vintage military (mainly italian ww2) pants that already were cut this way almost jodphur type--longer crotch, relaxed thigh then much tighter from knee on down (to accomodate boots etc.). Our first research during 2000-2002 period led us straight to historic european military jodhpur and Afghanistan and middle eastern indigenous historical trouser patterns. Very early for the industry. Like ccp, we carved out some niche clientele sales with it and continue to sell the models in limited numbers via our archives. The more industrial & commercial outfits like Olmar & Mirta were able to exploit things on much wider scale over time with Rick Owens, particularly Dark Shadow brand, alongside the other big Italian jeans brands like Diesel, Replay, Energie, D&G who all went with the look at one point or another.

  15. #815

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    When it comes to clothing legacies, just like lots of foods are similiar across different cultures, so are clothes from different peoples and cultures, one probably shouldn't seek to attribute a certain style to one specific origin, like the old tongue in cheek question, "Who invented noodles?"

    Think of the harem pants, we all know it originated from (predominantly) India. Yet where did Yohji's pants come from? You kind of think of the samurais and ninjas from old time Japanese movies. Well if you watch Kungfu movies, you may come across these ancient Chinese Shaolin or Daoist martial artists in their fighting pants, which is kind of harem-y oftentimes with the lower leg wrapped in bindings giving the leg a tapered look. I even remember seeing old photos of rickshaw drivers in late Qing Dynasty of China wearing drop crotch work pants, hems rolled up, m-ankles out. Yet African Americans, supposedly not under the influences of samurais or One Thousand and One Nights, invented their sagged jeans just out of the blue. Sometimes humans just have a shared instinct, like cocking the cap peak.

    Boris has often admitted his inspiration is a mix of hip-hop/skateboarding culture and mideast/nomadic dreassing customs, both of which naturally contain the element of the drapy/dangled crotch. As for the socal sagging trend, there's no arguing that it first started among African Americans, if you google "sagging pants", there will come up lots of explanations. Apart from zen dog's prison theory, I've also heard some say due to their prevalent poverty, African American parents tend to buy larger clothes for their kids so that the clothes could last longer, even passed down to younger siblings. Or some people suppose black people simply have large butts and most pants they find in a mall are simply not African-friendly. Some say in addition to prison, sanitation workers and janitors were only issued with one-size-fits-all uniforms and apparently in order to make fit for the bulkest guys, the uniforms were always extra-large, etc. As a result, in the 80s-90s, with the rise of Black Power Movement and hip-hop, black youngsters started using such styles as their dress code to play against the mainstream. Which brings up SanFranciscojp's question why drop-crotch is almost like a must-have for sz brands, because many of these brands don't want look mainstream, they want to look badass - and I personally think "ars gratia artis" isn't a bad attitude! And also as commonly known drape and flowy is an essential parole to the gothic aesthetic from medieval times.

    PS As for p13s, despite the facts that Boris himself always wears them sagged and that some stores also style their models that way, I don't particularly feel like it's a sagging model, at least compared to p4, p15, p23, etc, and I personally have always worn my p13s (all tf xtf models though) the regular way without problems, except for this pair that is too large for me as I don't like putting a belt through them. If you have trouble lifting them up that's probably because you have a nice butt! Try different sizes and see if it improves.

  16. #816

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    Quote Originally Posted by 13we2 View Post
    When it comes to clothing legacies, just like lots of foods are similiar across different cultures, so are clothes from different peoples and cultures, one probably shouldn't seek to attribute a certain style to one specific origin, like the old tongue in cheek question, "Who invented noodles?"

    Think of the harem pants, we all know it originated from (predominantly) India. Yet where did Yohji's pants come from? You kind of think of the samurais and ninjas from old time Japanese movies. Well if you watch Kungfu movies, you may come across these ancient Chinese Shaolin or Daoist martial artists in their fighting pants, which is kind of harem-y oftentimes with the lower leg wrapped in bindings giving the leg a tapered look. I even remember seeing old photos of rickshaw drivers in late Qing Dynasty of China wearing drop crotch work pants, hems rolled up, m-ankles out. Yet African Americans, supposedly not under the influences of samurais or One Thousand and One Nights, invented their sagged jeans just out of the blue. Sometimes humans just have a shared instinct, like cocking the cap peak.

    Boris has often admitted his inspiration is a mix of hip-hop/skateboarding culture and mideast/nomadic dreassing customs, both of which naturally contain the element of the drapy/dangled crotch. As for the socal sagging trend, there's no arguing that it first started among African Americans, if you google "sagging pants", there will come up lots of explanations. Apart from zen dog's prison theory, I've also heard some say due to their prevalent poverty, African American parents tend to buy larger clothes for their kids so that the clothes could last longer, even passed down to younger siblings. Or some people suppose black people simply have large butts and most pants they find in a mall are simply not African-friendly. Some say in addition to prison, sanitation workers and janitors were only issued with one-size-fits-all uniforms and apparently in order to make fit for the bulkest guys, the uniforms were always extra-large, etc. As a result, in the 80s-90s, with the rise of Black Power Movement and hip-hop, black youngsters started using such styles as their dress code to play against the mainstream. Which brings up SanFranciscojp's question why drop-crotch is almost like a must-have for sz brands, because many of these brands don't want look mainstream, they want to look badass - and I personally think "ars gratia artis" isn't a bad attitude! And also as commonly known drape and flowy is an essential parole to the gothic aesthetic from medieval times.

    PS As for p13s, despite the facts that Boris himself always wears them sagged and that some stores also style their models that way, I don't particularly feel like it's a sagging model, at least compared to p4, p15, p23, etc, and I personally have always worn my p13s (all tf xtf models though) the regular way without problems, except for this pair that is too large for me as I don't like putting a belt through them. If you have trouble lifting them up that's probably because you have a nice butt! Try different sizes and see if it improves.
    "african american parents"??? really man... wow if this was a essay I would definitely fail u for 1990's racism.
    In America they're not referred to as African American for quite some time, i think just black will do. And assuming only black parents bought clothes a little big is so fuckin ridiculous. People have kids, and then save the clothes for the little ones it's a common thing, u don't buy clothes that fit kids like adults all the time because .. and this is pretty common knowledge, kids grow. The next time u wanna write "African American" ask a black friend if thats cool, if u don't have a black friend then u should probably examine why it is that u don't.

    As far as clothes, the more u examine jackets , pants, shirts etc.. the more u realize that most of the standards of menswear are of military origin.

  17. #817

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    ^ Are you black or is this just an example of being offended by proxy?

  18. #818

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    i'm just sensible. Got no time for racism even unintended.

  19. #819

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    Quote Originally Posted by upsilonkng View Post
    i'm just sensible. Got no time for racism even unintended.
    Sorry for my ignorance and thanks for clearing this up! I'm Chinese based out of Beijing and only know a few black international students in my school so regretfully haven't learnt this term being offensive.

    The reason I'd opt for African American, as I did, if I were writing an essay, would be that France and Nigeria have black parents, too, but I'm talking about black folks inside the USA, so I guess I should say "black American parents", "American black parents", yes?

    As I pointed out, I was quoting google search results. Yes, these situations more or less happen everywhere on earth, so let's just not overlook the then social-political context, I always have great respect for black culture.
    Last edited by 13we2; 03-08-2020 at 02:18 PM.

  20. #820

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    Quote Originally Posted by 13we2 View Post
    Sorry for my ignorance and thanks for clearing this up! I'm Chinese based out of Beijing and only know a few black international students in my school so regretfully haven't learnt this term being offensive.

    The reason I'd opt for African American, as I did, if I were writing an essay, would be that France and Nigeria have black parents, too, but I'm talking about black folks inside the USA, so I guess I should say "black American parents", "American black parents", yes?

    As I pointed out, I was quoting google search results. Yes, these situations more or less happen everywhere on earth, so let's just not overlook the then social-political context, I always have great respect for black culture.
    What's Nutty to me is that no one has plainly mentioned that the drop crotch is not just a single entity and just part of a grander silhouette.

    In the bbs context there's drop crotch so when it lines up with the long tee It elongates the torso and gives you an alternative proportion.

    The p13 and other drop crotch achieves this silhouette
    Quote Originally Posted by unwashed View Post
    Try to use a phone camera in broad daylight or use a proper camera.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ahimsa View Post
    I've found it extremely pleasant and enthralling over repeated whiffs so I would highly recommend.

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