Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Boris Bidjan Saberi

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Geoffrey B. Small
    Senior Member
    • Nov 2007
    • 618

    Originally posted by lowrey View Post
    Well the reason those labels would have it is because others have it - they are copy cats that knock off Boris and Rick heavily.

    As for your original question, I think this is just a style preference. I do agree that it's a pretty low drop crotch, I don't wear it myself.
    agreed Lowrey, 10sei whatever and Masnada are hardly 'avant-garde' and they are not designers. They are typical Italian commercial outfits trying desperately to look like designers... and they copy like crazy. Drop crotch is a concept. It's a design element. You like it, you don't like it- nobody really cares. We did our first drop-crotch pant 18 years ago in 2002. In the early 2000's it was directional. That means it was being worked on and presented and worn by the real avant-garde people in the game. Boris as a collection wasn't even born yet, Carol was also developing good ideas at the time on this concept and perfected them later. But the other 2 brands? They were not even in the game, and they still aren't. Nobody is forcing you to buy the pant SanFranciscojp. And if the price is so "backbreaking" I suggest you save your back and stop complaining about not buying it to everyone on the forum. Just don't buy it. Who cares? Leave Boris alone and save your money for something you can afford and might like better. Asking for an "explanation" is a bit excessive.

    Comment

    • zen dog
      Senior Member
      • Jan 2014
      • 212

      My early 2000's fashion following was definitely peripheral and I certainly defer to Mr. GBS who was creating in the midst of it. I will offer what I saw going on in the microcosm of southern California. Delicate ground here but "Gangstas" were wearing normal jeans very low, giving the drop crotch appearance and high top basketball- like tennis shoes floppy and unlaced. Our (my friends and I)understanding, a mix of street conversation and light fashion reading, was that in prison, belts and shoe laces were taken away from the inmates to prevent suicide or weapon use. This "look" was either picked up by or, often, continued "outside" by rappers. That prison persona was much more than just worn, it was people's life. Oversized clothing was also an outcome of prison garb.
      My understanding was that these origins rippled outward, recognized and commodified by clothing manufacturers, working their way up to be discovered and embraced by higher and higher levels of the fashion industry.
      I'll open myself up to knowledgable criticism and clarification, having given my thoughts from a particular place and time.

      Comment

      • Geoffrey B. Small
        Senior Member
        • Nov 2007
        • 618

        Originally posted by zen dog View Post
        My early 2000's fashion following was definitely peripheral and I certainly defer to Mr. GBS who was creating in the midst of it. I will offer what I saw going on in the microcosm of southern California. Delicate ground here but "Gangstas" were wearing normal jeans very low, giving the drop crotch appearance and high top basketball- like tennis shoes floppy and unlaced. Our (my friends and I)understanding, a mix of street conversation and light fashion reading, was that in prison, belts and shoe laces were taken away from the inmates to prevent suicide or weapon use. This "look" was either picked up by or, often, continued "outside" by rappers. That prison persona was much more than just worn, it was people's life. Oversized clothing was also an outcome of prison garb.

        My understanding was that these origins rippled outward, recognized and commodified by clothing manufacturers, working their way up to be discovered and embraced by higher and higher levels of the fashion industry.

        I'll open myself up to knowledgable criticism and clarification, having given my thoughts from a particular place and time.


        Dear zen dog, yes I can confirm that what you are describing was a key part in this. Many people into rap were wearing big denim pants and lower and lower. Jeans makers responded with models that were increasingly baggier and wider in leg and then longer in the crotch--particularly publicized mainstream eventually by Calvin Klein with Marky Mark ad campaigns which also simultaneously promoted logo'd underwear which was worn higher than the the exterior trouser and thus made visible the waistband of the underwear which was heavlily graphicized with brand name. In Europe, principally in Italy, a few pioneering designers working there including ccp, ourselves, Rick Owens, and honestly--fast moving Italian denim designers at the time were all working on a slightly different idea that combined the dropped crotch with very narrow leg and bottom instead of baggy. This was quite different than the gangsta thing and in fact was being done by some Italian kids using vintage military (mainly italian ww2) pants that already were cut this way almost jodphur type--longer crotch, relaxed thigh then much tighter from knee on down (to accomodate boots etc.). Our first research during 2000-2002 period led us straight to historic european military jodhpur and Afghanistan and middle eastern indigenous historical trouser patterns. Very early for the industry. Like ccp, we carved out some niche clientele sales with it and continue to sell the models in limited numbers via our archives. The more industrial & commercial outfits like Olmar & Mirta were able to exploit things on much wider scale over time with Rick Owens, particularly Dark Shadow brand, alongside the other big Italian jeans brands like Diesel, Replay, Energie, D&G who all went with the look at one point or another.

        Comment

        • 13we2
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2015
          • 226

          When it comes to clothing legacies, just like lots of foods are similiar across different cultures, so are clothes from different peoples and cultures, one probably shouldn't seek to attribute a certain style to one specific origin, like the old tongue in cheek question, "Who invented noodles?"

          Think of the harem pants, we all know it originated from (predominantly) India. Yet where did Yohji's pants come from? You kind of think of the samurais and ninjas from old time Japanese movies. Well if you watch Kungfu movies, you may come across these ancient Chinese Shaolin or Daoist martial artists in their fighting pants, which is kind of harem-y oftentimes with the lower leg wrapped in bindings giving the leg a tapered look. I even remember seeing old photos of rickshaw drivers in late Qing Dynasty of China wearing drop crotch work pants, hems rolled up, m-ankles out. Yet African Americans, supposedly not under the influences of samurais or One Thousand and One Nights, invented their sagged jeans just out of the blue. Sometimes humans just have a shared instinct, like cocking the cap peak.

          Boris has often admitted his inspiration is a mix of hip-hop/skateboarding culture and mideast/nomadic dreassing customs, both of which naturally contain the element of the drapy/dangled crotch. As for the socal sagging trend, there's no arguing that it first started among African Americans, if you google "sagging pants", there will come up lots of explanations. Apart from zen dog's prison theory, I've also heard some say due to their prevalent poverty, African American parents tend to buy larger clothes for their kids so that the clothes could last longer, even passed down to younger siblings. Or some people suppose black people simply have large butts and most pants they find in a mall are simply not African-friendly. Some say in addition to prison, sanitation workers and janitors were only issued with one-size-fits-all uniforms and apparently in order to make fit for the bulkest guys, the uniforms were always extra-large, etc. As a result, in the 80s-90s, with the rise of Black Power Movement and hip-hop, black youngsters started using such styles as their dress code to play against the mainstream. Which brings up SanFranciscojp's question why drop-crotch is almost like a must-have for sz brands, because many of these brands don't want look mainstream, they want to look badass - and I personally think "ars gratia artis" isn't a bad attitude! And also as commonly known drape and flowy is an essential parole to the gothic aesthetic from medieval times.

          PS As for p13s, despite the facts that Boris himself always wears them sagged and that some stores also style their models that way, I don't particularly feel like it's a sagging model, at least compared to p4, p15, p23, etc, and I personally have always worn my p13s (all tf xtf models though) the regular way without problems, except for this pair that is too large for me as I don't like putting a belt through them. If you have trouble lifting them up that's probably because you have a nice butt! Try different sizes and see if it improves.

          Comment

          • upsilonkng
            Senior Member
            • May 2010
            • 874

            Originally posted by 13we2 View Post
            When it comes to clothing legacies, just like lots of foods are similiar across different cultures, so are clothes from different peoples and cultures, one probably shouldn't seek to attribute a certain style to one specific origin, like the old tongue in cheek question, "Who invented noodles?"

            Think of the harem pants, we all know it originated from (predominantly) India. Yet where did Yohji's pants come from? You kind of think of the samurais and ninjas from old time Japanese movies. Well if you watch Kungfu movies, you may come across these ancient Chinese Shaolin or Daoist martial artists in their fighting pants, which is kind of harem-y oftentimes with the lower leg wrapped in bindings giving the leg a tapered look. I even remember seeing old photos of rickshaw drivers in late Qing Dynasty of China wearing drop crotch work pants, hems rolled up, m-ankles out. Yet African Americans, supposedly not under the influences of samurais or One Thousand and One Nights, invented their sagged jeans just out of the blue. Sometimes humans just have a shared instinct, like cocking the cap peak.

            Boris has often admitted his inspiration is a mix of hip-hop/skateboarding culture and mideast/nomadic dreassing customs, both of which naturally contain the element of the drapy/dangled crotch. As for the socal sagging trend, there's no arguing that it first started among African Americans, if you google "sagging pants", there will come up lots of explanations. Apart from zen dog's prison theory, I've also heard some say due to their prevalent poverty, African American parents tend to buy larger clothes for their kids so that the clothes could last longer, even passed down to younger siblings. Or some people suppose black people simply have large butts and most pants they find in a mall are simply not African-friendly. Some say in addition to prison, sanitation workers and janitors were only issued with one-size-fits-all uniforms and apparently in order to make fit for the bulkest guys, the uniforms were always extra-large, etc. As a result, in the 80s-90s, with the rise of Black Power Movement and hip-hop, black youngsters started using such styles as their dress code to play against the mainstream. Which brings up SanFranciscojp's question why drop-crotch is almost like a must-have for sz brands, because many of these brands don't want look mainstream, they want to look badass - and I personally think "ars gratia artis" isn't a bad attitude! And also as commonly known drape and flowy is an essential parole to the gothic aesthetic from medieval times.

            PS As for p13s, despite the facts that Boris himself always wears them sagged and that some stores also style their models that way, I don't particularly feel like it's a sagging model, at least compared to p4, p15, p23, etc, and I personally have always worn my p13s (all tf xtf models though) the regular way without problems, except for this pair that is too large for me as I don't like putting a belt through them. If you have trouble lifting them up that's probably because you have a nice butt! Try different sizes and see if it improves.
            "african american parents"??? really man... wow if this was a essay I would definitely fail u for 1990's racism.
            In America they're not referred to as African American for quite some time, i think just black will do. And assuming only black parents bought clothes a little big is so fuckin ridiculous. People have kids, and then save the clothes for the little ones it's a common thing, u don't buy clothes that fit kids like adults all the time because .. and this is pretty common knowledge, kids grow. The next time u wanna write "African American" ask a black friend if thats cool, if u don't have a black friend then u should probably examine why it is that u don't.

            As far as clothes, the more u examine jackets , pants, shirts etc.. the more u realize that most of the standards of menswear are of military origin.

            Comment

            • nyarkies
              Member
              • Feb 2012
              • 69

              ^ Are you black or is this just an example of being offended by proxy?

              Comment

              • upsilonkng
                Senior Member
                • May 2010
                • 874

                i'm just sensible. Got no time for racism even unintended.

                Comment

                • 13we2
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2015
                  • 226

                  Originally posted by upsilonkng View Post
                  i'm just sensible. Got no time for racism even unintended.
                  Sorry for my ignorance and thanks for clearing this up! I'm Chinese based out of Beijing and only know a few black international students in my school so regretfully haven't learnt this term being offensive.

                  The reason I'd opt for African American, as I did, if I were writing an essay, would be that France and Nigeria have black parents, too, but I'm talking about black folks inside the USA, so I guess I should say "black American parents", "American black parents", yes?

                  As I pointed out, I was quoting google search results. Yes, these situations more or less happen everywhere on earth, so let's just not overlook the then social-political context, I always have great respect for black culture.
                  Last edited by 13we2; 03-08-2020, 02:18 PM.

                  Comment

                  • TriggerDiscipline
                    Senior Member
                    • Apr 2013
                    • 859

                    Originally posted by 13we2 View Post
                    Sorry for my ignorance and thanks for clearing this up! I'm Chinese based out of Beijing and only know a few black international students in my school so regretfully haven't learnt this term being offensive.

                    The reason I'd opt for African American, as I did, if I were writing an essay, would be that France and Nigeria have black parents, too, but I'm talking about black folks inside the USA, so I guess I should say "black American parents", "American black parents", yes?

                    As I pointed out, I was quoting google search results. Yes, these situations more or less happen everywhere on earth, so let's just not overlook the then social-political context, I always have great respect for black culture.
                    What's Nutty to me is that no one has plainly mentioned that the drop crotch is not just a single entity and just part of a grander silhouette.

                    In the bbs context there's drop crotch so when it lines up with the long tee It elongates the torso and gives you an alternative proportion.

                    The p13 and other drop crotch achieves this silhouette
                    Originally posted by unwashed
                    Try to use a phone camera in broad daylight or use a proper camera.
                    Originally posted by Ahimsa
                    I've found it extremely pleasant and enthralling over repeated whiffs so I would highly recommend.

                    Comment

                    • dji
                      Senior Member
                      • Feb 2008
                      • 3020

                      Originally posted by TriggerDiscipline View Post
                      What's Nutty to me is that no one has plainly mentioned that the drop crotch is not just a single entity and just part of a grander silhouette.

                      In the bbs context there's drop crotch so when it lines up with the long tee It elongates the torso and gives you an alternative proportion.

                      The p13 and other drop crotch achieves this silhouette
                      This is true, otherwise the long tees basically look like a t-shirt dress..

                      Comment

                      • Faust
                        kitsch killer
                        • Sep 2006
                        • 37852

                        Originally posted by Nickefuge View Post
                        Having disposable time is a luxury and a dropped crotch pant makes running or walking fast impossible, forcing its wearer to stroll and appreciate their surroundings.
                        Also, they remind me of those sick Karl Kani baggies I had in high school.

                        Our own Veblen!!! :-)
                        Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                        StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                        Comment

                        • Faust
                          kitsch killer
                          • Sep 2006
                          • 37852

                          Originally posted by SanFranciscojp View Post
                          Someone please explain the P13's excessive drop crotch to me. I have tried on the P13s three times, and despite their backbreaking price I would buy them in an instant for the incredible fabric treatment, body molding, and fit around the legs. Agin: They are perfect -- but I can't get past the butt!!! Between mainline and 11, I own four Boris pieces, so I'm a fan. But what's the appeal of the saggy butt? Would P13 owners here rather have a more traditional drop? And why do so many other avante garde designers (for lack of a better term) go with the drop crotch? I'm thinking 10SEI0OTTO and Masnada in particular. I totally support anyone who likes the drop crotch... but if someone could "explain" it, that would be much appreciated.
                          For Boris it's basically a combination of skating culture and hip-hop culture that he grew up with. Boris loves referencing his formative years. As do I as a wearer. Like Geoffrey says, the others are just copycats.

                          But he also has versions that are not excessively dropped, and that's what I wear.
                          Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                          StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                          Comment

                          • Faust
                            kitsch killer
                            • Sep 2006
                            • 37852

                            Originally posted by 13we2 View Post
                            Sorry for my ignorance and thanks for clearing this up! I'm Chinese based out of Beijing and only know a few black international students in my school so regretfully haven't learnt this term being offensive.

                            The reason I'd opt for African American, as I did, if I were writing an essay, would be that France and Nigeria have black parents, too, but I'm talking about black folks inside the USA, so I guess I should say "black American parents", "American black parents", yes?

                            As I pointed out, I was quoting google search results. Yes, these situations more or less happen everywhere on earth, so let's just not overlook the then social-political context, I always have great respect for black culture.
                            It's cool - Americans expect everyone else in the world to conform to their culture wars. Call it neoneocolonialism.
                            Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                            StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                            Comment

                            • mikemikemike
                              Senior Member
                              • Jun 2011
                              • 120

                              faust do you have any insight on why the BBS nyc store went away? were people just not buying?

                              Comment

                              • p2h
                                Junior Member
                                • Jan 2014
                                • 19

                                Hello,
                                I'm experiencing a very wierd issue with my Bambas 4.
                                They are 4 months old (december), worn maybe 10 to 15 times max but noticed the heel counter is creasing on the left shoe.
                                I started to check the shoe construction and it appears there is no heel counter !
                                It is simply a leather layer plus a layer lining with no reinforcement...
                                I ve stopped wearing them since february and brought them to a cobbler but he just added an other layer of leather when I was asking to add a hard heel counter.
                                I've carefully removed everything he made and I'm now looking for a solution.
                                Should I contact BBS sales or simply bring them to an other cobbler ?

                                Also which is happening on the left foot will occur on the right as this is the same exact construction but a bit harder.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X
                                😀
                                🥰
                                🤢
                                😎
                                😡
                                👍
                                👎