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  • laika
    moderator
    • Sep 2006
    • 3787

    Approaches to fashion

    Originally posted by Faust
    And I honestly don't think that fashion, with a few exceptions, renders itself well to academic discussion aside from cultural studies (which, IMHO, is a questionable academic discipline to begin with). I don't know how else to explain it. Personally, I will take a good Guy Trebay article over a Christopher Breward book any day - I think it is more relevant to conversation about fashion.
    I kind of agree with you in principle (although it would be an interesting topic to debate) but honestly, fashion has become so painfully boring in the last 20something years that intellectual (not necessarily "academic) discourse actually enlivens it, if only in a tiny corner of the room. Another way to say this is that fashion itself has become academic, in a slightly different sense of the word.

    I do agree completely about cultural studies...basically a hybrid of faux-academic and journalism and the name is terrible.
    ...I mean the ephemeral, the fugitive, the contingent, the half of art whose other half is the eternal and the immutable.
  • 525252
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 246

    #2
    Originally posted by Faust
    Yes, there are :-) I did not mean to offend you. What I mean is that hyper-intellectual discussions tend to happen among a very narrow circle of people that often render them irrelevant to the conversation or commentary at large. And I honestly don't think that fashion, with a few exceptions, renders itself well to academic discussion aside from cultural studies (which, IMHO, is a questionable academic discipline to begin with). I don't know how else to explain it. Personally, I will take a good Guy Trebay article over a Christopher Breward book any day - I think it is more relevant to conversation about fashion.
    You, sir, are an old fart.

    [exit stage]

    Comment

    • laika
      moderator
      • Sep 2006
      • 3787

      #3
      ^I have been trying to switch him from the new yorker to harper's for some years now, but he just won't quit. that and the robert hughes.

      joking aside, are you advocating the discipline of cultural studies, or simply an academic discourse on fashion?
      ...I mean the ephemeral, the fugitive, the contingent, the half of art whose other half is the eternal and the immutable.

      Comment

      • Faust
        kitsch killer
        • Sep 2006
        • 37852

        #4
        Because fashion* is not a serious** subject and the attempts by some academics to make it serious by applying the same highfalutin, dead academic style of writing as in other disciplines makes the whole thing even more fake than it already is. I don't understand why fashion needs to go from intelligent to intellectual.

        *Fashion as in its aesthetic essence and cultural impact.

        **Serious, as in important for answering questions about the nature of the individual, society, and nature.
        Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

        StyleZeitgeist Magazine

        Comment

        • michael_kard
          Senior Member
          • Oct 2010
          • 2152

          #5
          Fashion is not important for answering questions about the nature of the individual and society? That's a disappointing thing to hear from someone who I thought was an advocate of 'more than meets the eye'. I must have misunderstood you.
          ENDYMA / Archival fashion & Consignment
          Helmut Lang 1986-2005 | Ann Demeulemeester | Raf Simons | Burberry Prorsum | and more...

          Comment

          • BSR
            Senior Member
            • Aug 2008
            • 1562

            #6
            Originally posted by Faust View Post
            Because fashion* is not a serious** subject and the attempts by some academics to make it serious by applying the same highfalutin, dead academic style of writing as in other disciplines makes the whole thing even more fake than it already is. I don't understand why fashion needs to go from intelligent to intellectual.

            *Fashion as in its aesthetic essence and cultural impact.

            **Serious, as in important for answering questions about the nature of the individual, society, and nature.
            we should start a new topic 'how to talk about fashion', devoted to the various relevant points of view / techniques / approaches one can adopt when one wants to discuss fashion and clothing in an interesting way.
            pix

            Originally posted by Fuuma
            Fuck you and your viewpoint, I hate this depoliticized environment where every opinion should be respected, no matter how moronic. My avatar was chosen just for you, die in a ditch fucker.

            Comment

            • 525252
              Senior Member
              • Dec 2010
              • 246

              #7
              Originally posted by Faust View Post
              Because fashion* is not a serious** subject and the attempts by some academics to make it serious by applying the same highfalutin, dead academic style of writing as in other disciplines makes the whole thing even more fake than it already is. I don't understand why fashion needs to go from intelligent to intellectual.

              *Fashion as in its aesthetic essence and cultural impact.

              **Serious, as in important for answering questions about the nature of the individual, society, and nature.
              and is the presence of such pseudo philosophical, fake, inauthentic, pretentious, highfalutin writing - is that offensive to you? If it really was such junk below everyone, I don't know why people don't just move on over the top of it.

              I would argue that fashion is not a serious enough subject- and it is the reverse attitude that is in part responsible for more than half the things complained about in the NEXT thread. Yes, I would argue, but it seems that would be an unpopular thing to do.

              Originally posted by BSR
              we should start a new topic 'how to talk about fashion', devoted to the various relevant points of view / techniques / approaches one can adopt when one wants to discuss fashion and clothing in an interesting way.
              omg can't wait

              Comment

              • 525252
                Senior Member
                • Dec 2010
                • 246

                #8
                but seriously guys is this a joke

                Comment

                • Chant
                  Banned
                  • Jun 2008
                  • 2775

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Faust View Post
                  Because fashion* is not a serious** subject and the attempts by some academics to make it serious by applying the same highfalutin, dead academic style of writing as in other disciplines makes the whole thing even more fake than it already is. I don't understand why fashion needs to go from intelligent to intellectual.

                  *Fashion as in its aesthetic essence and cultural impact.

                  **Serious, as in important for answering questions about the nature of the individual, society, and nature.
                  Hey, this looks like a great manifesto for the new SZ (where only numbers count ). I love it.

                  Comment

                  • Faust
                    kitsch killer
                    • Sep 2006
                    • 37852

                    #10
                    Originally posted by 525252 View Post
                    and is the presence of such pseudo philosophical, fake, inauthentic, pretentious, highfalutin writing - is that offensive to you? If it really was such junk below everyone, I don't know why people don't just move on over the top of it.

                    I would argue that fashion is not a serious enough subject- and it is the reverse attitude that is in part responsible for more than half the things complained about in the NEXT thread. Yes, I would argue, but it seems that would be an unpopular thing to do.
                    Offensive? Everyone? Do you actually read my posts or do you tailor them to your knee-jerk reactions?
                    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                    StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                    Comment

                    • Faust
                      kitsch killer
                      • Sep 2006
                      • 37852

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Christian View Post
                      Hey, this looks like a great manifesto for the new SZ (where only numbers count ). I love it.
                      Hey, there is always fashionology for the fashion intellectuals
                      Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                      StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                      Comment

                      • laika
                        moderator
                        • Sep 2006
                        • 3787

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Faust View Post
                        Because fashion* is not a serious** subject and the attempts by some academics to make it serious by applying the same highfalutin, dead academic style of writing as in other disciplines makes the whole thing even more fake than it already is. I don't understand why fashion needs to go from intelligent to intellectual.

                        *Fashion as in its aesthetic essence and cultural impact.

                        **Serious, as in important for answering questions about the nature of the individual, society, and nature.
                        this is absurd. I could not disagree more
                        and am genuinely dismayed that this is your point of view.


                        rilu, I have entirely different reasons that I'll reserve for the discussion bsr is suggesting...
                        ...I mean the ephemeral, the fugitive, the contingent, the half of art whose other half is the eternal and the immutable.

                        Comment

                        • BSR
                          Senior Member
                          • Aug 2008
                          • 1562

                          #13
                          Approaches to fashion

                          Ok let's do this.

                          What are in your opinion the valuable approaches to fashion and clothing as objects of discourse? Academical vs journalistic, theoretical vs insider-oriented, analytic vs critic... This is the meta-thread about fashion. We can also repost here the main contributions (there are many) related to this topic.
                          pix

                          Originally posted by Fuuma
                          Fuck you and your viewpoint, I hate this depoliticized environment where every opinion should be respected, no matter how moronic. My avatar was chosen just for you, die in a ditch fucker.

                          Comment

                          • zamb
                            Senior Member
                            • Nov 2006
                            • 5834

                            #14
                            Originally posted by laika View Post
                            this is absurd. I could not disagree more
                            and am genuinely dismayed that this is your point of view..
                            Everything about this tells me he is playing devils advocate.
                            For someone who has invested so much into elevating fashion above its pretentious and often vain trappings, I dont think he really means this at all

                            The very words on the landing page of SZ stands in opposition to this view
                            “You know,” he says, with a resilient smile, “it is a hard world for poets.”
                            .................................................. .......................


                            Zam Barrett Spring 2017 Now in stock

                            Comment

                            • Faust
                              kitsch killer
                              • Sep 2006
                              • 37852

                              #15
                              Originally posted by laika View Post
                              this is absurd. I could not disagree more
                              and am genuinely dismayed that this is your point of view.
                              Why? The critical point was this "I don't understand why fashion needs to go from intelligent to intellectual." I find it analogous to some unexplained need to call fashion art. Why can't it just be design and be great on its terms?

                              But please point out how fashion in a sense I defined it can take place in philosophy, psychology, literature, or another academic discipline except cultural studies. I am happy to hear your views and happy to change mine based on your evidence.
                              Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                              StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                              Comment

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