Op-Ed | Mining the Goth Aesthetic, Fashion Pivots to Darkness

[kunk75]

maybe brands need a better message. i mean, rick partnering with adidas says more about him and his business than the former hype beast/niketalk forumite who buys them.

[kunk75]

i think it's been said but rick owes more to hip hop culture than any other; I never considered rick a goth brand, he borrows many elements from hip hop. a black kid who used to wear oversized nike has more to relate to the brand than some of the dressed by the internet folks who used to wear versace.

[cjbreed]

i have never in my life been in the same room as another human being that has ever even heard of m.a+, luc, bbs, or ccp, let alone own any of it. the handful i have met that know of rick are retail sales associates that i think may be pretending to know who rick owens is as a way of relating to me in order to sell me some alexander wang t shirts. we can thank goth hop and the proliferation of dunks for the cursory intro to RO that these kids get. but thats likely all it will ever be. they rarely move on to get the PhD.

...i am so alone...

[kunk75]

bringing da lolz

the handful i have met that know of rick are retail sales associates that i think may be pretending to know who rick owens is as a way of relating to me in order to sell me some alexander wang t shirts.

[Fuuma]

Wang should leverage his name with a diffusion line of cheeky slogan tee inspired by the subtly erotic world of D2 and D&G. Team jersey with Wang and the number 69 or that sort of thing, dig it?

[kunk75]

wait until my corningware tees replace pyrex and turn goth hop on its head. minds will be blown.

[Faust]

i have never in my life been in the same room as another human being that has ever even heard of m.a+, luc, bbs, or ccp, let alone own any of it. the handful i have met that know of rick are retail sales associates that i think may be pretending to know who rick owens is as a way of relating to me in order to sell me some alexander wang t shirts. we can thank goth hop and the proliferation of dunks for the cursory intro to RO that these kids get. but thats likely all it will ever be. they rarely move on to get the PhD.

...i am so alone...

Time to move

[Faust]

Are you worried that what you see will end up discrediting the genre? How do you see this affecting the genre (and it's adopters) in a broader sense?

Some people find appropriation disrespectful and offensive in any capacity regardless of intent but honestly I don't. Maybe I'm naive, but realistically I think I am just too tired to care.

Not discrediting but rendering it meaningless, decoupling form from substance. Something that Sombre alluded to above.

[malevich]

well, i would rather see hiphopers and mainstreamers shift towards RO style, than seeing baggy jeans all other the place on young (and elder) people, which is so last century.

But jokes aside, my personal problem with dark style that at one point it becomes very demanding, and there are fewer and fewer possibilities to mix and match, maybe this shift to mainstream will push the designers to experiment more with dark style and hopefully goth aesthetic will reinvent itself. even RO is changing, his last womens FW collection is less pointy as the 3 year old ones, his recent adidas mens collection is very sportswear. I think it is a good thing. Mainstream luxury brands won't use it for long anyways, but the avantgarde designers will get some healthy motivation to push the boundaries.

[Fuuma]

well, i would rather see hiphopers and mainstreamers shift towards RO style, than seeing baggy jeans all other the place on young (and elder) people, which is so last century.

But jokes aside, my personal problem with dark style that at one point it becomes very demanding, and there are fewer and fewer possibilities to mix and match, maybe this shift to mainstream will push the designers to experiment more with dark style and hopefully goth aesthetic will reinvent itself. even RO is changing, his last womens FW collection is less pointy as the 3 year old ones, his recent adidas mens collection is very sportswear. I think it is a good thing. Mainstream luxury brands won't use it for long anyways, but the avantgarde designers will get some healthy motivation to push the boundaries.

Movements usually don't drive too many major paradigmatic shifts in the creative sphere, it is more likely a crop of designers will find their voice in opposition to the established ones.

The way I see "goth" designers:

First wave (80s) Yohji, Rei: androgyny, draping, monochrome, hiding instead of ostensibly showing. They were the antidote to the 80s hyper segregated men and women's looks and in your face, body-conscious femininity almost reaching drag queen level. Black is modesty.

Second wave (90s) Helmut, Ann: stronger hint of subcultural elements (punk, goth, rock) and alternative sexuality (very important S&M references). Minimalism or romanticism. Basically a rawer and more emotional take than the 80s houses that had different outputs but seemed more like traditional fashion houses. Black is rebellion.

Third wave (00s) Carpe etc: Arte povera, artisanship, process as important as product (relationship to fashion system is v. important). Not as much about references than about a relationship w. time. Black is decay.

Fourth wave (10s) Rick is prime example: Streetwear goth, reincorporated into mainstream fashion. Black is menace.

Don't think there will be a dominant fifth wave.

[kunk75]

^wrong. does the name eric glennie ring a bell? lace-only hightop sandals! nipple free shirts! your narrow minded view of fashion is clouding your judgement.

[cjbreed]

Time to move

i'd settle for a trip to paris with the SZ mag crew. give me some sort of puff piece assignment i'll make it worth your while

[Faust]

Send me a writing sample ;-)

[OliverG]

I wish this was true. But if I saw this as a mere trend I would probably wouldn't bother writing the article. What I (think I) see is not merely a trend but a thorough permeation of goth aesthetic, akin to that of punk.
Rick Owens is easily the most knocked off designer of the past five years. He's only now entering the pop culture mainstream. Like I said, goth is easy to appropriate because of its very distinct visual cues.

Totally agree with this. Goth is far from new, and just like punk has become mainstream for 8 year old girls, goth isn't far behind. Its a natural evolution as those who were pioneers of the trend are reaching retirement age today, and those who made it popular are middle-aged pillars of society...anything shocking about goth has become decidedly unthreatening (this happened with heavy metal too?)...maybe it started with pop music (MM?)... It certainly won't remain trendy, but it will become overdone and passé...only then will it be able to reclaim any authenticity it has left.

[Faust]

So, is Bella Lugosi dead or undead?