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  • Shogun8
    Member
    • Sep 2013
    • 39

    The Art of Collecting

    Hello All,

    I'm very new to SZ in terms of my posts, but I've been lurking for a few months now. Given the seeming demographic and sartorial sophistication of the members here and a general predilection for collecting, I was wondering about the various non-fashion collections that members may have.

    I believe that one is born a collector and as an inveterate collector myself who is always interested in learning about other collections, I thought it would be interesting to see and share with other collectors.

    My own collecting is quite eclectic: contemporary art, Japanese antiques, Vitra miniatures, artist's books and limited editions and urban vinyl amongst others.

    I guess because I have yet to earn the privilege, I don't think I can post attachments or pics.
  • BSR
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2008
    • 1562

    #2
    Originally posted by Shogun8 View Post
    Hello All,


    I believe that one is born a collector
    one may be born with the means to collect pricey stuff (that is called heritage), but i tend to understand your words as meaning that the habit of collecting is based on a sort of innate psychological feature, which is extremely dubious...
    pix

    Originally posted by Fuuma
    Fuck you and your viewpoint, I hate this depoliticized environment where every opinion should be respected, no matter how moronic. My avatar was chosen just for you, die in a ditch fucker.

    Comment

    • Shogun8
      Member
      • Sep 2013
      • 39

      #3
      Originally posted by BSR View Post
      one may be born with the means to collect pricey stuff (that is called heritage), but i tend to understand your words as meaning that the habit of collecting is based on a sort of innate psychological feature, which is extremely dubious...
      I actually don't think it's related at all to economics. The urge to collect is to an extent innate, whether you start collecting stones, marbles, matchbooks, comics, pez dispensers or Ferraris. It just so happens that since we're on SZ, naturally there is a certain financial ability one must have to be wearing the type of clothing as discussed on the forum. I think that's fairly obvious. But don't construe my words to mean that collecting is a function of money - although as with all things it sure helps.

      Comment

      • Faust
        kitsch killer
        • Sep 2006
        • 37852

        #4
        I, for one, have a middle class income (lower middle class if we are talking NYC), so I wouldn't go assuming that SZ is a bunch of ballers. But perhaps I should post my collection of clothing tags.

        Perhaps you mean that SZers share a certain appreciation of quality, aesthetics and value of material things that go beyond the superficial and somehow this can transcend to appreciation of other things?

        Also, anyone can post pictures - take a look at the tips and tricks thread in announcements and feedback.
        Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

        StyleZeitgeist Magazine

        Comment

        • BSR
          Senior Member
          • Aug 2008
          • 1562

          #5
          quickly put, collecting may bear several meanings:

          ***gathering objects in the purpose of building a museum (even a private one). there is certainly something morbid here, to deprive the objects from the effective value they have in daily life, in order to save them from time. It has to do with the very ancient practice of furnishing your own grave.
          ***relates also to the fear of making choices. you can't decide between black or brown rick jackets, you buy both. logically you can't wear them as much as you would have if you had made your mind for one only, so this is the beginning of collecting vs using.
          ***more generally, collecting is a way to protect oneself from the external world: instead of dealing with the uncertainties of life and living creatures, you spend time editing your stamp collection, stamps can't harm you and you can live more peacefully.

          it is 'fairly obvious', as you say shogun8, that people who collect are people who experiment or have experimented a kind of loss. Then, the reason for collecting must belong to one's personal experience, and it seems very unlikely that it is part of an individual's innate cognitive architecture. Unless you consider most psychological features as innate properties, of course.
          pix

          Originally posted by Fuuma
          Fuck you and your viewpoint, I hate this depoliticized environment where every opinion should be respected, no matter how moronic. My avatar was chosen just for you, die in a ditch fucker.

          Comment

          • Shogun8
            Member
            • Sep 2013
            • 39

            #6
            Wow. Didn't realize that what I thought was a fairly innocuous yet potentially interesting post would elicit such resistance.

            Firstly, my comment about SZ members was not meant to suggest that everyone is a "baller" and I'm quite sure that my own income would be dwarfed by many here. Collecting - much like sartorial pursuits - requires a curiosity, an interest and a commitment to the activity, regardless of income status.

            Although I'm sure much has been written about nature vs. nurture when it comes to the urge and practice of collecting, I don't profess to know more than anyone else here about the topic. Psychology? Don't know too much about it. I do know that one of the things that separates us from some of the other species on this planet is the urge to organize and sometimes amass objects of similar disposition. I collect certain things and if there are other collectors out there, then I'd be very interested to see and hear about their interest. If not, then this thread will die a quick death.

            With reference to my comment about posting pictures, there's a box at the bottom of this page entitled "Posting Rules" in which there is one rule stating "You may not post attachments." I thought this was just another one of the many rules here (such as not being able to list anything for sale unless one has 100 posts).

            Comment

            • Faust
              kitsch killer
              • Sep 2006
              • 37852

              #7
              You can post using image hosting services.
              Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

              StyleZeitgeist Magazine

              Comment

              • Shogun8
                Member
                • Sep 2013
                • 39

                #8
                Originally posted by Faust View Post
                You can post using image hosting services.
                Ah ok, got it.

                Comment

                • kamsky
                  Senior Member
                  • Jan 2007
                  • 120

                  #9
                  I collect poetry books published by Faber. But only the ones with the cover design pictured below. The reasons I can think of for collecting them: They publish talented poets. The first one I bought (pictured) while on a trip to Cambridge without the intention of amassing any more (Auden's "baroque eclogue" The Age of Anxiety has long been a personal favorite). These are not widely available Stateside. In fact they're fairly rare. So upon returning, I found I enjoyed finding one at a bookstore (oftentimes used copies), so I'd buy it.



                  Sidenote: I don't necessarily think that I was "born a collector" (as you put it, Shogun). Nor is my penchant for collecting these books the consequence of or informed by an experience of loss (which BSR suggests as roots of tendencies to collect). I frankly think you're both painting with pretty broad brushes, but to each their own.

                  Comment

                  • malaesthetique
                    Member
                    • Mar 2009
                    • 88

                    #10
                    I see the impulse to collect as largely innate—not as a psychological complex but as an aesthetic instinct to cope with the meaninglessness of bare biological existence. Humans crafted aesthetic objects at the same time that language and tools first emerged. Regardless of income people adorn themselves universally. As a poor college student I cobbled together a style almost entirely comprised of special vintage finds.

                    Relevant to the discussion of loss, my house burnt to the ground on NYE and I lost everything: Years of clothes I collected while working as a buyer between 2008 and 2010, records and cassettes from over 10 years of collecting, DJ and photography equipment, computer, back up drives and various vintage synthesizers, books from grad studies—all rare “grails” I will never obtain again. Entirely dispossessed of the material foundations of identity I prioritized a new wardrobe over more prudent purchases. Had to confront the ways in which my collecting habits were somewhat pathological (keeping 5 winter coats despite living in Honolulu, buying musical instruments I had no time to put to serious use, etc), but could not deny myself the self indulgent pleasure of experiencing these material things. I’ve decided to keep my wardrobe a bit more streamlined, but I can’t bring myself to acquiesce in the infinitely more manageable, flexible, portable, and disposable digital fashion culture.

                    I like Faust’s idea of an affective or transcendental dimension to SZ collecting habits that elevates it above other consumer subcultures, such as the hypothetical collectors of Pez dispensers and their trivial equivalents. Conceptually it might be helpful to differentiate between pathological forms of clothes collecting which we might prefer to call ideological, such as archiving (the ultimate morbid abstraction, as explained by BSR) or the seemingly innocent vibram-treating of soles to preserve the resell value of RO dunks or artisanal leather soled shoes. There is something I find deeply troubling with both...

                    Though what we may collect is likely very interesting, the why and how seems much more important. Perhaps we collect these clunky, heavy, vibrant material objects as a revolt against the values (or valuelessness) of late techno-capitalism? Thats at least part of my reason, even if it a precondition of its existence.

                    Comment

                    • SuE
                      Senior Member
                      • Jan 2013
                      • 173

                      #11
                      Originally posted by kamsky View Post
                      I collect poetry books published by Faber. But only the ones with the cover design pictured below...
                      Do you have a library of books separate from this poetry collection? I have a large collection of books/comics myself, some quite rare, but I'm ambivalent about the act of collecting. I'd rather rare works be made available via a library or museum.
                      One should either be a work of art, or wear a work of art ― Oscar Wilde

                      Comment

                      • kamsky
                        Senior Member
                        • Jan 2007
                        • 120

                        #12
                        Originally posted by SuE View Post
                        Do you have a library of books separate from this poetry collection? I have a large collection of books/comics myself, some quite rare, but I'm ambivalent about the act of collecting. I'd rather rare works be made available via a library or museum.
                        I don't think of these Faber books as separate from my book collection ("collection" used here in the loosest sense of the word, as in, all the books I own; "library," to my mind, suggests a breadth, scope and level of organization that my apartment's bookshelves do not attain).

                        They're separate in the sense that they're on their own shelf which does not include non-poetry, but they're not precious to me; there are marginalia on the borders, stains and creases on the covers, breaks in the spines, same as would be found in all the books I own (and have read).

                        I only have one book that can be considered rare or vaguely collectible. It's a 1956 copy of Joyce's Portrait of the Artist... illustrated by Robin Jacques. I am uninterested in acquiring others; rather buy books at bookstores, not objects at antiquarians. (Though I don't object to the latter.)

                        I agree with you: incunabula, author's manuscripts and libraries -- books made rare by way of their historical valence, are of greater use and value in a library or museum than in the hands of private collectors.

                        Comment

                        • Faust
                          kitsch killer
                          • Sep 2006
                          • 37852

                          #13
                          Originally posted by malaesthetique View Post
                          I see the impulse to collect as largely innate—not as a psychological complex but as an aesthetic instinct to cope with the meaninglessness of bare biological existence. Humans crafted aesthetic objects at the same time that language and tools first emerged. Regardless of income people adorn themselves universally. As a poor college student I cobbled together a style almost entirely comprised of special vintage finds.

                          Relevant to the discussion of loss, my house burnt to the ground on NYE and I lost everything: Years of clothes I collected while working as a buyer between 2008 and 2010, records and cassettes from over 10 years of collecting, DJ and photography equipment, computer, back up drives and various vintage synthesizers, books from grad studies—all rare “grails” I will never obtain again. Entirely dispossessed of the material foundations of identity I prioritized a new wardrobe over more prudent purchases. Had to confront the ways in which my collecting habits were somewhat pathological (keeping 5 winter coats despite living in Honolulu, buying musical instruments I had no time to put to serious use, etc), but could not deny myself the self indulgent pleasure of experiencing these material things. I’ve decided to keep my wardrobe a bit more streamlined, but I can’t bring myself to acquiesce in the infinitely more manageable, flexible, portable, and disposable digital fashion culture.

                          I like Faust’s idea of an affective or transcendental dimension to SZ collecting habits that elevates it above other consumer subcultures, such as the hypothetical collectors of Pez dispensers and their trivial equivalents. Conceptually it might be helpful to differentiate between pathological forms of clothes collecting which we might prefer to call ideological, such as archiving (the ultimate morbid abstraction, as explained by BSR) or the seemingly innocent vibram-treating of soles to preserve the resell value of RO dunks or artisanal leather soled shoes. There is something I find deeply troubling with both...

                          Though what we may collect is likely very interesting, the why and how seems much more important. Perhaps we collect these clunky, heavy, vibrant material objects as a revolt against the values (or valuelessness) of late techno-capitalism? Thats at least part of my reason, even if it a precondition of its existence.
                          That's quite a story! Wow, I am sorry to hear that you lost your possessions through a house fire.

                          To elaborate on what I have said above - the reason I buy quality things, and especially clothes, is because I feel like I want to live in a certain harmony with the objects that surround me. And I would not get this harmony from things are that are either shoddy or vulgar. So, no H&M and no Gucci. I know it probably sounds preposterous reading the following, but it's not unlike a Zen feeling, to simply be in harmony with your surroundings, to have a certain respect for the objects and by extension to other human beings that have created them.

                          With regards to the above, I know some of you are sick of hearing this, but there are plenty of new members, so I'll say it again. When Robert Pirsig talks about his Metaphysics of Quality, he sees quality embedded not in the objects themselves, but really in the relationship between the maker and the object. If the maker was a master of his craft who cared for the object while he was making it, he will imbue it with quality that the consumer of the object will be able to recognize.

                          For example, when it comes to clothes that's why I think no self-respecting designer should use crappy fabric or cut corners in construction. This will be evident to the consumer who is attuned to these things. Then you don't just hate the object, but the creator too.

                          Pirsig said something interesting about materials - that there is no such thing as a crappy kind of material, but we see some material as crap because we are used to terrible incarnations of it around us (he gives plastic as an example - people tend to despise plastic because it's the material of choice for all the chip shit that comes from China). I could not grasp this at the time, but now I do when I see polyester from Comme des Garcons or concrete from Michael Verheyden. Hell, Rick Owens can make plywood desirable - 'nuff said.

                          Anyway, sort for going off on a tangent and sounding all New Agey, lol. It makes more sense when I feel it.

                          Back to collecting, especially books, this Walter Benjamin essay is one of the most endearing cases for collecting - Unpacking My Library (.PDF).
                          Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                          StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                          Comment

                          • Scmick Schmowens
                            Junior Member
                            • Jul 2012
                            • 24

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Shogun8 View Post
                            I believe that one is born a collector and as an inveterate collector myself who is always interested in learning about other collections, I thought it would be interesting to see and share with other collectors.
                            Hey Shogun, I for one am inclined to agree with you. I've always been collecting something-- as a kid, comic books, cards, video games, then as I got older, things like fashion, art, art books, etc.

                            Give your interests (Japanese antiques, arts, miniatures), check out The Hare with Amber Eyes if you haven't yet. Really great book that touches on all those things and the nature of collecting, as well.

                            Comment

                            • Shogun8
                              Member
                              • Sep 2013
                              • 39

                              #15
                              Though I'm new here, I am a veteran of various forums focused on my widely varied interests and one of the things that does strike me about SZ is the obvious intelligence of many of the members here.

                              malaesthetique - I too, am sorry to hear about the loss of your household possessions, and I appreciate your lucid observations. However, I do take exception to your assertion that somehow the collection of "Pez dispensers and their trivial equivalents" are somehow less "transcendental" or inferior to other supposedly higher forms of collecting. I am certain that for many of these collectors, their collections are indeed transformative and a source of intellectual, emotional - and perhaps even spiritual inspiration and comfort. Your argument reminds me of the old highbrow vs. lowbrow debate when it comes to art. I've just finished curating an entire exhibition which postulates (amongst other things) that such distinctions are largely a Western construct (and really a European one) because in some countries like Japan which has a very sophisticated visual culture, there really is no distinction made between high and low art and/or art and craft. When it comes to collecting fashion, one might even say that such a pursuit might be on the lower end of the low/high debate being so closely tied to popular culture (though of course, CCP, Aitor Throup, BBS, et. al. would certainly not be considered mainstream).

                              Scmick - my own theory is that there is an innate propensity to collect. I certainly did not grow up in a household of collectors, nor was I exposed to collecting at all. Yet, I've always been a collector, while my sister - to this day - is not. My wife does not feel a burning need to own or collect things, but I do. I'm sure there are reams of academic papers written on this and the psychological, pseudo-psychological, emotional, Oedipal, Freudian, blah, blah, blah, etc. aspects of it all.

                              The Hare with the Amber Eyes is a book that's been on my list for awhile. I really must read it.

                              Comment

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