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  • Faust
    kitsch killer
    • Sep 2006
    • 37852

    #91
    The latter.
    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

    StyleZeitgeist Magazine

    Comment

    • round
      Senior Member
      • Aug 2015
      • 157

      #92
      I am quite curious to see the pieces in person, after better understanding the Z shape of the zipper I don't think I will be a big fan, seems quite bleh, I'm sure things will improve as she refines the collection though.

      Comment

      • Chinorlz
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2006
        • 6422

        #93
        Let us please solve this cordovan issue once and for all.... Shell Cordovan ONLY comes in small plates approximately 12-15" x 20"
        Two plates per horse. It is NOT the skin/surface of the hide, rather a deeper dermal layer that is very dense. ZERO grain, always smooth.
        NEVER made into anything larger than footwear or small leather goods. It just isn't possible from an anatomic perspective.

        Never never never never will there be a jacket made from shell cordovan.

        Cordovan in reference to leathers overall can be damn near whatever the hell the seller/designer wants it to be... almost always from the horse, sometimes from the hindquarters (but NOT the same biological tissue as shell cordovan), and sometimes just loosely used to refer to color of the leather. Pretty much these days, when someone says a jacket is "cordovan leather" I just think "ok, it is horse leather" and that is it.

        That is not to say that non-shell cordovan is bad, it is just a completely different product. Literally 1-3 tanneries in the world (Horween in Chicago) being one of them are the only ones that make true shell cordovan. Everyone else is just using horsehide.

        Horsehide can be produced in many different thicknesses from super supple to belt-thick. Techniques such as skivving can be used to thin the hide as desired as well.
        www.AlbertHuangMD.com - Digital Portfolio Of Projects & Designs

        Merz (5/22/09):"i'm a firm believer that the ultimate prevailing logic in design is 'does shit look sick as fuck' "

        Comment

        • Lohikaarme
          Senior Member
          • Jul 2013
          • 624

          #94
          Originally posted by Chinorlz View Post
          Let us please solve this cordovan issue once and for all.... Shell Cordovan ONLY comes in small plates approximately 12-15" x 20"
          Two plates per horse. It is NOT the skin/surface of the hide, rather a deeper dermal layer that is very dense. ZERO grain, always smooth.
          NEVER made into anything larger than footwear or small leather goods. It just isn't possible from an anatomic perspective.

          Never never never never will there be a jacket made from shell cordovan.

          Cordovan in reference to leathers overall can be damn near whatever the hell the seller/designer wants it to be... almost always from the horse, sometimes from the hindquarters (but NOT the same biological tissue as shell cordovan), and sometimes just loosely used to refer to color of the leather. Pretty much these days, when someone says a jacket is "cordovan leather" I just think "ok, it is horse leather" and that is it.

          That is not to say that non-shell cordovan is bad, it is just a completely different product. Literally 1-3 tanneries in the world (Horween in Chicago) being one of them are the only ones that make true shell cordovan. Everyone else is just using horsehide.

          Horsehide can be produced in many different thicknesses from super supple to belt-thick. Techniques such as skivving can be used to thin the hide as desired as well.
          FWIW I think it's closer to 8 companies doing shell. But yeah, cordovan = horse catch-all sucks.

          Comment

          • Chinorlz
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2006
            • 6422

            #95
            Originally posted by Lohikaarme View Post
            FWIW I think it's closer to 8 companies doing shell. But yeah, cordovan = horse catch-all sucks.
            If so, that would be interesting (and promising... I source all my shell cordovan from Horween but the wait times are tremendous unfortunately because there is a persistent shortage). I was aware of Horween, Shinki-Hikaku, and I had heard of some company in Spain, but never caught a name. Would be surprised if there were more given the complexity/length of the process and the ever-decreasing availability of the raw material to make into shell cordovan.
            www.AlbertHuangMD.com - Digital Portfolio Of Projects & Designs

            Merz (5/22/09):"i'm a firm believer that the ultimate prevailing logic in design is 'does shit look sick as fuck' "

            Comment

            • drizzly
              Banned
              • Apr 2012
              • 665

              #96
              Originally posted by Chinorlz View Post
              Let us please solve this cordovan issue once and for all.... Shell Cordovan ONLY comes in small plates approximately 12-15" x 20"
              Two plates per horse. It is NOT the skin/surface of the hide, rather a deeper dermal layer that is very dense. ZERO grain, always smooth.
              NEVER made into anything larger than footwear or small leather goods. It just isn't possible from an anatomic perspective.

              Never never never never will there be a jacket made from shell cordovan.

              Cordovan in reference to leathers overall can be damn near whatever the hell the seller/designer wants it to be... almost always from the horse, sometimes from the hindquarters (but NOT the same biological tissue as shell cordovan), and sometimes just loosely used to refer to color of the leather. Pretty much these days, when someone says a jacket is "cordovan leather" I just think "ok, it is horse leather" and that is it.

              That is not to say that non-shell cordovan is bad, it is just a completely different product. Literally 1-3 tanneries in the world (Horween in Chicago) being one of them are the only ones that make true shell cordovan. Everyone else is just using horsehide.

              Horsehide can be produced in many different thicknesses from super supple to belt-thick. Techniques such as skivving can be used to thin the hide as desired as well.
              this is a great explanation for everyone! appreciate that you wrote this.

              Comment

              • Chinorlz
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2006
                • 6422

                #97
                Originally posted by drizzly View Post
                this is a great explanation for everyone! appreciate that you wrote this.
                Anytime!

                Lohikaarme also dropped some knowledge of at least 3-5 other shell cordovan producers so many thanks to him for that additional information. Love learning more each day!
                www.AlbertHuangMD.com - Digital Portfolio Of Projects & Designs

                Merz (5/22/09):"i'm a firm believer that the ultimate prevailing logic in design is 'does shit look sick as fuck' "

                Comment

                • ronin
                  Banned
                  • Dec 2009
                  • 200

                  #98
                  I'm pretty excited about this collection, the safety glass garnments and "crashed" yarn fabric especially spark my interest and I'm curious about the tailoring experimentations BSR wrote about.

                  (Regarding shell cordovan, there's also a tannery in Argentina (Rocinante) and one in Italy that works with imported Japanese shells I think (Comipel). I've heard from a cordovan-enthusiast bootmaker that the quality wasn't exactly on par with Horween but I can't vouch for that.)

                  Comment

                  • t3hg0suazn
                    Senior Member
                    • Jan 2013
                    • 199

                    #99
                    Sorry if this is inane, but to anyone who's seen the collection, are the long jackets offered in the same cut as the previous season? I.e., really an elongated form of a suit jacket, vs. the slightly off-center hidden button closure long jacket that CCP does? Thanks -- it's hard to wait for next season clothing that you can't even see a preview of

                    Comment

                    • naturalalmonds
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2013
                      • 191



                      CRASH GLASS ROUND NECK TOP
                      Carol Christian Poell FE-MALE f/w 2000/2001
                      I want to do product, I am a product person, not just clothing but water bottle design - Kanye West

                      Comment

                      • Bernd Lauert
                        Junior Member
                        • Mar 2016
                        • 6

                        Maybe the glass was her idea back in the days already.....

                        Comment

                        • Faust
                          kitsch killer
                          • Sep 2006
                          • 37852

                          She didn't join CCP until 2005 or so though. Anyway, that doesn't really matter - who cares if CCP did a glass top. Jesus.
                          Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                          StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                          Comment

                          • wgropius@aol.com
                            Junior Member
                            • Jan 2016
                            • 1

                            i care. i have never seen this item. i wish people like you would move to another forum.

                            your angry that you don't own any carol christian poell items and don't want anyone else to enjoy them.

                            Comment

                            • Marko
                              Senior Member
                              • Jul 2009
                              • 147

                              Hahahahahaha.

                              Comment

                              • upsilonkng
                                Senior Member
                                • May 2010
                                • 874

                                Originally posted by wgropius@aol.com View Post
                                i care. i have never seen this item. i wish people like you would move to another forum.

                                your angry that you don't own any carol christian poell items and don't want anyone else to enjoy them.
                                uh.... i think u might live to regret these last words. hahaha

                                Comment

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