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The problem with Tom's Shoes and other "noble" enterprises

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  • byhand
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2011
    • 273

    #31
    Bought a pair of Toms to use as house slippers. They fell apart in a few months. Free shoes to the needy are useless if the shoes fall apart.

    Comment

    • LelandJ
      Banned
      • Apr 2014
      • 201

      #32
      Originally posted by byhand View Post
      Bought a pair of Toms to use as house slippers. They fell apart in a few months. Free shoes to the needy are useless if the shoes fall apart.
      My mother bought me a pair of regular outdoor shoes about five years ago and they developed a huge hole in the toebox within less than a combined 90 days wear. Dunno why the landfill-fashion aspect didn't cross my mind till you mentioned it. Pretty much puts a nail in the faux-charity coffin.

      In my defense they were nondescript and only wore them since I was able to remove the hideous branding on the back ankle and that was before I was into fashion anyways.

      Comment

      • byhand
        Senior Member
        • Dec 2011
        • 273

        #33
        Originally posted by LelandJ View Post
        My mother bought me a pair of regular outdoor shoes about five years ago and they developed a huge hole in the toebox within less than a combined 90 days wear. Dunno why the landfill-fashion aspect didn't cross my mind till you mentioned it. Pretty much puts a nail in the faux-charity coffin.

        In my defense they were nondescript and only wore them since I was able to remove the hideous branding on the back ankle and that was before I was into fashion anyways.

        Right, the thing to do is cut off the brand tag and color in that bit in the back of the heel that reads "toms" with a black sharpie and you are good to go. I had the black burlap slipper-looking shoes, which are actually cool looking but essentially useless...and not cheap for what they are at $50. Someone somewhere is making a pile of money even with the freebies flying out of the factory. They do have a comfy insole, so I will give them that.

        Bought a pair of sandals in Tanzania made from recycled car tires. Cool looking and indestructible. Plus, local craftspeople are supported with each purchase. That's the way to do it.

        Comment

        • Dorje
          Senior Member
          • Oct 2013
          • 284

          #34
          I just saw a Tom's coffee display at Whole Foods.

          They use proceeds of coffee sales to fund supplying fresh water.

          Comment

          • mortalveneer
            Senior Member
            • Jan 2008
            • 993

            #35
            Originally posted by byhand View Post

            Bought a pair of sandals in Tanzania made from recycled car tires. Cool looking and indestructible. Plus, local craftspeople are supported with each purchase. That's the way to do it.
            One might wonder what percentage of Tom's purchasers can afford a plane ticket to Tanzania.

            The alternative rationale underlying your comment is that tourism is the best way to support countries in need.
            I am not who you think I am

            Comment

            • byhand
              Senior Member
              • Dec 2011
              • 273

              #36
              Originally posted by mortalveneer View Post
              One might wonder what percentage of Tom's purchasers can afford a plane ticket to Tanzania.

              The alternative rationale underlying your comment is that tourism is the best way to support countries in need.

              The sandals can now be found online, so no plane ticket required. The locals don't only make the sandals for tourists. They make shoes for themselves, which is how the enterprise started. Used tires are everywhere, so I guess my real and possibly more problematic point is that instead of accepting shoddy shoes from a first world business, a more sustainable and self-empowering enterprise would be teaching those in need how to make whatever is needed from local resources if such resources exist.

              Comment

              • Faust
                kitsch killer
                • Sep 2006
                • 37852

                #37
                From the recent New York Times article about the shopping habits of the millenials, whom companies like Tom's target.

                "The do-goodish pitch is aimed squarely at millennials, who collectively favor companies that embrace the values of good citizenship. The Brookings report says millennials overwhelmingly “responded with increased trust (91 percent) and loyalty (89 percent), as well as a stronger likelihood to buy from those companies that supported solutions to specific social issues (89 percent).”"
                Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                Comment

                • TheThief
                  Senior Member
                  • Mar 2011
                  • 435

                  #38
                  Bad-Aid is pretty well covered and I'm not sure there is any argument for the positives of Toms Shoes. Any aid that creates an artificial dependency is classified as 'bad-aid'. There is an entire poverty industrial complex, that includes people who sells shoes in the name of aid, people who write books in the name of aid, people who give lectures in the name of aid and consult in the name of aid.

                  A pretty thorough study of one aspect of 'bad-aid', and the one most pertinent to this discussion, was done in 2008. Where they examine the effect of used clothing donations to Africa.

                  For those of you who dont feel like wading through 35 pages of an economic study, the long and the short of it is that used clothing donations between 1981 and 2000 account for a 50% reduction in the corresponding economic sector.





                  There is also a good article written by an aid worker many years ago that pretty well sums up the problems of Toms Shoes on the health end of the spectrum. Also long, but a decent read for those who are interested in this.

                  After returning from a two-year tour with the Peace Corps I have only been home in New York for three weeks, and over the course of these th...


                  Lastly for those of you who feel like they know something about minimum wages in developing countries and feel compelled to get on their soap-boxes, I ask you to better inform yourselfs and do some research on things like 't-shirt economies'.
                  Last edited by TheThief; 08-20-2014, 10:35 AM.

                  Comment

                  • DudleyGray
                    Senior Member
                    • Jul 2013
                    • 1143

                    #39
                    Hypothetically speaking, if Tom's paid fair wages/working conditions, were of 'acceptable' design and quality, and had the shoes manufactured in the communities that they were trying to help, would there be anything to complain about?
                    bandcamp | facebook | youtube

                    Comment

                    • Faust
                      kitsch killer
                      • Sep 2006
                      • 37852

                      #40
                      Hypothetically speaking there would be world peace and no poverty. Also pigs would fly and Monocle's city rankings would bear any relation to reality.
                      Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                      StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                      Comment

                      • DudleyGray
                        Senior Member
                        • Jul 2013
                        • 1143

                        #41
                        Come on now, the thought of a company doing what I proposed isn't really that unthinkable now, is it? I mean yeah, Tom's is doing a shitty job at being 'good' but then that's better than par for the course with corporate responsibility as a whole. That they even have a 'do-goodish' audience whom they can target gives me some hope. The audience just needs to be a touch more educated and less easily hoodwinked is all.

                        The other day I was in Target trying to buy some socks. But I can't bring myself to buy socks anymore that aren't at least Made in USA. I found some with Made in USA stickers, but when I peeled back the stickers, I saw Made in El Salvador. I don't know where I'm going with this, I'm just rambling at this point. I didn't buy the socks.
                        bandcamp | facebook | youtube

                        Comment

                        • TheThief
                          Senior Member
                          • Mar 2011
                          • 435

                          #42
                          Originally posted by DudleyGray View Post
                          Hypothetically speaking, if Tom's paid fair wages/working conditions, were of 'acceptable' design and quality, and had the shoes manufactured in the communities that they were trying to help, would there be anything to complain about?
                          I was just thinking how your contributions to this discussion thus far have been pretty lackluster, and then I went back and realized your contributions in general are pretty lackluster, so at least youre consistent

                          There are plenty of companies who pay 'fair' wages, have good working conditions, produce products of 'acceptable' design and quality have their shoes manufactured in the communities that they are trying to help, AND dont bother beating you over the head about how much good they are doing. Because of this, we're not talking about them.

                          Here's one: http://nisolo.com/

                          Originally posted by DudleyGray View Post
                          Come on now, the thought of a company doing what I proposed isn't really that unthinkable now, is it? I mean yeah, Tom's is doing a shitty job at being 'good' but then that's better than par for the course with corporate responsibility as a whole.
                          In response to this, the point people are discussing here is not that Toms is doing a 'shitty job at being good' but that Tom's is actually doing a great job creating a profitable business convincing people they are doing good, when in actuality they are doing legitimate harm.

                          Comment

                          • DudleyGray
                            Senior Member
                            • Jul 2013
                            • 1143

                            #43
                            Originally posted by TheThief View Post
                            I was just thinking how your contributions to this discussion thus far have been pretty lackluster, and then I went back and realized your contributions in general are pretty lackluster, so at least youre consistent

                            There are plenty of companies who pay 'fair' wages, have good working conditions, produce products of 'acceptable' design and quality have their shoes manufactured in the communities that they are trying to help, AND dont bother beating you over the head about how much good they are doing. Because of this, we're not talking about them.

                            Here's one: http://nisolo.com/



                            In response to this, the point people are discussing here is not that Toms is doing a 'shitty job at being good' but that Tom's is actually doing a great job creating a profitable business convincing people they are doing good, when in actuality they are doing legitimate harm.
                            RE: my post history, how about I don't give a shit and maybe you can try not to be a dick. But everything else, fair enough.
                            bandcamp | facebook | youtube

                            Comment

                            • Faust
                              kitsch killer
                              • Sep 2006
                              • 37852

                              #44
                              Originally posted by DudleyGray View Post
                              Come on now, the thought of a company doing what I proposed isn't really that unthinkable now, is it? I mean yeah, Tom's is doing a shitty job at being 'good' but then that's better than par for the course with corporate responsibility as a whole. That they even have a 'do-goodish' audience whom they can target gives me some hope. The audience just needs to be a touch more educated and less easily hoodwinked is all.

                              The other day I was in Target trying to buy some socks. But I can't bring myself to buy socks anymore that aren't at least Made in USA. I found some with Made in USA stickers, but when I peeled back the stickers, I saw Made in El Salvador. I don't know where I'm going with this, I'm just rambling at this point. I didn't buy the socks.
                              My quip about Monocle's city rankings is worth more than all your "thoughts" put together. It's too bad your quick reply began a new page and deprived the good folks of SZ of a chuckle.
                              Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                              StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                              Comment

                              • Faust
                                kitsch killer
                                • Sep 2006
                                • 37852

                                #45
                                Originally posted by TheThief View Post

                                In response to this, the point people are discussing here is not that Toms is doing a 'shitty job at being good' but that Tom's is actually doing a great job creating a profitable business convincing people they are doing good, when in actuality they are doing legitimate harm...
                                ...while alleviating their liberal guilt by engaging in consumerism. It's a win-win for the first world.
                                Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                                StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                                Comment

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