How Hip-Hop Stole Rock's Thunder

[wildinthewoods]

I think that for a lot of modern underground 'rock' musicians, often times 'fashion' is a bit of a dirty word. Obviously rock subcultures have their own idiosyncratic styles, but if you are thought of as being too preoccupied with your looks you're considered a poser. I think we have glam metal to blame a bit for that. For example Stephen O'malley, well known amongst rock/doom/drone scenes, is a bit of a snazzy dresser and he catches a lot of flack for that.

Significantly since the 90s pop culture has had an entire shift towards hip hop. In fact I think it could be argued that hip hop IS pop nowadays, and seeing as most hip hop (or at least top 40 hip hop) is very tied into looks, luxury brands and constantly evolving styles, it makes perfect sense that hip hop would have stumbled upon sz type designers at some point, and that moment just happens to be now. I think it will pass, and soon. Mass marketed fashion is getting faster every day and I think soon there will be a backlash towards darker styles in pop culture, and the 'all black everything' mindset will be replaced by whatever the next wave in pop will be.

Anyway, I really enjoyed the article.

[Lois Grüveltner]

BlacknWhite: Yes, the WAYWT thread on sz certainly has something to do with showing off but in a much more sophisticated and inspiring way. - People on here has a common interest/lifestyle they share with each other to get inspired while expanding their own insight.
Showing off is not necessarily a bad thing, it's just another way of expressing yourself in our modern time. And it has always been in humans nature to show them self off.. It's how we communicate and separate us in groups. - And I like expressions, in music, art, fashion etc.. - As long as the expressions not are based on a pretentious and shallow identity..

I truly mean that there won't be anything slightly so significant ever again. - And it has nothing to do with me being furious about Hip Hop has taking the role of Rock 'n' Roll cause rock in its truly nectar wouldn't survive today!.. - Not without a movement of confused and fucked up kids fighting for something painful in a world that don't understand them. - The worlds global exposure of itself appreciative all the different subcultures that used to be excluded; and if you don't feel you belong in your nearest surroundings you have the whole world to hold hands with..

I have a beating heart for the dance of rock, but I like a range of different genres - also hip hop like, early Dr. Dre, Snoop, Wu Tang Sugarhill Gang and Tupac.. - I'm very opened to music also newer kind as long as the expression is real!

wildinthewoods: Hip Hop is exactly in its right element today. Cause we live in a world where respect and identity lay in the things we buy and show to the world.

[i-d-g]

Really well written article with great observations, Faust.

I think that for a lot of modern underground 'rock' musicians, often times 'fashion' is a bit of a dirty word. Obviously rock subcultures have their own idiosyncratic styles, but if you are thought of as being too preoccupied with your looks you're considered a poser.

I agree 100%. I think that rap, especially recently, is very much about vanity, whereas rock is much more about nonchalance. (You never hear a rocker singing about how expensive his outfit is.) A rapper would gladly wear a $2000 leather jacket as a status symbol, where a rocker might prefer a vintage leather jacket from a thrift store.

Also, I think fashion tends to trickle down and inspire rap subcultures, where as trends and styles in rock subcultures are much more likely to trickle up and influence fashion in the reverse way. At least that's how it's been in the past.

[galia]

yeah but now it's just a trickle down - trickle up syndrome between hip hop and fashion, what with all the streetweas influences etc that are then regurgitated at sky-high prices and then sold back down to the people who inspired it in the first place.

Same thing happened when rock started influencing high fashion, and then rock stars would wear YSL or whatever, except in the 60's and 70's the most innovative people in fashion had a mystique about providing styles that were affordable because they were aimed at the youth (mary quant and biba are prime examples, but even Saint Laurent with his ready-to-wear had a similar idea). This is what has changed mainly, but it's the second time that this up-down thing is happening, this time whith the added bonus of raping your wallet. So in that sense the phenomenon has merely adapted to the world we live in now

[Monoral]

Pretty much how i feel these past few years regarding musician and fashion.

[DudleyGray]

Good article. There's just no real rebellion left in rock music. Plenty of passion and fresh sounds, but ultimately it's just not rebellious to do what your parents did.

[Lois Grüveltner]

Good article. There's just no real rebellion left in rock music. Plenty of passion and fresh sounds, but ultimately it's just not rebellious to do what your parents did.

That's the exact reason!

[deltapie]

Good article.

Really makes me wonder who will be the next "rockstars" once hip-hop goes the same route as rock did. EDM producers? lol.

[BlacknWhite]

Well, Blacknwhite, that is simply untrue. I'll start withy the Beatles, and maybe not even need continue.

Did The Beatles, however, manage to strongly reach out to an audience outside of the English speaking world? South America, South and Far East Asia to be exact. Actual question, not being rhetorical, as I'm no music nerd/historian. I brought up MJ, because this was a feat he actually conquered, and the article mentioned about what kids in Beijing wanted, was no different than what kids in NY want.

Good article.

Really makes me wonder who will be the next "rockstars" once hip-hop goes the same route as rock did. EDM producers? lol.

I guess you're joking around about the EDM thing, but this IS in fact happening, and it's been happening for a good minute now. Daft Punk, and Skrillex, are, "rock stars" in their own right. These guys have won Grammys, through internet fame, and when they first won, the reactions from traditional media were all "who?" "what?"
The market for EDM producers aren't as big, and established as hip hop, and rap, but these guys are just as relevant.

[DudleyGray]

I think that even though hip hop artists might currently pull more weight in fashion, the role for musicians just isn't what it used to be, regardless of genre. They used to be like subcultural shaman, and now they are just commodities to compliment lifestyles. I don't forsee any musician of any genre breaking that mould, but I could be wrong.

[BrokenBoards]

I hardly think Franz Ferdinand signaled the death of rock star style. The time surrounding the MySpace bubble, and its subsequent burst, had a lot more to do with it than anything else. Besides, the U.K. music scene has always turned out some of the most effortlessly style savvy bands, so it's unfair to use one of its largest "rock" exports in the past decade in the context of this article.

Once the internet opened up the floodgates for every band from Anytown U.S.A. to get their music out there, the industry become focused almost entirely on plays, fan engagement, likes, etc. as their primary metrics for analyzing the success and viability of an artist. As a result, a rock musician's image fell to the back burner and we still have some time before the cycle comes back around again. I spent the better part of the 2000s lodged in a cargo van and unsuccessfully fighting for a record deal and was told, "Your image is fine, as long as you look young nowadays, nobody cares. But you have to get your social media stats up," more times than I can remember. Not to mention, the whole blog explosion suddenly made musicians want coverage on Brooklyn Vegan over Rolling Stone.

The backstage antics and rock star mysticism of yore has been replaced by very carefully calculated PR campaigns and a good booking agent can do more for you than most labels. Most "buzz" bands don't get their break overnight like you're lead to believe. Image was once a key component and suddenly rock music's dying breaths are being absorbed by the rapidly expanding indie rock scene that has since come to adopt thrift store t-shirts (or the Urban Outfitters knock off), plaid/flannel button down shirts, and faded blue jeans as the uniform of choice. Just peruse any major media outlet's festival coverage.

When an rock artist breaks through the glass ceiling nowadays, their likely going to make a modest lower middle-class living if they're lucky. Things are very stale right now in lieu of some bands sonically pushing boundaries and staying afloat financially is more important than looking cool. Rock stars can't afford to be rock stars, plain and simple. And not just in the monetary sense either. One slip up (member drama, a bad write up, etc.) can level a band's career and there's too much at stake for someone to really rise up and want to be the next Iggy Pop.

There are dozens of great Trent Reznor interviews from the past 5-7 years out there. He can explain all of this far better than I can...

[Picasso]

To be fair, black culture is just taking back what was once it's own. There i said it.

[Lois Grüveltner]

To be fair, black culture is just taking back what was once it's own. There i said it.

This is also the truth. The white culture stole both blues and jazz from the black culture but I don't think a certain music genre should be for just one race. - Music is about talent and creativity and that has nothing to do with skin color!

[apathy!]

A$AP ROCKY etc wearing rick owens and making it cool, who's stealing who again?

[Lois Grüveltner]

I wouldn't say cool but mainstream!