Parsons goes goth (and other tragedies)

[Faust]

http://nymag.com/thecut/2014/10/my-grueling-life-as-a-parsons-fashion-student.html?utm_source=Subscribers&utm_campaign=cb83796d91-&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_d2191372b3-c

[Ahimsa]

I had a very similar experience at FIT. Although there were two camps of professors. Those who wanted us to create amazingly creative things, and those who wanted us to ignore that and focus on making sellable goods.
These sleep hours are very accurate though.

I will note that FIT also destroyed Parsons at the last Fusion Show, so I'm not so sure the Parsons teaching method is working so well...

My main complaint is that it's very hard to intern on a fashion design student's schedule at FIT or Parsons. And the job I currently hold is almost entirely because of the work I did outside school (thank you Faust), which is why I think interning should be a required part of the curriculum, regardless of the degree. (I think it might be required for BA students?)

So I currently believe much of the way fashion design is currently taught in NYC is more of a hindrance than actually preparing you for the job market.

[zamb]

I think that the whole system is Bull sh*t and a complete waste of time for many.
to me there are some advantages of going to fashion school but generally speaking fashions schools today are a complete waste of time.
That being said I would never tell anyone who wants to be a part of mainstream fashion to not attend school.

I would never recommend a school like Parson's though. I think that the price is way too high (like 40K/ yr?). So if you go on a loan you end up owing almost 200K before you even land a low paying job. Not the kind of debt I want to have as a 21-22 yr old starting life............

I remember an interview Richard Tyler Did in Vogue I think in 1997, at the end of it he was doing a trunk show and met a young girl who aspired to be a designer.............she said she was taking summer classes learning how to draw.............his advice to her........


"Forget that, go home and learn how to sew"

I agree, internships are extremely important and should be a significant part of the curriculum. I even think interning at a reputable company is more important than many of the classes they give you at School

[550BC]

I think that the whole system is Bull sh*t and a complete waste of time for many.

same goes for art schools, I did 2.

[BlacknWhite]

Wow, this brought back some memories...I was fortunate enough to not have a tuition fee when I was at Cooper Union, as well as having gone to an arts high school here in nyc. The work load sounds familiar, as well as paying for your own supplies.

For menswear, I always feel like learning from a tailor is a better route than design schools.

[Bson]

I relate a lot to the comment that a lot of classmates have a ton of money to throw around... In music school its very common to have people with instruments that cost over 100k, and it really does work to their advantage in the long-run when it comes to flying overseas, auditions, tapes, lessons, instrument, etc etc. Can't imagine funding a whole graduation collection like that though, with the competition.. Seems so stressful!

[Icarium]

same goes for art schools, I did 2.

Also mostly true for video game industry programs from what I've heard.

Those developer bootcamp things can be pretty good though I've had a few friends do them and then get jobs and transition into the role very successfully.

[550BC]

Also mostly true for video game industry programs from what I've heard.

Those developer bootcamp things can be pretty good though I've had a few friends do them and then get jobs and transition into the role very successfully.

I have my degree as a Game Artist actually and yes finding a job in that industry is totally different compared to many in the creative industry. I didnt liked the industry so I put it behind me. With a solid portfolio they used to give you a job. Now they demand a BA or MA which is bs

[zamb]

same goes for art schools, I did 2.

I can understand the parallel but I honestly think that Art is very different.
When I say the whole thing is bullcrap just don’t mean the schools, I mean the whole system and what is expected of you as someone aspiring to become a designer.

First we need to accept the reality that there are more fashion schools and more people studying fashion than there are legitimate positions to fill in the profession. What this results in is a glut of people who pay thousands of dollars and acquire fashion degrees but will NEVER be able to find a real Job in the field. This is compounded by the fact that fashion design is one of the few professions where ANYONE without little or no knowledge of what it takes can just get up one morning and simply “decide to be a designer” and be expected to be taken seriously.

To me, most people entering the profession today are not doing so because of love of craft and because they are genuinely talented people wanting to peruse a career in the field. They are the people who watch shows like project runway etc and want their name on a label and the perceived fame and glamour that comes with being a “designer”


Another issue is that a ton of people nowadays graduate and then expect to be in business IMMEDIATELY AFTER THEY GRADUATE. They have no defined aesthetic, no consistent vision they want to express, nor do they even know how clothes are actually made and even the basic knowledge of how a business is operated…..they are the people that stores and corrupt industry professionals take advantage of because their desire to be in a store and to be famous is more important to them than learning solid fundamentals and developing a serious body of knowledge before launching a label

[550BC]

I totally agree with what you said, and this is also how I observe most fashion students in general. I actually showed what you just said to one of my friends gf, who is studying fashion and is already insecure about the future and is feeling studying at a fashion school is only postponing ''execution''

they offer more commercial courses than autonomous/independent courses today. The teachers are 99% subjective instead of objective. For some it works good to develop yourself at an art school for 4 years to find yourself and grow strong together with your work. When you already have your own style, this can turn out in a total nightmare. like my past academy said ''we want to rip you apart and put you back together ourself'' in other words, they rather want to create YOU than you create yourself. They take away the freedom you're getting offered when you sign in immediately after a few weeks. I've noticed many of my classmates making the same or similar work as my teachers and so getting good degrees. when I asked them ''where do you see yourself after this?'' they answered with ''ehh I don't know, maybe getting another degree? or apply at some creative agencies with my diploma''

I finished one 4 year course with 2 internships as a Game Artist/Architect. this course offered more freedom to develop than the other art academy I went after and the second one was a independent course. I dropped out of that one because I felt like I was wasting my money. I wasted my money on both art academies to be honest.

Like mentioned before, the internships are most important element of the entire course

[casem]

I agree with a lot of the sentiments here. As schools become increasingly corporatized for-profit institutions, it no longer seems to matter if the training they are giving is relevant or will lead to careers for their students. All the universites care about is acquiring more paying customers.

I've been disgusted watching my institution change over the years. Students admitted to the program have more than quadrupled, while the amount of professors and opportunities for students haven't changed and no one is getting funding anymore. Meanwhile, we're all being trained for a profession that doesn't exist, and all of us in this increasingly huge program will be fighting for the one or two available full professor position when we graduate.

At least at Parson's their corporatization offers more "real life" training and lots of scholarship opportunities. But, it's terrible for creativity and actual learning.

Academia is so fucked, I've decided I'm just going to be a rock star.

[Faust]

Do it, Casey!

[Aurum]

I read this article last week, and it struck fear into my little heart. I'm in the midst of reworking my portfolio and preparing to relocate in order to finish my degree in design. While it's not as if I am unaware of the potential risk of my accruing six figures of debt prior to graduation, I'm generally capable of putting it out of my mind. After seven years of freelancing (which began with absolutely no concept of finance or business management), I know that being a (self-employed) designer is far from glamorous. The hours can suck. You live off of take out and coffee for periods of time, and have little to no social life when on a deadline. These are things I already cope with balancing on a regular basis. As a non-traditional student (in my late 20's), I feel confident in my vision and in my reasons for returning to school now.

Sure, the article brought many of my own concerns back to the forefront of my mind. However, it failed to mention and/or glosses over issues such as how old this student is, how complete her vision of her own work was, and what the curriculum for her program looks like. What is she actually learning? And did she really know where she wanted to be after she graduated? While school isn't for everyone, I'd be interested in hearing about individuals who became commercially successful without any formal education.

[Faust]

Having taught at parsons for 3.5 years, I can assure you that there is no shortage of talented, hardworking kids there.

While I do not agree with Zam that school does not matter, he is absolutely right that there has been an overproduction of fashion degrees in the last years, as there has been an overproduction of art degrees since the 90s. Creative kids used to want to be artists and rock stars, now they want to be fashion designers. Good luck.

The dirty truth is that many of successful designers today are by and large rich kids who come from serious family money. Alexander Wang, Simone Rocha, Mary Kantrantzu, and so on. It's not the only way to success, but it's an increasingly prevalent one.

[aussy]

Academia is so fucked, I've decided I'm just going to be a rock star.

Also fucked, do not pass go, do not collect $200

My thoughts: higher education in its current state is useful in finding direction and developing skills (whether technical or analytic). I wish I had taken some time on my own to find direction and then approached higher education with that in mind, so that my degree could represent something more than my ability to meet deadlines. Once developing those skills, I could have then learned how to profit off of them.

I think two issues that have lead many younger folk like myself (and the author) frustrated post graduation is the increasing exclusivity of internships and also the education path norm. That is, going straight from highschool to higher ed to a life long career without life experience in between to figure out wtf I'm doing.