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"The True Cost"

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  • justin_bridou
    Member
    • Feb 2015
    • 40

    #16
    Originally posted by DudleyGray View Post
    lifestyle brand
    that simple words association is a non-sense to me, sorry ...

    Comment

    • casem
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2006
      • 2590

      #17
      Ahaha so cynical but on point.

      Originally posted by DudleyGray View Post
      So when Rick became a full-fledged lifestyle brand, did they mean the lifestyle of continually browsing the Internet for archival and new seasonal collections, new arrivals, flash/outlet sales, seasonal sales, used listings, buying/selling/trading, and waiting for packages? If so, that brand resonates with me, because that is my life.



      If you factor in the environmental impact of energy and resources for the sake of "luxury," ethical production sounds like an oxymoron.
      music

      Comment

      • cjbreed
        Senior Member
        • Feb 2009
        • 2712

        #18
        that routine dudley laid out is pretty familiar, but i can say that one cure for it is to become really really really busy.

        another thing i'm experiencing is that i buy way less than i used to now because i never get a chance to wear any of it. i've been wearing the same black raw stretch denim jeans for 3 months straight and a constant rotation of the same 10 or 12 black tee shirts. and some black nike free runners.
        dying and coming back gives you considerable perspective

        Comment

        • Faust
          kitsch killer
          • Sep 2006
          • 37852

          #19
          Originally posted by justin_bridou View Post
          Albert,

          I agree with you, but I'd go one step further, with saying that the mentality which that has to be changed is that desperate need of buying stuff. We can see it here on SZ. The underlying background is that quality artisan's stuff are done with high skills and expected to last more than the "fast fashion" products. Then, people can do conscious buying and buy less.

          but we can see here that there is a will and certainly a need of always buying new stuff. people are always lurking for something and are basically never satisfied with anything. it's like looking for stuff, deciding if it fits your need and wait to get it from the carriers was a true activity by itself.

          It took the example of SZ because it is the more paradoxal to me, but you can of course generalize it to anything. if you were able to take the average guy between 15 and 45 and check the time of his life devoted to the act of buying, i'm pretty sure it would be amazing

          for me, it's that mentality that would need to be changed.

          disclaimer : to my dear friend bukka, no need to call me a troll as you're used to. if you disagree, please, just do nothing, it would be much appreciated ...
          Then allow me to take bukka's place.

          First, I resent that you paint an entire group of people with the same brush. Yes, there are people that you describe and there are people who really buy less and pay more for quality goods that last and really have fewer garments, much fewer, than your average first world consumer.

          Second, style is an organic, continuous development process. Because you buy and sell, it does not necessarily follow that you are engaging in consumerism plain and simple. All of us here were very, very different stuff ten years ago.

          Third, whatever people on here buy, it's not even close to everyday-weekend sugar rush of fast fashion shopping trips that tons of people engage in.

          Fourth, designer clothing has resale value and ends up in a landfill much less often than fast fashion. Actually, one could argue that second hand shopping is the most sustainable practice (you are not buying anything new).

          What was the statistic of how many pounds of clothing Americans throw out every year? 80 pounds? I, for one, did not throw a single item out last year, unless you count underwear and socks.

          I am not saying you are completely wrong. Yes, there is the frill of the hunt, the bargain, etc. But you are being reductive here.
          Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

          StyleZeitgeist Magazine

          Comment

          • stemcell
            Senior Member
            • Jul 2011
            • 261

            #20
            Yeah, just watched it. Was great. Now comes forcing everyone I know to watch it haha.

            Comment

            • justin_bridou
              Member
              • Feb 2015
              • 40

              #21
              Faust, thank you for your reply. I don't pretend my voice is gospel, just deliver my thoughts on the moment.
              Originally posted by Faust View Post
              What was the statistic of how many pounds of clothing Americans throw out every year? 80 pounds? I, for one, did not throw a single item out last year, unless you count underwear and socks.
              .
              haha, I was not expecting something else from the charismatic leader of this school of thought ! More seriously, you obviously know you are not representative at all of the trend here.

              Originally posted by Faust View Post
              I am not saying you are completely wrong. Yes, there is the frill of the hunt, the bargain, etc. But you are being reductive here.
              Obviously reductive. But what I find reductive too, is to artificially separate the "good buying" and the "fast fashion"" which may be the "evil buying". This kind of typical manichaeism may just hide the big picture (il y a "le bon chasseur" et le "mauvais chasseur" tu vois ...)

              i'm not saying it is the same, but there is too much implications that I quite dislike when Albert basically says there is no problem to "buy more" if you can afford and buy "right". I know buying is deeply anchored in american culture, buy (outrageously simplifying) it implies that richer people can waste resources to consume beyond their need, as a hobby, just because they can afford it, and the lower class would be guilty trying to follow the trend because they may buy the fast market production.

              Even buying designer's stuff, ethically produced in western countries) if you buy beyond your need (like buying a leather jacket every season), you're simply wasting resources (grow the cows...) and at the end of the day (let's say sooner or later) some people will suffer from that waste. It's less directly visible, but it is a matter of facts.

              That's why I think we should be a bit finely-shaded and keep in mind that the act of buying is never without any consequences
              Last edited by justin_bridou; 08-01-2015, 05:15 AM.

              Comment

              • TriggerDiscipline
                Senior Member
                • Apr 2013
                • 859

                #22
                I for one am very glad I watched this, what came to my head often was the fact that they spend money on these expensive top of the line manufacturing sewing machines yet they wont provide for the simplest of basic human needs, they are truly just a commodity to these megacorps, and this movie does a really good job at showing this.

                everyone should watch this film on this site.
                Originally posted by unwashed
                Try to use a phone camera in broad daylight or use a proper camera.
                Originally posted by Ahimsa
                I've found it extremely pleasant and enthralling over repeated whiffs so I would highly recommend.

                Comment

                • Faust
                  kitsch killer
                  • Sep 2006
                  • 37852

                  #23
                  Originally posted by justin_bridou View Post
                  Faust, thank you for your reply. I don't pretend my voice is gospel, just deliver my thoughts on the moment.

                  haha, I was not expecting something else from the charismatic leader of this school of thought ! More seriously, you obviously know you are not representative at all of the trend here.



                  Obviously reductive. But what I find reductive too, is to artificially separate the "good buying" and the "fast fashion"" which may be the "evil buying". This kind of typical manichaeism may just hide the big picture (il y a "le bon chasseur" et le "mauvais chasseur" tu vois ...)

                  i'm not saying it is the same, but there is too much implications that I quite dislike when Albert basically says there is no problem to "buy more" if you can afford and buy "right". I know buying is deeply anchored in american culture, buy (outrageously simplifying) it implies that richer people can waste resources to consume beyond their need, as a hobby, just because they can afford it, and the lower class would be guilty trying to follow the trend because they may buy the fast market production.

                  Even buying designer's stuff, ethically produced in western countries) if you buy beyond your need (like buying a leather jacket every season), you're simply wasting resources (grow the cows...) and at the end of the day (let's say sooner or later) some people will suffer from that waste. It's less directly visible, but it is a matter of facts.

                  That's why I think we should be a bit finely-shaded and keep in mind that the act of buying is never without any consequences
                  I know what you mean here. Yes, I am sure there are wealthy people that buy at the same clip the fast-fashion-crazed middle class suburban teens do. Though I would wager they by far have a much, much smaller impact on the planet.

                  All you need to know to get a sense of scale is this - the richest man in Spain is the owner of Zara. The richest man in Sweden is the owner of H&M. The richest (or second richest?) man in Japan is the owner of Uniqlo. Now given the low prices and low margins, extrapolate the amount of garments these companies sell in order to achieve their staggering financial results. H&M is openining stores at a clip of 350 a year. Prada, for example, probably has 350 stores altogether.
                  Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                  StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                  Comment

                  • En.
                    Senior Member
                    • May 2015
                    • 121

                    #24
                    Originally posted by Faust View Post
                    All you need to know to get a sense of scale is this - the richest man in Spain is the owner of Zara. The richest man in Sweden is the owner of H&M. The richest (or second richest?) man in Japan is the owner of Uniqlo. Now given the low prices and low margins, extrapolate the amount of garments these companies sell in order to achieve their staggering financial results. H&M is openining stores at a clip of 350 a year.
                    To expand upon the current scale:
                    Amancio Gaona, the co-founder of Inditex, is the 2nd wealthiest person in the world.
                    Stefan Persson, chairman of H&M and son of its founder, is the 34th wealthiest person.
                    Tadashi Yanai, founder of Fast Retailing, is the 23rd wealthiest person

                    Their entire wealth isn't because of fast-fashion but it does play a huge role. With fashion as a hobby increasing in popularity and more and more consumers becoming entranced by fast-fashion, expect their net worth to increase at a rapid rate in the upcoming years.

                    Comment

                    • SafetyKat
                      Senior Member
                      • Aug 2014
                      • 169

                      #25
                      I watched The True Cost last night. Although the true weight of the movie didn't quite hit me until I re-watched a scene in the Samsara documentary a few hours ago.
                      There is a shot of dozens of incredibly poor people picking through mountains of garbage made up of clothes, computer parts, plastic bags etc. The kicker? A vast majority of the individuals were decked out in Nike, Addidas, Polo and mass produced denim, which I'm guessing were salvaged in the same manner. These people are forced to survive off the waste of our first world consumerism, scrounging through the trimmings of the very system that keeps them impoverished in the first place. For me, this articulates perfectly the blight of hyper-consumerism I see today.

                      P.S.
                      If The True Cost made you lose your faith in humanity, Samsara may put a little hope back in you

                      Comment

                      • bukka
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2011
                        • 821

                        #26
                        Watched this yesterday with my partner. She was utterly shocked by the scale of the fast-fashion industry, so did I. "Most labour dependent industry: about one in six people is working in the fashion industry". I think scale really is the issue now ; sweatshop have existed for a long time, like the ones in the lower east side back in the 1850-1900s, but you can't compare it to the mass producing countries like Bangladesh, nor you can't compare the impact it has on a global scale.
                        For this companies, human is just another ressource to waste, and their gonna squeeze as much as they can.
                        Of course, the only ethical way to consume is to consume less.

                        And if we push this logic to its limit:

                        Originally posted by Fuuma View Post
                        Since the money you do not spend is saved and lent to other people the only way to sustainability is even more radical: it is to earn less.
                        P.S.: Good to see that you stopped your asinine posts JB.
                        Eternity is in love with the productions of time

                        Comment

                        • justin_bridou
                          Member
                          • Feb 2015
                          • 40

                          #27
                          Originally posted by bukka View Post
                          P.S.: Good to see that you stopped your asinine posts JB.
                          haha, no no, Faust is just deleting faster than you may read ...

                          I like the idea of Fuuma ... another idealistic perspective would be to avoid the use of money, and to globally manage resources to fit the need.

                          Comment

                          • porthidium
                            Member
                            • Aug 2013
                            • 48

                            #28
                            There was also a Norwegian TV series that came out a while ago - documenting three teenager's experiences in a sweatshop.



                            People will pay a lot of money for quote/unquote artisanal, local, "handmade" products but the general public forgets that almost everything (clothing, electronics, etc) are all technically "handmade."
                            @porthidium_

                            Comment

                            • acebrotura
                              Junior Member
                              • Jul 2015
                              • 5

                              #29
                              It just feels like examining the issue objectively now with where it's reached makes it feel insurmountable--how do you attempt to change a generation's mindset when if the worst garment manufacturing tragedies of all time (in Bangladesh) have happened within the last several years and people barely bat an eye in response?

                              How do you teach "ethical" consumption in a culture that idolizes feverish consumption for the sake of more, cheaper, and faster? How do you teach a culture the simple value of supply chain management?

                              Comment

                              • gregor
                                Senior Member
                                • Oct 2014
                                • 603

                                #30
                                that's the million, or, rather, i believe almost 4 trillion dollar question, no?

                                ethical consumerism is something that i don't believe is hard to do, and it's impossible to not get behind it. however, you have to pander to the sensibilities of the people who currently contribute to this problem, and to guide them towards better, more ethical choices.

                                it's got to be packaged in the right way, the same way that organic foods are packaged, in a way that appeals to the want to do something good.

                                unlike a lot of organic foods, it has to be truly sustainable, and truly good for the industry and the people who are the cogs of it.

                                i think it needs to be done in a way that appeals to consumers, but not in a way that perpetuates consumerism; the nuances of such a plan, however, are much harder to figure out.

                                Comment

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