Rick Owens Women's S/S 16 - Paris

[Pleue]

Fergus Greer - Leigh Bowery - Session VII, Look 37, June 1994

I liked the collection a lot. Many beautiful fabrics and the jackets were on point.

[casem]

I like it, and think he made a genuine and moving gesture. Watch the man himself speak about it:

http://www.vogue.com/fashion-shows/spring-2016-ready-to-wear/rick-owens#video

I must be the one of the few who is more and more convinced by what Rick is doing with each passing season. I hate to sound like a gushing fanboy, but he just has so much intellect, integrity, and fearlessness; qualities severely lacking in fashion these days.

Now I guess this goes back to the fashion and politics discussion, can a genuine and well-intentioned statement such as this ever be taken seriously within the context of the fashion circus.

[Ahimsa]

On SZ-mag

[Faust]

Our photos are better than all other photos, if I may say so myself.

[stemcell]

He has rightfully gone on a lot about women's strength, togetherness, nurturing, etc alongside the dialogue of the aggressiveness, loneness or coldness, etc of men— I'd like to see the opposite some time soon. Or at least make a shift for men, to some degree, once. There is definitely something to be said about brotherhood, fatherhood, and the fact that men are being judged and pushed towards a more progressive requirement for being human, showing emotion, caring, etc. He uses so many sports and military references, both instances where men literally carry men all the time. And I guess... maybe a little reaching... but for the record, I don't think all women are necessarily caring nurturing angels either. Absolutely love the show and his ideas and references every collection. John Chamberlain is great. The music was incredible. Still glad to see women being showcased as not purely weak or sexual objects, although I feel like every season that idea gets a little more obvious. From just a design perspective, I think preferred mens cyclops.

[Faust]

I agree, stemcell, but anything gender-related has become impossible to talk about - it only produces poison. Including on SZ, unfortunately, which I thought was safe from PC bullshit.

[stemcell]

TRUTH.

[lowrey]

That statement has more to do with your own view of sexuality than anything applicable to the show.

maybe, but Rick himself seems to be saying the same thing.

[lowrey]

the SZ photos are great, made me like the collection a lot more than those shitty ones!

[DudleyGray]

I wouldn't call it PC bullshit. It's is more a matter of privilege. Like if you are financially privileged, it's bad form to make a difference in wealth explicit in conversation with someone less fortunate. Similarly, in a heteronormative, patriarchal society, it's bad form for a heterosexual male to say things that only reinforce the status quo. It's not bullshit, but being self and socially aware enough to conduct oneself with class. Not everything needs to be said, it's really not important to let the world know inconsequential things like whose azz you'd tap, not that anyone here is on that level.

I'm not so cynical to think his statements are just publicity stunts and branding. These kinds of shows are too risky, the execution too good and thoughtful, the background of the designer too consistent. Maybe you have to be someone who has put out creative work to understand the feeling of vulnerability that can go along with any kind of performance outside the norm to see it. He's so legit and I'm so enamored, it adds something extra to wearing his clothes, which is more than enough of a pleasure on its own.

Also, great photos.

[Faust]

I don't think so, with reference to above. I won't speak for stemcell, but I think what he was referring to was that Rick's positivist statement is impossible to criticize and any comparison between sexes in this day and age of PC police breathing down your neck.

For example, if I were to say that from what I have observed throughout my life and lives of women that I know and the mountains of books I have read that women's sisterhood is largely a myth - that as many women as not are super competitive, scheming, mean-spirited, egotistical, ungenerous, and spiteful to other women - from the time when they become tweens and on, whereas the brotherhood of men is more real and can be affirmed in such institutions as the army and sports, I would be crucified. Of course I will say no such thing.

[DudleyGray]

Hahaha, perhaps, but I wouldn't disagree with you, and I'd be laughing as they were nailing you to the cross.

[Fuuma]

I don't think so, with reference to above. I won't speak for stemcell, but I think what he was referring to was that Rick's positivist statement is impossible to criticize and any comparison between sexes in this day and age of PC police breathing down your neck.

For example, if I were to say that from what I have observed throughout my life and lives of women that I know and the mountains of books I have read that women's sisterhood is largely a myth - that as many women as not are super competitive, scheming, mean-spirited, egotistical, ungenerous, and spiteful to other women - from the time when they become tweens and on, whereas the brotherhood of men is more real and can be affirmed in such institutions as the army and sports, I would be crucified. Of course I will say no such thing.

It is true that you might have observed it but demonstrably false that it is so. Traits like competitiveness and risk-taking are culture-specific and various experiments have shown that the spread between men and women in say competitiveness will vary according to patriarchal and matriarchal structures (i.e. Indonesian women show a larger propensity for competitive risk taking than Kenyan ones, all things being equal). Other factors that may influence such things might be equal/unequal distribution of inheritance, primogeniture having strong effect on wider social structures and perception of the importance of equality when weighted against other values.

As for the PC debate I don't give a fuck about checking my privilege and encourage people to have opinions pertaining to groups other than their own (universalism and a wider social project are important to me) but the anti-PC discourse is both facile and falsely subversive as about 50% of the population agrees with any stupid comment labelled as anti-pc and is quick to point out how courageous it is.

[Faust]

I did not say this was a rule. I was saying that neither is a rule. Also, I am quite sure Rick works with a fairly specific, Western cultural context and does not give a flying fuck about gender roles in Kenya.

[stemcell]

I think one of the problems with bringing up gender is that people tend to dive deep instantly and miss the simplicity of the surface of the point that might be being made, or the question being asked.

Evidence for my point exists as Rick himself. He is a man. All of his recent shows about women have been about nurturing, love, family, togetherness, sisterhood, etc. As a man he is capable of presenting that show and concept. Therefor, men who are potential customers could be capable of receiving/expressing it as well.

The most obvious example I can think of is ann demeulemeester (pre departure), always bringing the romanticism and emotional capacities of both genders together on one stage. I was only saying that while I love everything rick has done for men and women so far, I'd love to see his take on something masculine but a little softer or loving, perhaps that's odd word choice. Both in his statements and references for the show, but also in the pieces themselves — they are so nearly unisex as it is, and yet I still feel a longing for a few of the women's pieces to be cut for men.

Does any of that clarify? I had no intention of bringing up a larger conversation on gender— really only saying that Rick is such a sweetheart (and I guess a selfish cunt, as we've been told), and as a man, I'd like to see him relay that a bit.