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The case for expensive clothes

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  • Faust
    kitsch killer
    • Sep 2006
    • 37852

    #31
    Originally posted by justin_bridou View Post
    Listen, Eugene, I think YOU ARE MISSING the fucking point again
    Listen, Bernie* - I was not being insulting. I was being flip. But I see that being French, humor is not your thing. I understand - you are too busy shaking your fist at social injustice. I'm with you.

    Now with this post you went and totally supported what I said. I don't even know what we are arguing about anymore. The least you can do is quote my post and highlight the bits you disagree with, so I have a better understanding of what you are talking about.

    Another point I wanted to make is that (at least in America) the middle class forever chasing bargains and the capitalist class forever chasing profits was a perfect storm for killing off the garment industry (among others) and shipping the very blue collar jobs that American politicians now posturing about overseas. So, cry me a fucking river. If people would be willing to pay fair prices maybe those jobs would return. And that's a very big and unlikely maybe, as we have already lost those skills and you'd need to educate an entire generation all over again. Now, go buy your H&M if you want, since you have only 1500 euros a month to live on - but stop talking about my privilege. I grew up poor - I have a feeling I know much more about it than you do.

    *Bernie Sanders

    P.S. Christopher Hitchens taught me not to write "I think" because it's pretty damn obvious that it's me doing the thinking when I write.
    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

    StyleZeitgeist Magazine

    Comment

    • justin_bridou
      Member
      • Feb 2015
      • 40

      #32
      Originally posted by Faust View Post
      Listen, Bernie* - I was not being insulting. I was being flip. But I see that being French, humor is not your thing.
      Eugene, it was not clear if you were insulting or not, that is why I wrote "maybe". And for what it worth, I did not feel insulted, otherwise I simply would not have answered. Please, understand that being french, I don't have the same references as you. And maybe it is humor again, but serving me your cliché about the french people certainly does not help. For what it worth, calling people by their name is certainly the least one can do to preserve cordiality in a discussion.
      Originally posted by Faust View Post
      you are too busy shaking your fist at social injustice
      I'm sure I'm not just shaking my fist, I'm 45, I made choices that oriented my life years ago and i'm doing social actions to help people in my town on a daily basis and on my free time, like giving free lectures, free sport courses and so on. As I earn more than me and my family are needing, some % of what I earn go to help funding the activities I talked about above. because yes, I don't understand how some people can earn so much, and always find ways to use it for their own benefits. call it social injustice, I prefer to call it "how egoism won against altruism".

      Originally posted by Faust View Post
      So, cry me a fucking river.
      no,I'm just delivering my point of view, resulting from my experience, which is different than yours but maybe deserves also some kind of respect, as everyone else's opinion.

      Originally posted by Faust View Post
      Now, go buy your H&M if you want, since you have only 1500 euros a month to live on - but stop talking about my privilege.
      where did you read that I was talking about yourself (the privileges) and myself (the 1500 euros, the H&M) ? you were not trying to be insulting for sure, but if it is the only couple of things that you got from what I wrote, you definitely have reading troubles (you seem to like humor isn't it ?)
      but anyway, you wrote we agreed, having the assent from the leader will certainly make my day
      Last edited by justin_bridou; 11-01-2015, 01:58 AM.

      Comment

      • Faust
        kitsch killer
        • Sep 2006
        • 37852

        #33
        All right, all right - peace. And respect for what you do. Basically, probably like you, I am disappointed with humanity. I was taught in the USSR, probably like you did in France, that progress is so obviously good that it's inevitable and that the more time passes the more morally upright and decent people will become. And here we are in the 21st Century and much that we were taught turned out to be not true and that people are as often shitty as they are not (or more) and they do shitty things as often as they do good ones (or more). And more and more I am turning inward - doing good things for myself, and for the ones who I love and who are close to me (daughter, girlfriend, immediate family, a few friends).

        The way I see it (and now we are completely getting off topic, and I am getting all personal on a public forum, but it's worth it) - love and care works in three circles - you need to love yourself, those close to you, and then the stranger (i.e. other human beings). Now, I grew up in the USSR, so the idea of loving and caring for yourself we were not taught. Plus, I am Jewish, so doubly so. It was not until I started reading up on Buddhism in my mid-20s that I realized that it's ok to love and care for yourself, because if you don't, it becomes much harder to love and care for others. So, I had some catching up to do in terms of gaining self-esteem and confidence and letting go of anger and finding peace. Still working on it. But, yeah, I am increasingly turning inwards, tightening my circle.

        People ask me if I go back to Russia (well, Belarus, technically, but it's all the same shit to me) - and I say, why would I go back to a country that has betrayed me, a country that I left because it betrayed me. It taught me to love and care and be empathetic and that through that we would build a better world - I held up my end of the bargain and it did not hold up its. And that's how I increasingly feel about the world. It taught me to believe in progress, in enlightenment - and where is it now, I ask? What would Matthew Arnold say today? Where is the sweetness and light? Instead we have darkness and H&M.

        P.S. I am voting for Bernie Sanders I was just joking with you.
        Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

        StyleZeitgeist Magazine

        Comment

        • justin_bridou
          Member
          • Feb 2015
          • 40

          #34
          Originally posted by Faust View Post
          ...
          thank you for sharing this E., it is much appreciated.

          Comment

          • Lex1017
            Senior Member
            • Jul 2015
            • 175

            #35
            Originally posted by justin_bridou View Post
            or you could also just spend <500$ on bullshit clothing. it may be bullshit, but it may last a few years though. By doing this, as you don't seem to earn that much, you would be able to save money to eat quality food (and live longer, and spend more time with your children and grandchildren) or travel around the world and enlarge your vision of the living experience by discovering different cultures, or go to "expensive" cultural manifestations and so on. maybe you are already doing this, but if not, and if you are close to be broke, it may be worth considering that option too
            The 1500 - 3000 thing was an exaggeration, and of course clothing is not the most important thing in the world. Sorry if it was too harshly conveyed. I agree there are many more important things/experiences you could/should spend your money on other than clothes. I suppose whatever your timeframe/budget, I just believe you should be spending your money more concentrated/wisely on clothes. I personally want things that are well made, ethically made, and are timeless for MY style. I would say my wardrobe is pretty focused at this point so i'm not buying things seasonally for the trendy colour or cut. I am buying them for my style for life (if they hold up/I take good care of them). I guess that's my main point. Once you have found your style. Spend more on pieces you will wear for longer so you edit down your wardrobe with key pieces and don't clog it with yearly junk purchases. Maybe I am just boring.

            Comment

            • Matias_Zurich
              Junior Member
              • Nov 2015
              • 8

              #36
              Even though i am among those who buy designer clothing, some of the pieces i buy, though they last longer thanks to quality, don't stay relevant - not that they are supposed to stay relevant.. How is longevity measured

              Plus most of the time, they are delicate and fragile so i tend to wear them less even if they are relevant..At such times, i find myself buying cheap versions of the designer items i own to keep the originals intact.

              Comment

              • round
                Senior Member
                • Aug 2015
                • 157

                #37
                Originally posted by Faust View Post
                It was not until I started reading up on Buddhism in my mid-20s that I realized that it's ok to love and care for yourself, because if you don't, it becomes much harder to love and care for others.
                Not that this is related to the conversation at hand, but this phrase stuck out to me. This has recently become a big motto of mine, because of a program I work I have learned that loving yourself is ultimately the most important thing I can do, it was put to me this way "you don't care about yourself, nor do you help yourself, how do you think you can help anyone else?" This can often appear as selfishness, however for me, it is a survival mechanism, and a way to increase my overall wellbeing.

                On the topic of "The case for expensive clothes" the main reason I got into buying "artisanal garments" was because I appreciate the aspect of personality and closeness that comes with said garments. After being around this sort of work for a while, I learned the human cost of the clothes that H&M/Zara/Gap produces, this destroyed all of my past love for fast fashion. I no longer like to engage in the business of human suffering, so that I may have a $10 hoodie.

                Comment

                • Faust
                  kitsch killer
                  • Sep 2006
                  • 37852

                  #38
                  Originally posted by round View Post
                  Not that this is related to the conversation at hand, but this phrase stuck out to me. This has recently become a big motto of mine, because of a program I work I have learned that loving yourself is ultimately the most important thing I can do, it was put to me this way "you don't care about yourself, nor do you help yourself, how do you think you can help anyone else?" This can often appear as selfishness, however for me, it is a survival mechanism, and a way to increase my overall wellbeing.
                  It's not survival or selfishness, whether perceived or real. It's about gaining equanimity within yourself, something you should have before helping others.
                  Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                  StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                  Comment

                  • Ulf
                    Member
                    • Apr 2014
                    • 54

                    #39
                    A lot of people buy cheap, fast fashion because they don't really notice the difference – they don't get why it might be worth spending $2000 on a jacket instead of $100. Not that a high price guarantees quality, but real quality is never cheap. Some designers produce stuff that is only a half step up from H&M and sell at Chanel prices. There is so much crap out there, and so little good stuff, that many simply haven't learnt to distinguish between them. You need access to high quality to understand the difference.

                    I don't expect people to stop buying landfill fodder as long as they can't see and feel the difference between cheap and expensive – and that difference is sometimes very small, because most designers have been cutting corners for many years. But sure, there is less to throw away if you buy fewer garments.

                    I will admit that I shop a lot, but I actually keep and wear most of my clothes for years. They do not end up in a landfill with tags still on them.

                    Comment

                    • round
                      Senior Member
                      • Aug 2015
                      • 157

                      #40
                      Originally posted by Faust View Post
                      It's not survival or selfishness, whether perceived or real. It's about gaining equanimity within yourself, something you should have before helping others.
                      For me, it is survival, if I don't love myself before others, I will consistently do everything I can for other people, whilst ignoring my own mental stability, which would ultimately result in something bad for me. I do agree with you, equanimity is the MOST important thing to have in life, and the only way to help others is to help yourself first.

                      Comment

                      • twelve12twelve
                        Member
                        • Jul 2015
                        • 37

                        #41
                        Originally posted by Matias_Zurich View Post
                        Even though i am among those who buy designer clothing, some of the pieces i buy, though they last longer thanks to quality, don't stay relevant - not that they are supposed to stay relevant
                        Stay relevant to what exactly, what everyone else is wearing? You're missing the point of this clothing somewhat if that's meant how it sounds, (or focusing on another niche not generally associated with this forum).

                        If you mean relevant to your own tastes, sure - that happens.

                        Comment

                        • Matias_Zurich
                          Junior Member
                          • Nov 2015
                          • 8

                          #42
                          But the pieces are buy are never truly relevant (how can a sweater above 1200 euros can be what everyone else is wearing)..
                          i meant relevant both to my taste and the designer's taste. prada for instance. the label right now is completely different from what it represented in the early 2000s, the era i still relate to,which is no longer relevant to prada. the same can be said for a few designers who are probably more associated with this forum as well..

                          Comment

                          • Ulf
                            Member
                            • Apr 2014
                            • 54

                            #43
                            Originally posted by Matias_Zurich View Post
                            i meant relevant both to my taste and the designer's taste. prada for instance. the label right now is completely different from what it represented in the early 2000s, the era i still relate to,which is no longer relevant to prada. the same can be said for a few designers who are probably more associated with this forum as well..
                            What are you saying? That you can't wear an old Prada piece because it doesn't look like today's Prada? I'm confused here, tbh.

                            Comment

                            • Matias_Zurich
                              Junior Member
                              • Nov 2015
                              • 8

                              #44
                              What i'm saying is that i don't wear today's Prada as i won't change my taste in accordance with Miuccia's whims. ''This season, i wanted it to look girly and candy'' Good on ya mate

                              Comment

                              • deadboy
                                Senior Member
                                • Jul 2013
                                • 107

                                #45
                                In other words, it's not relevant to you?

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