Is it time for a Reboot?

[ADreamofBlue]

1. Customers can be a little more direct and honest in this feedback to brands as it helps to know what a brand is doing right and not in order to strengthen relations
   

This, right here, is something I don't think people assume to be ok. Telling a designer, to his/her face, that his/her work is just not up to snuff seems taboo. There's also the problem of thinking voicing your opinion is an exercise in futility as while you may not like it, 99 others will and the designer's going to go with the masses - in essence, following the money trail.

This comes back to art being subjective and "who are you to tell someone blahblahblah?" If a designer welcomes criticism and asks for it from the consumer (or myself, I suppose), I'll dole it out. However, I wouldn't go out of my way to, in a sense, insult somebody's work if it's not to my tastes. My tastes... I question how out of touch I am with the mainstream/majority opinion sometimes.

[Faust]

As much as I would like to this, I have a very hard time seeing this ever happening. Especially on StyleZeitgeist...

LOLWUT?

[zamb]

This, right here, is something I don't think people assume to be ok. Telling a designer, to his/her face, that his/her work is just not up to snuff seems taboo. There's also the problem of thinking voicing your opinion is an exercise in futility as while you may not like it, 99 others will and the designer's going to go with the masses - in essence, following the money trail.

This comes back to art being subjective and "who are you to tell someone blahblahblah?" If a designer welcomes criticism and asks for it from the consumer (or myself, I suppose), I'll dole it out. However, I wouldn't go out of my way to, in a sense, insult somebody's work if it's not to my tastes. My tastes... I question how out of touch I am with the mainstream/majority opinion sometimes.

Zfactorie IRON CLAD FEEDBACK RULE #1: take only advice or criticism from those who have supported your work, because then you are sure its genuine, not those who have never spent a penny with you

edit: regarding the issue of distance between creator and consumer. I understand the power of that, and the mystique that comes with it and how it can and does help SOME brands.
Personally, I knew early on that that was never going to be the way for me......I have experienced the downsides of being too accessible, However it is also my accessibility that has allowed me to build a sustainable company in a way i would not be able to had I taken the other route.

I have had people ask me, why I post here or on forums and gave thought that I should stop. not taking a swipe at anyone but its funny most of those people are not in business now, so so much for their advice

[Ahimsa]

3. We have sent customers to the stores whop carries our products. we get inquiries all the time of stores closer to the client for a for specific products and we send the clients there rather than always buying from us.

4. the relationship between designer and stores is something to discuss and a clear plan developed between the designer/ supplier and the store. One policy we used to have is to not sell on out website items that were carried in the stores. We changed that a while back and its never been an issue with stores who usually have very good sell through with our products.

I personally believe that boutiques would be better served to do this and to work with each other than the cutthroat attitude many have with each other.

We've gotten calls before from stores threatening to pull because of the same styles being offered at nearby competing boutiques. They are doing exactly what e-commerce sites want them to do, they are killing each other.

[zamb]

I suggest you reread your post and think about how to express yourself coherently as your speech is conflicting and beyond my understanding.

[aussy]

I would love to see greater working relationships between stores and designers. and for me i will personally push for this as it benefits everybody

For sure. High end, retail stores across every market have been asking for increasingly unrealistic margins and production deadlines from makers in order to meet consumer demands. And of course, some retailers are more ruthless, asking for consignment instead or neglecting to pay designers at all. This is a slippery, self destructive slope. Even the benefits the consumer receives are diminishing since this model results in ramped up, unobtanium prices or boring, same brand clothing. And of course the producers and retailers suffer first, in that order.

I once worked for a 'boutique', music retailer and in my experience, boutique guitar pedals are one of the earlier markets affected by the internet and the current state of high end, niche retail. Competition, overlap, etc. lead the company to establish their current, forever sale business model. Other stores followed suit and the market soon came to expect that. Margins were contested, builders started requesting for their products to be excluded from the sales and eventually dropped said retailer and focused on selling directly.

Who benefits from this shift? It limits the customer base of both the store and the builder. Obviously, the most successful builders at that time were those who were able to straddle this line and sell their 'main line' to stores, while continuing to sell one offs, custom graphics, etc. directly, but is that a compromise the fashion retail industry would accept? (see Ahima's response, though in that case a greater diversification of product sold in stores vs. directly could have helped)

Instead, brands should be limiting their production, interacting directly with consumers by limiting the outlets for selling their product ideally to their own website, and relying on a rabid fan base who are willing to be wait-listed for the next release.

I agree. Matching supply to demand immediately is great for a quick buck, but what happens when everyone who wants one of your patchwork leather jackets already has one? The hype is gone.

[petricor]

the elephant in the room is the fact that, as zam mentioned, as a customer, once you've gotten your foundation, you will hardly buy more pieces--there's a steep wardrobe building curve. this makes the problem of customer "loyalty" almost moot.

the problem of innovation for the sake of sales is also moot assuming these brands share an ethos against conspicuous consumption (e.g. the 'aesthetic' planned obsolescence of sorts inherently instituted by the fashion seasons and cycles).

if you are not selling more stuff to the people who already bought, and you're not making radically different stuff so they have new needs, then the only other option is to grow your client base which seems to be at odds with the idea of being niche and being exclusive.

unfortunately, it's a no brainer: the market might be saturated (by clothes, customers and designers), and most will go under. that's what happens when your business model is at odds with the logic of neoliberal capitalism.

i think the re-boot is already here. it's happening constantly spreading over a very long period of time. the fact that it seems slow to us, doesn't detract from its violence.

[round]

RO and 11 are not artisanal with pseudo-avant-garde nature, so don't be jealous of their commercial success.

What? I don't think anything zam has posted thus far has been even closely related to jealousy of Rick or any other designer for that matter.

Also for me, I would never sell a garment that I TRUELY love in order to buy another. So when I sell, maybe it's because the garment isn't attractive enough for me any more, and that imho isn't 100% the owner's fault.

Of course it is the owner's fault, if you, as a consumer do not take the time to truly look over a garment and take time to decide if it is something you love then you are doing a disservice to yourself, and the designer.

This fast-fashion culture and buying on a whim is a HUGE contributor to reselling, if people (myself included) took the time to carefully pick out each garment, choosing only the ones that they are truly in love with, then there wouldn't much, if any need to sell resell any garments.

[HugAndWug]

if people (myself included) took the time to carefully pick out each garment, choosing only the ones that they are truly in love with, then there wouldn't much, if any need to sell resell any garments.

Except for changes in size, differences in taste over time, changes in location etc etc. There are tons of reasons for why a reselling market will always exist, fast fashion isn't the biggest force.

[magic]

Seem like you are in a lost mate

[mikko]

For sure. High end, retail stores across every market have been asking for increasingly unrealistic margins and production deadlines from makers in order to meet consumer demands. And of course, some retailers are more ruthless, asking for consignment instead or neglecting to pay designers at all.

Lolwut, you do know that all these brands set their retail prices (and some for each continent)? And as it happens, in recent times the direct opposite to what you've stated has started to happen more and more, niche brands offer to retailers with no downpayment and significant upfront wholesale discounts just to keep afloat.

[zamb]

Ditto. Kind of like divorce, nowadays fewer people would think divorce is a sin. Yes I agree no brain consuming is wrong, or just blindly buying popular products to show off and then dump away to buy the next, but you can't guarantee your own aesthetics, etc won't change - them designers wear their own up-to-date outfits, I believe in a sense someone's used jacket makes more sense to belong to someone else who for the time being appreciates it more than Rick's own used jackets that he would never touch again, kept somewhere in his wardrobe palace forever.

As to jealousy, I'm not specifically pointing to Zam, well, I'd speculate that if he isn't, he should be because that would make him a complete human, I mean, right? Human nature. I'm just saying same way I'm jealous of (or say I admire) Apple's success, but I'm not from the hi-tech toy business. They are just in different business, you know?

Let me make it clear that this thread isnt about me, it is about the fashion industry and specifically this niche, the relationship between designers/ stores and consumers, of which some of us, myself included fits into all three categories.

Also, Human nature...........hmmm. projecting your own way of seeing things and making your personal feelings universal is to misappropriate human nature. i am not Rick and I am not Boris, nor am I jealous or desire to be like them. I have my own road to trek, my own trail to blaze and my own legacy to build. the word is big enough for all of us it find our place in. the Idea of being jealous of someone else's success is a sign of covetousness, not a part of human nature you want to glorify.

[zamb]

Lolwut, you do know that all these brands set their retail prices (and some for each continent)? And as it happens, in recent times the direct opposite to what you've stated has started to happen more and more, niche brands offer to retailers with no downpayment and significant upfront wholesale discounts just to keep afloat.

I dont think he is speaking only about Clothing, and yes he is correct, but you are also correct too, I have seen and am aware of both scenarios. lets just say there are a lot of different "arrangements" that exist, and all these are based on who has the power and how much of a desire one has to be associated with a brand or a store and what is needed to make the "marriage" work

[zamb]

Oh sorry if you felt offended, I also said I wasn't specifically talking about you, and the latter part is apparently half-joking. Don't take it so seriously - let me put it in other words - I'm not saying you want to be Rick, but in a sense you do want the kind of (commercial) success and recognition right? Otherwise you are not making sense - you want to be a designer but you don't want to be a successful and influential one. Like I said, it's only sad to see when money became the sole aesthetic for a designer.

Im not easily offended,
there are more serious things in life to be offended about
I want success, but success for me is very different from what it is for others
if my company is 100% owned by me, and we are making 10 million a year, with 3 or so being profit, which is very possible I am happy. Huge sums of Money is not my mission in life, of course its good to have, but there are more meaningful things to accomplish.

[round]

"Oh sorry if you felt offended"

This statement makes me more angry than anything else, the "oh sorry if you felt offended" bullshit is completely ignoring responsibility for saying something dumb, not everyone wants to be someone else, sometimes people strive to become their own person and make their own success. Don't push your weird ideals onto others, not everyone is the same.