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Cultural Figures You Are Expected to Like, but Don't

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  • Faust
    kitsch killer
    • Sep 2006
    • 37852

    #31
    Originally posted by galia View Post
    I would never live in the USA, it seems like a nightmare of ignorance, self righteousness and processed food. Ugh
    Spoken like a typical Frenchie ;)
    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

    StyleZeitgeist Magazine

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    • Dropt
      Senior Member
      • May 2009
      • 405

      #32
      Originally posted by galia View Post
      Xavier Dolan - admitedly have seen none of his films, so unfair and unfounded opinion, but everything I see about him and all the exerpts of his films I've seen have annoyed me way too much, I don't even want to give him a chance.
      That's an unfair treatment. He shows a very interesting progression and has an impressive body of work for his age. I feel like the medias love to portrait him as a generational/gay icon and that makes him an easy target to hate.

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      • Arkady
        Senior Member
        • Apr 2011
        • 957

        #33
        I do like how this thread turned into "shit I haven't bothered to have a look at."

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        • matglenn
          Member
          • Jun 2016
          • 90

          #34
          Originally posted by Faust View Post

          Ai Wei Wei - artist. I never got the appeal of his art as art. I can process it as political gestures, but as art I find it pretty pedestrian.
          If you look at his works as conceptual, which one should in my opinion, it isn't so much about the the "object" which i think you mean by "art." Excuse my quotations, but I think it is important with an artist like Ai Wei Wei to look at his work as art without as much reference to the final art object itself, and avoid judging his practice from installations/sculpture etc.

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          • Faust
            kitsch killer
            • Sep 2006
            • 37852

            #35
            Originally posted by Shifts View Post
            Morrissey I simply can't connect. Maybe more about the voice and music than the person, but still.
            I have had a serious turn around on Morrissey - now I cannot get enough. He is bitchy, for sure, but his meanness is righteous, he's after this despicable world. I totally get it.

            Wolfgang Tillmans - so fucking banal. I don't get it at all.

            Juergen Teller - same. This kind of "I am too cool for school" attitude of snapshot photos was Ok for a couple of years, but it's ran its course a long time ago.

            I believe both are taking a piss, especially Teller.
            Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

            StyleZeitgeist Magazine

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            • Faust
              kitsch killer
              • Sep 2006
              • 37852

              #36
              Originally posted by matglenn View Post
              If you look at his works as conceptual, which one should in my opinion, it isn't so much about the the "object" which i think you mean by "art." Excuse my quotations, but I think it is important with an artist like Ai Wei Wei to look at his work as art without as much reference to the final art object itself, and avoid judging his practice from installations/sculpture etc.
              I get that part. The thing is I think that political art, art as gesture, gets few, if any, real results. So, yes, I still would like to advocate for art as artwork. Picasso's Guernica would be a good and obvious example, the haunting work of Otto Dix, Goya, of course, etc.
              Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

              StyleZeitgeist Magazine

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              • matglenn
                Member
                • Jun 2016
                • 90

                #37
                Originally posted by Faust View Post
                The thing is I think that political art, art as gesture, gets few, if any, real results. So, yes, I still would like to advocate for art as artwork. Picasso's Guernica would be a good and obvious example, the haunting work of Otto Dix, Goya, of course, etc.
                Understandable. Although it's not really possible to measure the results of of political art, in a current contemporary context at least which I believe is the result of the horribly excessive nature of post-internet visual culture.

                I would argue for political art of the past wholeheartedly though, because it was actually intrinsically linked to social and political activism. For example If one thinks of second-wave feminism images of Martha Rosler, Kruger, Chicago etc would come to mind, and Adrian Piper using notions if intersectionality in performance moving into third-wave feminism. General Idea's IMAGEVIRUS campaign is essentially the visual manifestation of art activism following the Aids crisis.

                I suppose the idea of "art as artwork" is rather complicated too. I think that "art" (ideas of medium specificity [painting] in this context) in the traditional sense is important, but I do not know if it should necessarily be advocated. Although one should appreciate aesthetic qualities of art objects, It is also important to keep in mind that painting as a medium is conditioned by ideologies and its relationship to power. Picasso's Guernica, for example is incredibly charming to look at but are also a result of the colonial and racist nature of his process. So I guess I'd have to disagree with the importance of "art as artwork," i do not think that Clement Greenberg and Modernist ideologies were productive in art history, and it took until post-modernism for art history and institutional practices to begin to move into a more productive place. My apologies if unpacked the comment too much, I just have strong feelings about art history hah

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                • Faust
                  kitsch killer
                  • Sep 2006
                  • 37852

                  #38
                  No, I find your response refreshing. Maybe I've read too much Robert Hughes :-) I know I'm in the minority, but I agree with him on many things. I find the likes of Barbara Kruger and Jenny Holzer (sorry Helmut) to be lame - their artwork seems so facile. I do think that Greenberg had the right idea but did not know that he's leading a dead-end movement.
                  Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                  StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                  Comment

                  • Caetano
                    Junior Member
                    • Apr 2014
                    • 25

                    #39
                    Great thread, didnt see it before!

                    Agree with what you guys said about Ai Wei Wei, The Beatles and Wes Anderson.

                    As for writers, I would say:
                    Jonathan Franzen - I always have a grat time with his novels, that's good when an author can pen from the eye of the hurricane (the hurricane being our times). But I don't see much substance in them and the essays are just overrated, not to say boring, with all this birdwatching references.

                    David Foster Wallace and Thomas Pynchon - I put them together cause they are hell obsessive with their writings, but hell shallow when you read them. (Dunno if i made myself clear ???)

                    Singers/bands:

                    Bjork - cant get through her puerile voice with exotic English pronunciation. Add it to the noise (love "noise music" in general) and you have a seizure.

                    Rolling Stones - just can't listen. But I see the importance for pop music.

                    Actors:

                    Jennifer Lawrence - she's Kristen Stewart with 2 milimeters more of facial muscles oscillation.

                    Will Smith's son (forgot his name) - he's Kristen Stewart with 2 meters less of facial muscles oscillation.

                    Fashion figures:

                    Alexander Mcqueen: i see a lot of personality and some collections are stunning. But overall I just felt an attempt to epater le bourgeois.

                    Hope there is not much hate in my text, cause there wasnt.
                    “Given the choice between the experience of pain and nothing, I would choose pain." William Faulkner

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                    • timm3h
                      Senior Member
                      • Mar 2011
                      • 115

                      #40
                      Expected to like, but don't: Malcolm Gladwell. Guy's a good journalist and writer, but damn if he doesn't see the world in black and white, and he sure isn't afraid to sacrifice logic to make his point sound compelling.

                      Expected not to like, but do: Michael Lewis. I thought Flash Boys (intentionally) demonized HFT and didn't paint a clear picture of the issue. But after reading The Undoing Project he's redeemed himself to me, it's a great book.
                      Clothing deconstruction & review

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                      • korzo
                        Junior Member
                        • Mar 2020
                        • 6

                        #41
                        Late to the party but this thread truly is a gem

                        A little assortment of cultural figures I do not like at all no matter how propagated they are:

                        - Marina Abramovic - well, it isn't really her that I do not like particularly but the image she is presented every time. Many believe that she is the face of performance art, a pioneer in art or something while all she does is 'gentrifying' the performance art that was for a voluntary reason always out of the mainstream, She distills what the Viennese actionists did or the French performance artists.

                        - Jean-Paul Sartre - he is anything but a relevant philosopher in my eyes. Bear in mind that I had to read his oeuvres both in my mother tongue and French as well, so I think I have a pretty fine knowledge of what he wanted to say but it never really crossed my interest line. Plain, simple thoughts for plain and simple minds.

                        - Ayn Rand, JB Peterson, Zizek - I am not willing to comment on this one.

                        - Kehinde Wiley - same with Abramovic. He is obviously gifted when it comes to art but he is as overhyped as it gets.

                        - Pink Floyd - never ever understood why so so many people love them. Their music is as simple as a ringtone, the lyrics are kitschy and full of clichés.

                        - Piet Mondrian - I understand that he was a revolutionary figure of the early Belgian-Dutch avant-garde and yes, I read his stuff on his ars poetica but God damn his artworks are ugly and boring. If you read what he wanted to represent with his art you could understand my feelings. He had such a great view on art and its liaison with life I wonder why he had the urge to paint when he could have been one of the finest art historians/philosophers of all time.

                        - Thom Browne - I might be a close-minded European who doesn't understand the 'Great challenges of the American business suit' but his stuff is boring and very much out of my taste. However, his shows are wonderful and I have to admit that he is one of the most creative runway show-maker in recent fashion history. Watched a short video of him designing (basically, he can't draw anything, cannot do sketches at all so he draws circles and lines like Moholy-Nagy or El Lissitky and hands it to his design staff who actually make the sketches and clothes happen) and I was wondering how bad must it be to work under his hands.

                        - Pablo Picasso - In my opinion, he was the Virgil Abloh of modern art. Plain drawings, simple messages (Guernica = war = bad = suffering), and literally borrowed the styles and forms of earlier lesser-known artists. I always liked Braque more.

                        - Banksy - does he even count as a cultural figure?

                        Just a quick rundown, I usually get that I detest everyone from my friends. I am starting to believe they are right. I agree with you all on Ai Weiwei, Basquiat, and Warhol whom I find extremely detrimental to contemporary art.
                        Last edited by korzo; 05-09-2020, 10:02 AM.

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                        • DannyDagger
                          Member
                          • Nov 2018
                          • 35

                          #42
                          Good thread to revive.

                          Adrian Joffe - So he's involved in the business aspect of CDG and its branches, but I don't see why people are enamoured with him. Probably uncalled for and I may be totally wrong, but I feel like the only reason people interview him is because of Rei. Also this interview... http://vestoj.com/whats-wrong-with-t...hion-industry/ "Long live the one percent; they are the ones that change things."

                          John Oliver, Jimmy Fallon, etc. - I don't really find them funny and I feel like they worsen social and political conversation, contrary to what many think. Often complicated issues reduced to quips and one-liners - no thank you. I count them as cultural figures because people look up to them as such.

                          Billie Eilish - Her music is uninteresting and just another way for basic girls to feel edgy and rebellious without having to do anything. And now she's integrated into the fashion industry, so it won't stop any time soon. I will say however that she had a good point about how people viewed her body, she's quite sincere in that respect and I feel bad for her.

                          Elon Musk - He's great at his projects but I wish he would stop talking so damn much... Avoid his Twitter at all costs.

                          LeBron James - Not sure how many people follow the NBA but he irritates me a little bit. He's had many commendable philanthropic projects and seems like a great person especially considering his background, but sometimes his social and political comments are totally off the mark. I mention him here because he's worshipped as a God with anyone I talk to, who can do no wrong on or off the basketball court.

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                          • darkpyramid
                            Member
                            • Dec 2019
                            • 52

                            #43
                            - Marina Abramovic

                            Marina is a good proof for fake art
                            Always wear the Dark Artist dress while actually she never meet the dark art ever in her life
                            Dark art is not rolling in black with skulls and bloody satanic stars

                            Dark art means your deep thoughts in life and not to look in details but to look in the details of the details !!!!

                            Just she have to come here and we could teach her what the two words of dark art means
                            Last edited by darkpyramid; 05-15-2020, 05:46 PM.

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                            • Faust
                              kitsch killer
                              • Sep 2006
                              • 37852

                              #44
                              Sadly, I tend to agree about Marina. Camus over Sartre any day.

                              Bansky is a more complicated figure. So, I used to think the same way as you, korzo. But, lately here is what I am thinking - he has actually made a valiant effort to show that rebellion against late capitalism is futile - that you will inevitably be absorbed. I don't think he is rebelling against it, but highlighting it. I started feeling that way after the Sotheby's auction. There, Banksy showed that you can literally destroy your work - the last frontier of rebellion - and it will still be absorbed into the art market. So, I get what you are saying - I had a big discussion about Bansky with my wife just two days ago about that - but I'm more ambivalent.

                              But, brother, I could never agree with you about Pink Floyd :-)

                              Danny, I'll take Billie Eilish over most of pop music today. Granted it's a low bar but beggars can't be choosers. She ain't no Lorde, though. Lorde is the only true talent contemporary pop music has produced.

                              Got a new one - John Updike. Was so excited to get into his writing and was bored to tears.
                              Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                              StyleZeitgeist Magazine

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                              • Faust
                                kitsch killer
                                • Sep 2006
                                • 37852

                                #45
                                Oh, I remembered after reading another article on him. Alexander Calder. His art says absolutely nothing.
                                Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                                StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                                Comment

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