At Joyce With Dries Van Noten and Rick Owens

[Ahimsa]

To me it appears that everything is much more strict these days, almost to a corporate level. Designers seem to be much more business oriented rather than being artists(not disrespecting their talent in any way). Not to sound too cliche but where are the wild parties, the social gathering, the fashion designers mixed with musicians and models and directors etc' etc' it's almost seems that this bohemian scene is gone or much more strict(again, trying not to sound too cliche but i hope you get the point).

Regarding the music industry, many DJ's and musicians don't take many of these shows. Richie has his own line in Ibiza, Klock, Dettmann and the ostgut ton crew generally seem to keep it "underground" like many other DJs. There is somewhat of "join forces" movement where people don't want the VIP crap and are willing to pay just to avoid that scene. Especially with clubs like Berghain, Block, Rebel Rebel etc' where you can't take photos anymore and its a very freeing environment from the instant gratification culture and the "look at me" posts on FB. Obviously it's not enough but it's a good beginning and hopefully we'll see more of it. Unfortunately it does come with a large amount of pretentious idiots, being "underground" just for the sake of "underground".

The NYC bohemia has been currently on the rise, in a pseudo sense, or strict like you said. You have places like Paul's Baby Grand, Paul's Casablanca, Provocateur (to a more clubby extent), where you can smoke inside, do drugs, etc. Yes they have the intermix of models, celebrities, designers, etc. but it's strangely forced and fake feeling with reserved tables/bottle service taking away that intermixing of creatives, like an established hierarchy within the clubs. Due to the expensive drinks and 'prestige', the door is mostly regulated by who you are, who you know, and how much money it looks like you're wearing. So essentially it feels like you're going to a The Loft themed club. I did get to have a wonderful chat with a novelist about Cloak who I met outside smoking at one, but that's really the best highlight I've had.
As Faust said about the designer-celebrity relationship being so strong, I'd say these places are basically selfie parties to up your Instagram game. The organic scene is definitely missing, it feels like we're in a marketed creative scene matrix.

Re. music, there has been a strong growth in the underground scene in NYC as well. It's emulating places like Berghain with 36 hour raves, no pictures, smoking/drugs inside, people mostly naked, etc. It's very luckily still relatively not filled with the 'pretentious' yet, as there is a core group. However, I'm waiting to see when condos will overtake any available warehouses/suitable locations. Bossa Nova already has plans to build out a warehouse into a full fledged club, so waiting for the 'Ibiza effect' to overtake the scene I guess :/

I think these scenes show a desire or longing for something good, but as with designer fashion now, most people haven't experienced what they used to be like (myself included), so there's no solid comparison for that 'authenticity' of old, and thus we come out with something far more marketable and profitable to help quench that longing. But of course the days of yore cannot be recreated so we end up with something that's the result of modern proclivity.

[Faust]

The NYC bohemia has been currently on the rise, in a pseudo sense, or strict like you said. You have places like Paul's Baby Grand, Paul's Casablanca, Provocateur (to a more clubby extent), where you can smoke inside, do drugs, etc. Yes they have the intermix of models, celebrities, designers, etc. but it's strangely forced and fake feeling with reserved tables/bottle service taking away that intermixing of creatives, like an established hierarchy within the clubs. Due to the expensive drinks and 'prestige', the door is mostly regulated by who you are, who you know, and how much money it looks like you're wearing. So essentially it feels like you're going to a The Loft themed club. I did get to have a wonderful chat with a novelist about Cloak who I met outside smoking at one, but that's really the best highlight I've had.
As Faust said about the designer-celebrity relationship being so strong, I'd say these places are basically selfie parties to up your Instagram game. The organic scene is definitely missing, it feels like we're in a marketed creative scene matrix.

Re. music, there has been a strong growth in the underground scene in NYC as well. It's emulating places like Berghain with 36 hour raves, no pictures, smoking/drugs inside, people mostly naked, etc. It's very luckily still relatively not filled with the 'pretentious' yet, as there is a core group. However, I'm waiting to see when condos will overtake any available warehouses/suitable locations. Bossa Nova already has plans to build out a warehouse into a full fledged club, so waiting for the 'Ibiza effect' to overtake the scene I guess :/

I think these scenes show a desire or longing for something good, but as with designer fashion now, most people haven't experienced what they used to be like (myself included), so there's no solid comparison for that 'authenticity' of old, and thus we come out with something far more marketable and profitable to help quench that longing. But of course the days of yore cannot be recreated so we end up with something that's the result of modern proclivity.

Yep, everything is this

[Anton]

@Ahimsa: I definitely see what you're saying, I also think that the current celebrities, models, designer etc' are just not as interesting as those in the past and that combined with the situation you've described creates a horrible scene.

I wonder if and when that organic scene will come back, it seems that now everything is just flooded with the wrong people and attitude.

[Lex1017]

A LOT HAS HAPPENED.

Fashion like any other industry is a product of its times and the times we are living in really sucks.

1. There used to be less designers, or less people parading themselves around calling themselves designers. There is a glut of inexperienced, untalented people in the industry now, that neither has the technical expertise or the vision to produce good work. they are made famous on hype and connections and their clothes dominate the market in a way that should not have happened.

2. Fashion has become too fast, with designers and creators having to do too much to stay in business. There is almost little or no time to really think about ones ideas and really develop them in an innovative way.

3. The culture that made for great designers seem to have been completely lost.
John Galliano once said he used to go to thrift stores, buy corsets and pick them apart to see how they were made in Victorian times. Alexander McQueen was a trained tailor. Ann D. said she once made a shoe heel sample herself because no matter how much she explained it to the manufacturers they could not get it right. Now most designers make a sketch and pass it on to the production team or the sample maker in order to get the product done. This has to change, and designers go back to developing samples themselves in order to create a unique product.

4. I also think the middle class which really supports fashion on a scale that makes it viable has seriously eroded, there seem to be less money being spent on innovative designers nowadays. Fast fashion and knock off companies are the ones who seem to be making the most money by making the least amount of investment and taking less risk.

5. There are very few forward thinking stores anymore. There was a time when buyers had great relationship with customers, and they would buy a collection from a newer/ innovative designer, knowing that they could introduce it to their customers and the brand would sell because the buyer understood the aesthetic taste of his/ her client base and the customer trusted the word of the buyer and the buyer introduced and helped to develop designers. it doesn't seem t happen much anymore and there are few stores left who support up and comers without trying to exploit them into shitty agreements

6. I think the internet has been both a blessing and a curse to fashion. it has provided a great amount of exposure for a lot of brands and allow a reach across the globe that may not have been otherwise possible, but i also think it has allowed people to become Jaded, Cynical and have even devalued the work of some great people in a way that is bad for the industry overall........

7. Faust has already touched on how Big Money has corrupted fashion, so i will not even go into that.....

I am in school right now and this point rings o so very true. It's so frustrating to me that people don't want to know the process. I think the celebrity designer thing has had a huge impact on that mentality as well. People think designing is just making a picture and sending it off. I love the process. Drafting, cutting and sewing myself. Developing new blocks. Figuring out where I failed before to try and improve on it the next time around. I feel like there is so much bullshit design out there now because ultimately the designer gets a sample back and says "yup that looks about right". If you learn the process you know how to back track and change a garment where you want because you know how it came together. Drawing a picture and then having someone else handle the rest is so fucked to me. On top of all that the process is the best part. Making something you can wear from a bunch of materials and some know how is the coolest shit ever. I am sure getting to a higher level of output working with a team is crucial, but having those base skills to be able to lead a team and solve problems quickly through your own knowledge is important.

[slainbabyyc]

dude kids don't read shit on dazed faust your biggest problem is you're a literal dinosaur

[Faust]

dude kids don't read shit on dazed faust your biggest problem is you're a literal dinosaur

True. Ima go buy some Gosha Rubchinsky and Vetements sweatshirts to prove how with the times I am.