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Op-Ed: Is Balenciaga Socially Irresponsible?

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  • julian_doe
    Senior Member
    • Mar 2013
    • 339

    #16
    Originally posted by Nickefuge View Post
    How am I defending Gucci when the post you were quoting was referring to the 20k poly dress?
    Here you go:

    "I found Michele˚s Gucci garments to be quite well-made, actually. AT least better than I expected.
    But of course, it is tacky and has and has an expiration date, so to

    I gotta say though, they’re doing a good job creating their own visual world and executing it across all media channels. Many fashion labels are not as coherent as Gucci when it comes to that. But this is another topic, I’m digressing here …"

    Then you made a coment about "plastic being plastic" when I mentioned that I wasn't necessarily concerned about the fact Polyester was used, but rather the execution of the material as it is used by Gucci.

    You're all over the place, what is it that you are actually trying to say?

    Edit: And again, who do you think is exemplifying this environmentally conscious stance you opt for?

    Comment

    • zamb
      Senior Member
      • Nov 2006
      • 5834

      #17
      when you have not the capabilities to accomplish greatness, you must redefine what it means in order to make it applicable to you.
      I see a "designer" who cannot design, one who lacks the kind of vision to create something both beautiful and exceptional.
      The problem is solved as holding up the banal, the mundane and the average and trying to convince many that its great, its innovative and ground breaking...........

      the people are so fool that no matter how ugly and ridiculous the thing, once it has a certain name attached to it, then it has to be had...........
      the name becomes the status, and not the thing itself in today's world.

      they are winning, I have seen some people who i thought had great style and refined taste, selling out completely wearing those ridiculous sneakers. ill fitting hoodies and all that nonsense.
      the whole thing is shameful and disgusting
      “You know,” he says, with a resilient smile, “it is a hard world for poets.”
      .................................................. .......................


      Zam Barrett Spring 2017 Now in stock

      Comment

      • Nickefuge
        Senior Member
        • Nov 2014
        • 860

        #18
        Originally posted by julian_doe View Post
        "I found Michele˚s Gucci garments to be quite well-made, actually. AT least better than I expected.
        But of course, it is tacky and has and has an expiration date, so to

        I gotta say though, they’re doing a good job creating their own visual world and executing it across all media channels. Many fashion labels are not as coherent as Gucci when it comes to that. But this is another topic, I’m digressing here …"

        Then you made a coment about "plastic being plastic" when I mentioned that I wasn't necessarily concerned about the fact Polyester was used, but rather the execution of the material as it is used by Gucci.

        You're all over the place, what is it that you are actually trying to say?

        Edit: And again, who do you think is exemplifying this environmentally conscious stance you opt for?
        You’re right, so let me try to re-phrase the things I wrote and hopefully get my points across.

        I don’t think Gucci is appropriating garments of the lower-class, except for that one jacket (which they’ve made up for in my book by doing the whole Dapper Dan store thing), so I don’t think there’s a need to discuss them regarding this topic at all. Other than Balenciaga, whose whole concept is "poor but with a twist", Alessandro Michele has his own visual world he feeds off ("Ed Hardy on drugs").
        Lastly, while you weren’t concerned about poly being used, I am and that’s why I wrote what I wrote.
        There are designers who act environmentally conscious, off the top of my head I’m thinking Geoffrey B. Small, Y.Project, Jan-Jan Van Essche, Bruno Pieters; I’m not sure with all of them as I mostly buy 2nd-hand non-poly stuff so I'd have to do more research to give you a proper answer. But that’s a whole other topic and it’s already being discussed in an other thread, so let’s not go off-topic.
        "The only rule is don't be boring and dress cute wherever you go. Life is too short to blend in."
        -Paris Hilton

        Comment

        • Faust
          kitsch killer
          • Sep 2006
          • 37852

          #19
          Originally posted by Sombre View Post
          This is a great article, Faust. You've expressed some of what I despise about Gvaslia's work. It's lazy, derivative, childish, and dishonest. IMO he's creatively bankrupt for all the reasons you've stated and more. To pretend to be self-aware by inverting the expectation of luxury while blatantly copying the poor and the "uncool" (those sneakers, fanny packs) only achieves the opposite, especially given the growing financial gulf between the haves and the have-nots - among other tense social issues. It's the fashion equivalent of white people dressing in black face on Halloween (I know the trend isn't racially motivated but the comparison still stands). It reminds me of when Austin Sherbanenko said he took inspiration from homeless people because they look good wearing everything they own.

          I don't think there's anything redeemable about any of Gvaslia's work from an artistic point of view. His designs represent some of the worst of the industry, which is blindly following something because the cognoscenti deem it trendy. Unfortunately that means this latest garbage will become wildly popular and be a slap in the face of people who are just trying to make an honest living.
          Very much agreed. I am honestly saddened that this article did not receive a lot of attention, not for any ego reason, but because I think it's important. It seems like people are more concerned with identity politics than class.
          Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

          StyleZeitgeist Magazine

          Comment

          • Faust
            kitsch killer
            • Sep 2006
            • 37852

            #20
            Originally posted by zamb View Post
            when you have not the capabilities to accomplish greatness, you must redefine what it means in order to make it applicable to you.
            I see a "designer" who cannot design, one who lacks the kind of vision to create something both beautiful and exceptional.
            The problem is solved as holding up the banal, the mundane and the average and trying to convince many that its great, its innovative and ground breaking...........

            the people are so fool that no matter how ugly and ridiculous the thing, once it has a certain name attached to it, then it has to be had...........
            the name becomes the status, and not the thing itself in today's world.

            they are winning, I have seen some people who i thought had great style and refined taste, selling out completely wearing those ridiculous sneakers. ill fitting hoodies and all that nonsense.
            the whole thing is shameful and disgusting
            Totally. The fashion media is complicit in this and should be ashamed.
            Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

            StyleZeitgeist Magazine

            Comment

            • julian_doe
              Senior Member
              • Mar 2013
              • 339

              #21
              Originally posted by Nickefuge View Post
              You’re right, so let me try to re-phrase the things I wrote and hopefully get my points across.

              I don’t think Gucci is appropriating garments of the lower-class, except for that one jacket (which they’ve made up for in my book by doing the whole Dapper Dan store thing), so I don’t think there’s a need to discuss them regarding this topic at all. Other than Balenciaga, whose whole concept is "poor but with a twist", Alessandro Michele has his own visual world he feeds off ("Ed Hardy on drugs").
              Lastly, while you weren’t concerned about poly being used, I am and that’s why I wrote what I wrote.
              There are designers who act environmentally conscious, off the top of my head I’m thinking Geoffrey B. Small, Y.Project, Jan-Jan Van Essche, Bruno Pieters; I’m not sure with all of them as I mostly buy 2nd-hand non-poly stuff so I'd have to do more research to give you a proper answer. But that’s a whole other topic and it’s already being discussed in an other thread, so let’s not go off-topic.
              Thanks for your reply.

              Although I appreciate the fact that your thoughts were organized in order to support the information you are trying t convey, I am still having a hard time reading this information as supportive facts for what you are stating.

              2 Quick Points:

              -I disagree that Gucci does not continue to appropriate. As an example, Michele seems to love misspelling Gucci just as much as every knock off I have ever seen. There are people that buy fake Gucci because of the acclaim which society lends to the brand (colors/symbols/emblems). Michele is certainly not trying to cater to those people, because these COTTON PRINTED TEES start at $500 USD. However, by making designs of the sort he is SURE to receive attention from the people who are only able to purchase counterfeit items AND the bored fashion hipsters who buy $400 DHL tees.

              I ask, how does this moronic irony deserve that type of price tag? Where is the design genius behind a fucking printed tee? I agree that it is like Ed-Hardy on drugs...does that deserve any merit?

              I could provide endless examples, but there is one which encompasses all of your false claims about the brand, please follow the link below:



              -Polyester (and polyamide, and spandex) is not the most eco-friendly material to fabricate. However, it is used in a myriad of athletic and water resistant products. In fact, it is often used by ALL of the designers you named except for GBS.

              There is also a big difference between the jacket I shared above, and a boiled polyester blazer by CDG. The execution of the material is certainly mediocre as Michele/Demma uses it, and spectacularly used by the latter.

              I have a Polyamide DRKSHDW blazer which is light, water resistant, and beautifully crafted that I have been wearing in the wet/gross state of Florida, and have enjoyed endlessly.

              However, it is the only synthetic piece in my closet, and I agree that these pieces should be few in anyone's wardrobe.

              Good talk.

              Zam, you are always on point. I love the passion you weave into your every statement and into your every garment.

              Comment

              • zamb
                Senior Member
                • Nov 2006
                • 5834

                #22
                thanks Julian_doe.

                I clicked on the link to the outfit you posted and it brought me instant depression.
                Something is fundamentally wrong with out society where designers make those kind of things in those fabrics with those price tags. the whole outfit is just repulsive to me. And it has nothing to do with the brand, but just the very idea that people want to look and dress like that and spend thousands to do so........

                As I told someone of Facebook yesterday, If I'm going to subvert society by the way i dress, I want to do it by being a Dandy at a backyard Barbecue...........If i am going to look ridiculous, it must be that that i had put a great deal of unnecessary effort in the way I project myself to the world..................not the other way around.
                Last edited by zamb; 05-14-2018, 06:17 PM.
                “You know,” he says, with a resilient smile, “it is a hard world for poets.”
                .................................................. .......................


                Zam Barrett Spring 2017 Now in stock

                Comment

                • Faust
                  kitsch killer
                  • Sep 2006
                  • 37852

                  #23
                  Holy crap. I mean literally, crap...
                  Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                  StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                  Comment

                  • julian_doe
                    Senior Member
                    • Mar 2013
                    • 339

                    #24
                    I couldn't agree more, Zam and Faust.

                    This is incredibly depressing. However, this small artisanal niche in the varied world of garments is still alive, and it is up to us to continue to support it's continuity.

                    Comment

                    • Nickefuge
                      Senior Member
                      • Nov 2014
                      • 860

                      #25
                      Originally posted by julian_doe View Post
                      Michele seems to love misspelling Gucci just as much as every knock off I have ever seen. There are people that buy fake Gucci because of the acclaim which society lends to the brand (colors/symbols/emblems).
                      This is a tricky one. As a graphic designer I do like fucking with corporate symbols, so I am kinda biased. BUT let me say that, at least here in Germany, there are many people buying fake luxury garments on their holiday in Turkey, not because they couldn’t afford the real deal, but because they are cheap. They’d mindlessly spend 200+ euros on getting drunk on diluted beer at the Oktoberfest. So I wouldn’t say it’s necessarily a poor thing – in his op-ed Faust highlighted the importance of the shirt being authentic as well.

                      Link to shitty fit with garbage jacket
                      That’s just sad.

                      There is also a big difference between the jacket I shared above, and a boiled polyester blazer by CDG. The execution of the material is certainly mediocre as Michele/Demma uses it, and spectacularly used by the latter.

                      I have a Polyamide DRKSHDW blazer which is light, water resistant, and beautifully crafted that I have been wearing in the wet/gross state of Florida, and have enjoyed endlessly.
                      I was rather referring to garments that will be washed regularly, like e.g. poly pod shorts, synthetic/cotton t-shirts etc. – outerwear or tailoring is not as bad, of course.
                      "The only rule is don't be boring and dress cute wherever you go. Life is too short to blend in."
                      -Paris Hilton

                      Comment

                      • Faust
                        kitsch killer
                        • Sep 2006
                        • 37852

                        #26
                        By the way, I am pretty fucking tired of the likes of Vice and Dazed ripping off my articles. It's at least the second time I know of.

                        Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                        StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                        Comment

                        • SafetyKat
                          Senior Member
                          • Aug 2014
                          • 169

                          #27
                          Originally posted by Faust View Post
                          By the way, I am pretty fucking tired of the likes of Vice and Dazed ripping off my articles. It's at least the second time I know of.

                          https://garage.vice.com/en_us/articl...ion-in-fashion
                          The very least they could do is throw you a fucking backlink. Luckly, the author created a few degrees of separation talking about Vetements instead, TRACKS COVERED!

                          Ever since vetements started their workwear riffs (The DHL tees, the security guard rain jacket etc) I was surprised that there wasn't one major media outlet calling out class appropriation instead of praising it for its authenticity or "elevating the hoodie". Even at FIT, where a large portion of speaking events and lectures are focused on these kinds of sociological topics, not one mention. It makes me wonder as to what actually defines the line between authentic reference and ironic exploitation within fashion.

                          Comment

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