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Ann Demeulemeester S/S19 Men’s – Paris

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  • Ahimsa
    Vegan Police
    • Sep 2011
    • 1879

    Ann Demeulemeester S/S19 Men’s – Paris

    StyleZeitgeist Magazine | Store
  • Faust
    kitsch killer
    • Sep 2006
    • 37852

    #2
    Women's clothes for men. Worst of season.
    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

    StyleZeitgeist Magazine

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    • Mattiassa
      Member
      • Dec 2014
      • 68

      #3
      Originally posted by Faust View Post
      Women's clothes for men. Worst of season.
      Does that scare you?

      Comment

      • akkeri
        Junior Member
        • Jul 2012
        • 29

        #4
        Originally posted by Faust View Post
        Women's clothes for men. Worst of season.
        I'm really surprised you had that reaction, Faust. I loved the resurrected archive pieces and thought Sebastian's new ideas were wonderful, too.

        I'm interested to hear a bit more elaboration from you. I know you wouldn't diss Ann without really believing it.

        Comment

        • Faust
          kitsch killer
          • Sep 2006
          • 37852

          #5
          Originally posted by akkeri View Post
          I'm really surprised you had that reaction, Faust. I loved the resurrected archive pieces and thought Sebastian's new ideas were wonderful, too.

          I'm interested to hear a bit more elaboration from you. I know you wouldn't diss Ann without really believing it.
          You surely will get it today.
          Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

          StyleZeitgeist Magazine

          Comment

          • Faust
            kitsch killer
            • Sep 2006
            • 37852

            #6
            Originally posted by Mattiassa View Post
            Does that scare you?
            Yes, I'm shaking in my combat boots.
            Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

            StyleZeitgeist Magazine

            Comment

            • Bson
              Senior Member
              • May 2013
              • 189

              #7
              Originally posted by Faust View Post
              Women's clothes for men. Worst of season.
              Oh no! I actually thought this might be his best collection... The layering and details on the pieces were really ingenious, fresh, and beautiful. I also loved seeing a new take and revival on some archival pieces, especially the shirts with ties and the shorts. In regards to the feminine criticism, I see most of the collection as clearly clothes for men. Also, I think it's fine that he mixes in some women's Pre-Fall pieces with the men's clothing on the male models. Why not? It makes some of the looks more dynamic and interesting regardless of whether men end up actually buying the pieces themselves. In the past few years, some of those items from the runway haven't even been sold as men's pieces. Ann has plenty of items from old collections worn by men that were questionably feminine or actually for the women's collections, so I don't think it's totally fair to draw the distinction between the two designers on that front alone. He's doing it on a heightened level that I think naturally relates to a change in the broader view of men today, and he's also creating through the eyes of a gay man with his own experiences. (You should see his own collections before working at Margiela...! Haha.) This still feels very "Demeulemeester" to me, unlike maybe the first few seasons after she left.

              Comment

              • negroygris
                Senior Member
                • Aug 2013
                • 270

                #8
                I think I might have to agree with Faust, I have been collecting Ann D for many years and I wouldn't buy much from this Collection. Maybe a few pieces in this collection interest me like the straw hat and the napoleon beige jacket, but the rest of the collection seems to be an Ann D S/S 19 womenswear collection. Perhaps Meunier is going to make the womenswear collection more masculine and this one is intended to be feminine. Again, I still think it is in the romantic realm that Ann D is known for, but ask yourself would you wear the lace gloves and sheers blouses everyday? All in all, this collection is good but it is not the best this season.
                We hope that people will begin to see beyond the superficial surface of things and understand that there is far more to a design than just the way it looks on the outside.

                -GEOFFREY B. SMALL

                Comment

                • Faust
                  kitsch killer
                  • Sep 2006
                  • 37852

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Bson View Post
                  Oh no! I actually thought this might be his best collection... The layering and details on the pieces were really ingenious, fresh, and beautiful. I also loved seeing a new take and revival on some archival pieces, especially the shirts with ties and the shorts. In regards to the feminine criticism, I see most of the collection as clearly clothes for men. Also, I think it's fine that he mixes in some women's Pre-Fall pieces with the men's clothing on the male models. Why not? It makes some of the looks more dynamic and interesting regardless of whether men end up actually buying the pieces themselves. In the past few years, some of those items from the runway haven't even been sold as men's pieces. Ann has plenty of items from old collections worn by men that were questionably feminine or actually for the women's collections, so I don't think it's totally fair to draw the distinction between the two designers on that front alone. He's doing it on a heightened level that I think naturally relates to a change in the broader view of men today, and he's also creating through the eyes of a gay man with his own experiences. (You should see his own collections before working at Margiela...! Haha.) This still feels very "Demeulemeester" to me, unlike maybe the first few seasons after she left.
                  This is what I wrote re: what Demeulemeester did and what Meunier is doing:

                  "Things went from bad to worse on Thursday at Ann Demeulemeester, where we were treated to collection by Sebastien Meuneir so effete that it made your very skin turn pink. Flowy, flouncy, frilly – it was an emasculating, embarrassing mess. Let’s get one thing straight – while Ann Demeulemeester herself gravitated towards sensitive, romantic men that were not afraid to show their feelings – her men, and most definitely her customers, remained decidedly masculine. Who this collection was aimed at is beyond me."


                  Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                  StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                  Comment

                  • Ahimsa
                    Vegan Police
                    • Sep 2011
                    • 1879

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Bson View Post
                    Oh no! I actually thought this might be his best collection... The layering and details on the pieces were really ingenious, fresh, and beautiful. I also loved seeing a new take and revival on some archival pieces, especially the shirts with ties and the shorts. In regards to the feminine criticism, I see most of the collection as clearly clothes for men. Also, I think it's fine that he mixes in some women's Pre-Fall pieces with the men's clothing on the male models. Why not? It makes some of the looks more dynamic and interesting regardless of whether men end up actually buying the pieces themselves. In the past few years, some of those items from the runway haven't even been sold as men's pieces. Ann has plenty of items from old collections worn by men that were questionably feminine or actually for the women's collections, so I don't think it's totally fair to draw the distinction between the two designers on that front alone. He's doing it on a heightened level that I think naturally relates to a change in the broader view of men today, and he's also creating through the eyes of a gay man with his own experiences. (You should see his own collections before working at Margiela...! Haha.) This still feels very "Demeulemeester" to me, unlike maybe the first few seasons after she left.
                    I don't think this is a valid point. A great deal of creative directors are gay men, and they seem to manage to keep a balance. A lot of modern media is actually pretty offensive to gay culture, and LGBTQ+ culture at large, because it neatly categorizes them into specific cliches. I personally, wear a great deal of women's clothing, and I somehow manage not to look like a typical transvestite/drag queen. (I wear 8cm heels just about everyday and I vogue.) This collection doesn't give much leniency to those of us who like to mix and max and create our persona, this stuff is pretty much cosplay at this point.
                    Last edited by Ahimsa; 06-29-2018, 10:43 AM.
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                    Comment

                    • Bson
                      Senior Member
                      • May 2013
                      • 189

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Ahimsa View Post
                      I don't think this is a valid point. A great deal of creative directors are gay men, and they seem to manage to keep a balance. A lot of modern media is actually pretty offensive to gay culture, and LGBTQ+ culture at large, because it neatly categorizes them into specific cliches. I personally, wear a great deal of women's clothing, and I somehow manage not to look like a typical transvestite/drag queen. (I wear 8cm heels just about everyday and I vogue.) This collection doesn't give much leniency to those of us who like to mix and max and create our persona, this stuff is pretty much cosplay at this point.
                      I completely agree with your assertion regarding media being offensive to gay culture (that’s a whole other topic!), but I still do think there will be some differences to how menswear is presented between AD and SM specifically in regards to their backgrounds. I don’t believe his new AD man is created in a vacuum that only relates to her past work, and it shouldn’t be; that would be inauthentic. This is the same of anyone with differing experiences in creating for one or the other gender. I think Rick’s sexuality greatly influences his designs as well.
                      In regards to what is masculine, people like to define things as one or the other. To me, lace gloves are more masculine than a Rick high heel. Faust, I did read your article before I wrote my first response, and I don’t think it’s fair to claim that those who remain “decidedly masculine” must fit into the personal narrative of your own tastes. I think it’s more productive to talk about certain looks or pieces and how you interpret them in a broader view of the menswear that you are used to from the brand’s past rather than dismiss everything with a broad stroak. I do understand that a quick review of the many days that you have spent at the shows does call for broad stroaks, but it’s nice to have this forum to elaborate. I do respect all of your opinions, and the conversation is interesting!

                      Comment

                      • Faust
                        kitsch killer
                        • Sep 2006
                        • 37852

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Bson View Post
                        Faust, I did read your article before I wrote my first response, and I don’t think it’s fair to claim that those who remain “decidedly masculine” must fit into the personal narrative of your own tastes. I think it’s more productive to talk about certain looks or pieces and how you interpret them in a broader view of the menswear that you are used to from the brand’s past rather than dismiss everything with a broad stroak. I do understand that a quick review of the many days that you have spent at the shows does call for broad stroaks, but it’s nice to have this forum to elaborate. I do respect all of your opinions, and the conversation is interesting!
                        I mean, in the ideal world I would also like for everyone to define what masculinity (and femininity) mean for themselves. But we do live in the world where society has codified certain modes of dress for the past three hundred years. Perhaps these notions will go away at some point and we will go back to heels, silk stockings, and lacy collars, or perhaps new aesthetic codes will arise.

                        Indeed, the article called for broad strokes, but in this case actually my aversion was quite broad. This is the first time in 10 years I did not bother going into the showroom. I shocked myself, actually, and it was a very emotional decision. But aside from look one, I just don't see what in there warrants examination. Let me deflect to you, then - by all means.

                        I will add that though perhaps it is fair of you to say that bringing personal taste for a critic is invalid, while bringing personal taste for a designer is completely valid, but I am not speaking for myself only. I imagine an Ann Demeulemeester man, and I don't see him buying this. AD has a quintessential cult brand dilemma - take a new direction and you will for sure alienate old clientele, but will you bring a new one? Perhaps yes, perhaps no. I mean, Gucci puts flouncy shit on the runway, too, but AD is not Gucci. It's not a brand that can sell 100,000 branded hoodies a season.
                        Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                        StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                        Comment

                        • Faust
                          kitsch killer
                          • Sep 2006
                          • 37852

                          #13
                          Actually, upon reflection, I'll go further. Let's say you are aright and everyone decides for themselves what's masculine or not. Then take the vast majority of the Ann D customer and let them define that, and good luck selling this flounce.
                          Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                          StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                          Comment

                          • Ahimsa
                            Vegan Police
                            • Sep 2011
                            • 1879

                            #14
                            StyleZeitgeist Magazine | Store

                            Comment

                            • Ahimsa
                              Vegan Police
                              • Sep 2011
                              • 1879

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Bson View Post
                              I don’t believe his new AD man is created in a vacuum that only relates to her past work, and it shouldn’t be; that would be inauthentic. This is the same of anyone with differing experiences in creating for one or the other gender. I think Rick’s sexuality greatly influences his designs as well.
                              In regards to what is masculine, people like to define things as one or the other. To me, lace gloves are more masculine than a Rick high heel. Faust, I did read your article before I wrote my first response, and I don’t think it’s fair to claim that those who remain “decidedly masculine” must fit into the personal narrative of your own tastes. I think it’s more productive to talk about certain looks or pieces and how you interpret them in a broader view of the menswear that you are used to from the brand’s past rather than dismiss everything with a broad stroak.
                              One of the issues here is that his last women's collection, F/W, was basically just a bunch of Ann archive pieces remade and thrown down the runway. So from my viewpoint, he's all over the place. I actually really enjoyed his SS16 collection he did with harnesses and the lingerie with la fille d'o, as to me it felt more like his direction but still retaining some Ann'ness (like with the porcupine quills as opposed to feathers) but somehow he did a complete pivot and has been doing funeral attire. I know it got some backlash here, but it was a much better homage to her work than say Demna's Balenciaga or Abloh's LV. This had a case of the Junya conundrum, where the men's and women's didn't make much sense on their spectrums when put side by side, but now they're basically the same thing in the worst way possible. As Faust mentioned, this will alienate his male customer, and from what we can gleam from how Julius has been doing after they did the same, I would say it's not a good choice by any means since he doesn't have the brand following purely by name as the aforementioned creative directors.
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