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Thread: Who Makes What for Whom

  1. #121

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    does anyone know who makes BBS boots? its not augusta they just did one season so don't say augusta :)
    dying and coming back gives you considerable perspective

  2. #122

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    ^ I don´t know but is it conformed that Augusta really did the boots ONE season? If so, it must have been SS10 then!?

  3. #123

    Default Olmar and Mirta

    Quote Originally Posted by JACK TORRANCE View Post
    In the past daysThere has been a huge earthquake where olmar & mirta is located,here in Italy,does anybody know if it's still operating??
    yes it is . . . it was only 'slightly' affected.

  4. #124

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    I think that the "Made in Italy" is a "concept" which includes, (in addition to construction ), a taste, a tradition, and a manufacturing who were born and developed in Italy.

    I think that fashion and costumes are not just "who" and "how" is sewn a dress: these are things for the tailors.

    But the tailors are not fashion designers: a dress, a look, is not have a set of cutting and stitching, but is an idea, an emotion, a taste, a feeling that together give life to fashion.
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  5. #125

    Default A word about tailors and 'made in italy'

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    A word about tailors and 'made in italy'


    Sorry, but I think you need to develop a little more respect for "tailors."

    Because quite simply, without them a "designer" doesn't exist. You can draw all the pictures in the world you want- and download, copy, cut and paste them any way you like, like a "Fashion DJ"...but go ahead and wear your paper fantasies in the streets of Milan or Tim Buk Tu, my friend. And be sure to post it up in the WTF or WAYWT columns for us to have a look at too. And a laugh.

    To say, "but the tailors are not fashion designers" is completely false, and represents both a lack of knowledge about the subject and what is wrong with fashion today. The two greatest fashion designers of all time, I repeat all time, are Charles Frederick Worth, and Cristobal Balenciaga. And both of them were tailors first.

    You need to research them a little.

    A designer is only as good as what he/she can make. Or what the "tailors" behind he/she are capable of making. And that depends upon what is in their head, what they know, and what they can do with what they know. In the words of Pablo Picasso, "an artist is only as good as what he knows." Generally, our medium as designers is the clothes or the shoes we design, have built, and sell to our customers. The "tailors" and the "cobblers" are what make the whole thing possible. A few of us are our own tailors (I for example chose to become a tailor in order to be able to have 100 percent artistic control over my design work), others work with other tailors, it all depends upon their circumstances and their dedication, discipline and willpower towards their work. But in the end, collections are only as good as the tailors who worked on them. And anyone who belittles the role and contribution of the "tailor" in this whole game, needs to learn some things.

    I must laugh when I read a certain thread littered with comments about two well-respected designer's products looking like the same article, and unknowing SZ members trying to figure out and theorize what is going on. Well I happen to know what is going on. It just so happens that the 2 designers do not make their product. Someone else does. And that someone else is very, very good and is working for both designers and basically making the same thing for both. I will not say whether it involves a "tailor" or a "cobbler" nor will I mention any names of course. The point is: production dictates design, no matter how great a fu__ing 'genius' you may be considered as a designer. Historically, you can see that with many licensed designer collections, a designer's collection is beautiful or not so beautiful depending upon when and with which producer the collection was being handled by.

    This is precisely the problem in Italy today. "Made in Italy" today in 99% of the cases is a big lie. Nothing is made in Italy anymore. You don't believe me? Ask the tens of millions of disoccupati, laid-off factory workers from our industry who are sitting at home now all over the country. North and South. This BS that "Made in Italy" is some God-given concept that does not depend upon the true commitment of designers, industry leaders and government to invest in the people of Italy, in the "tailors" of the future and compete with the rest of the world on a product to product basis centered on quality, value, workmanship, materials and design - is what is ruining the concept in the eyes of the world.

    A Fiat cincquecento "designed in Italy" but produced in Poland is a lie. It is not made in Italy. Neither is any one of 100 major Italian designer and luxury clothing brand names that produce 90 percent of their product in China, Turkey or Bangladesh, and then sew the labels on somewhere in Tuscany stamped "Made in Italy." It's BS. And more and more of the world market knows it. As a result, they are buying less of it. And all of the biggest Italian companies that are pursuing this approach are firing people en masse. Right here in the Veneto, the 75-year old eyewear giant Safilo SpA is cutting 1,000 people next week due to reductions in major brands like Armani in worldwide sales demand. Armani sunglasses represents a billion dollars a year to the Italian economy. And it's going down and moving its production out to China. The repercussions for the Italian economy and the Italian people are and continue to be devastating as a result of our industry's leadership and popular culture to understand how truly important the people who do the real work to make beautiful things a reality truly are.

    Real "Made in Italy" is Ferrari. Or one of a few designers, people and companies discussed here on SZ, who are working 100% in Italy and building something worthy of a place in the most competitive business and market in the world. But that's a very,very few. At Ferrari, every car is built by Italians in Italy at Modena, by arguably the best automobile mechanics on the planet. And there, sales are up. Way up from 4 years ago. You never heard the legendary founder Enzo Ferrari or the current chairman Luca de Montezemolo, ever talk-down about a mere "mechanic" who worked on building or developing a Ferrari. And you would never hear anyone who is doing serious design work in our field say the same about "tailors." Even Yohji and Rick prefer to call themselves "dressmakers" instead of designers, because they know where the good stuff comes from. Indeed, great tailors are very, very rare today. And that's Italy's big problem.

    Where do you think "a taste, a tradition, and a manufacturing who were born and developed in Italy" that you talk about all came from in the first place?

    45 years ago, Italy was full of great tailors that drove the industry to the top of the world market, now she has barely any left, and her new generation thinks like you do now...that "tailors" are unimportant. Well guess what, they're very important, and Italy is going down the tubes today because of it. The real "Made in Italy" used to bring in so much money and jobs into the country, that designers from all over the world came here like me, to make their collections, and the textile and fashion industry alone generated so much to the economy that it paid for the entire oil and energy import demands of the Italian nation. Today instead, they are only one more industry adding to the spiraling unemployment costs and the staggering national debt that places her alongside Spain and Greece, and threatens her very republic, freedom and democratic sovreignty in Europe.

    Failure to respect and understand the importance, and the true artistic merit of great tailors in fashion and design, is failure to understand what this medium and this business is really all about. I suggest you do a little more research and a little more homework on the subject.

    And in the meantime, treat tailors with a little more respect on SZ.

    Some of them, may take it personally.

    Thank you for your kind attention and consideration to this matter.

    Best wishes,

    Geoffrey B. Small


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  6. #126

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    Geoffrey, once again thank you for the thoughtful post. I/we appreciate it when you take the time to contribute in such a worthwhile manner. You make excellent points and give us all something to think about.

    I do think the debate about who ripped off whom is a legitimate curiosity when you've not been given the chance to peek behind the curtain though, so to speak. I guess in the instance of the 2 designers discussed above, neither one ripped off anyone. Maybe they both just share a fondness for a particular type of boot :-)
    Last edited by cjbreed; 06-08-2012 at 05:43 PM.
    dying and coming back gives you considerable perspective

  7. #127

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffrey B. Small View Post
    Real "Made in Italy" is Ferrari. ... At Ferrari, every car is built by Italians in Italy at Modena, by arguably the best automobile mechanics on the planet. And there, sales are up. Way up from 4 years ago.
    This may have more to do with the growing income distribution and gutting of the working class than the quality of true "made in Italy." I don't think $400,000 cars are necessarily a good yardstick here. Even if I don't completely agree, fantastic points. Thank you.
    Hobo: We all dress up. We all put on our armour before we walk out the door, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that we’re trying to be someone else.

  8. #128
    kitsch killer Faust's Avatar
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    Thank you Geoffrey for putting things into perspective, yet again.
    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

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  9. #129

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffrey B. Small View Post
    .


    A word about tailors and 'made in italy'


    Sorry, but I think you need to develop a little more respect for "tailors."
    ..............
    Dear Geoffrey , nice to meet you and thanks for your answer.
    I think i was, in part, misunderstood.
    I dont mean that are better designers or tailors.
    In general, i mean this: there are more practical work and there are more creative work. The practicality and creativity are not mutually exclusive, but usually those with a practical mind/soul is focused on practical things, which is creative is focused on creating.
    This is usually an instinctual mechanism, that improves with time, experience, knowledge...etc..
    There are also exceptions, ( very rare) in which creativity and practicality develop "at the best" and find a harmonious balance.
    So, (please read this over simplification), the tailor has a more practical nature, the designers has a more creative nature.
    And off course, if a tailor is also creative, and a designer is also practical, there are advantages to both.And off course that the designers and tailors must work together is indispensable to each other.
    What i mean is that (excluding a few exceptions) when we see a set of clothes worn by someone, worn in a runway or a simple fitting, this set / combination is something that goes beyond/over the method of construction of the clothes , stitching, fabrics and shapes.
    This set/comination is a representation of a idea, a taste, a feeling that start to seams and ends in the eye makeup.
    This set/combination is off course the fruit of experience, knowledge, talent of the person who gives birth... and the people that are able to do this and do it extremely well : they are called masters, artists, geniuses, etc.
    etc.. .

    For this reason, i think it's important the focus on the idea, and not on "how" it is done to realize it (which is still an important thing).
    When we look Guernica, we do not think the painting technique, the type of fabric and how it was built, the type of brush that Picasso has used and what kind of bristles it had (these things are important, but secondary) or when we look at and drive a Ferrari, we're not imagine the clever work of the mechanics that have assembled it.

    About Italy and "made in Italy" i agree with you for : wrong finance policies of the italian companies, and the loss of many genius worker and artisans, and creative workers who during these years have made possible the " made in Italy".
    I disagree when you say that the Ferrari is is the only thing left " made in italy". There are many realities, both in fashion and in other work areas, even small or medium-sized who are actually still do everything "made in italy" .

    Thanks
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  10. #130

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    Quote Originally Posted by cjbreed View Post
    does anyone know who makes BBS boots? its not augusta they just did one season so don't say augusta :)
    Quote Originally Posted by BBSCCP View Post
    ^ I don´t know but is it conformed that Augusta really did the boots ONE season? If so, it must have been SS10 then!?
    I know they used Augusta boots for one of the first presentations in Paris. Whether Augusta actually made boots for them, I can't recall..

    As for who makes the footwear now, they refer to it as "in house", which as mentioned is likely to mean that they are made by some producer according to their specs.
    "AVANT GUARDE HIGHEST FASHION. NOW NOW this is it people, these are the brands no one fucking knows and people are like WTF. they do everything by hand in their freaking secret basement and shit."

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  11. #131

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    "Made in Italy" can mean that the garment is actually made in Asia but is sent back to Italy to have the buttons attached. We are being scammed daily and in every way possible by those who want our money.

  12. #132

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    Quote Originally Posted by byhand View Post
    "Made in Italy" can mean that the garment is actually made in Asia but is sent back to Italy to have the buttons attached. We are being scammed daily and in every way possible by those who want our money.
    Perfect !!! So we stop spending a lot of money to buy CCP, MA +, Rick, Ann .. We go down the street and go to the market in a stand of chinese shopkeepers, and let us make our wardrobe ..
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  13. #133

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    Find a good tailor. You can have made exactly what you want with the exact fabric you want. Not all of us have time for such things. Many of the labels popular here do their own fabric development, so these fabrics and treatments are usually not available to the general retail shopper looking for fabric. The design details are also often techniques not practiced by general tailors, so we pay for that.

    Many of the big brands marketed and sold on a large scale that have a price premium partly due to the "made in Italy" cache are scamming their customers.

  14. #134

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    Quote Originally Posted by Faust View Post
    Bump. Good read for everyone. Not sure what the new additions are, except that Staff will make Viktor & Rolf, now that Diesel bought them.
    Isn't D squared also in Staff?? I saw them in Staff's sample sale several times. pls somebody confrim it.

  15. #135
    kitsch killer Faust's Avatar
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    Confirmed
    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

    StyleZeitgeist Magazine

  16. #136

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    Quote Originally Posted by fashiondisaster View Post
    Perfect !!! So we stop spending a lot of money to buy CCP, MA +, Rick, Ann .. We go down the street and go to the market in a stand of chinese shopkeepers, and let us make our wardrobe ..
    ...except that ccp, m.a+ and RO are not what he is referring to
    "AVANT GUARDE HIGHEST FASHION. NOW NOW this is it people, these are the brands no one fucking knows and people are like WTF. they do everything by hand in their freaking secret basement and shit."

    STYLEZEITGEIST MAGAZINE | BLOG

  17. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by lowrey View Post
    ...except that ccp, m.a+ and RO are not what he is referring to
    I know very well !!! what I wrote above was something provocative.
    I understand that "Made in Italy" made ​​in Asia is related to some major brands .. But some of these, and other "smallest" .. they really "made ​​in Italy" and does not seem correct to generalize.
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  18. #138

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    Quote Originally Posted by byhand View Post
    "Made in Italy" can mean that the garment is actually made in Asia but is sent back to Italy to have the buttons attached. We are being scammed daily and in every way possible by those who want our money.
    It's not true anymore.

    Italian law has been changed a few years ago (in 2010 IIRC) in order to restrain abusive "Made in Italy" designations.

    For instance some of the Staff International garments now have a "made in Romania" tag (noticed it on the cheapest Margiela pants).

    http://www.italymag.co.uk/italy/busi...-law-tightened

  19. #139
    kitsch killer Faust's Avatar
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    So, that law did pass. That's good. Weren't they shooting for a separate "Entirely Made in Italy" label too? Also, that article is vague. I don't know what "primarily" means in this case. It used to be 10% of manufacturing process had to be done in Italy.
    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

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  20. #140

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    The "100% made in Italy" label is a certification delivered by a conglomerate of italian manufacturers (the Istituto per la Tutela dei Produttori Italiani), but it has nothing to do with the italian law. I dont know the specifics, but I have never seen a label "100% made in Italy". Maybe on Zegna or Brioni garments ?

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