Maison Martin Margiela

[Faust]

Re: Maison Martin Margiela

I agree. NDF, have you examined the stuff in stores? Five years ago I thought that Margiela fizzled out, but now he's going strong, especially the womenswear.

[deuxmille]

Re: Maison Martin Margiela



Seriously. Margiela stores always have superb pieces. I wasn't big on him before either, but I've really come to appreciate what they do.

I just read NDF's comment and I can't disagree more. I think mmm is great because they don't take themselves so seriously all the time and aren't afraid of progressing. Even with quirky concepts it rarely looks tacky. I don't understand how you can hate on a garment because it's not practical to wear either, it's like hating on a painting because it's too big to fit in an apartment.

Comparing mmm to ccp is a little weird too ):

[deuxmille]

Re: Maison Martin Margiela



Again I can't say I understand. What do you mean by the human body can't wear anything? There's some things that are probably meant to be taken outside of a "would it work in my wardrobe" context either because of fit or durability or whatever. What about the Chalayan animatronics dresses and things like that?

I think they do take themselves seriously, but the output doesn't have to be and I think they achieve a pretty good balance in that regard. The lab coats are pretty funny too IMO and I know people who used to work there that still wear them in their current work, so I think they work on different levels.

[Avantster]

Re: Maison Martin Margiela



I suspect what ndf means is that clothing has an inherent relationship with the human body, while a work of art does not have to.

Personally I've found most of his womenswear that I've seen on the racks to be consistently interesting, quirky, and wearable, in recent years.

And for the artisanal line, I think it has a different purpose. 'Show' pieces, if you will. Things to make us think. Perhaps to make us reconsider things we once thought were set in stone..

[Faust]

Re: Maison Martin Margiela

I know what you are saying, NDF. That's how I feel about Rei Kawakubo. Except that Margiela has always done that, so even if you got tired of it... well, then it's not your thing, and it's cool. I don't know - there are definitely lots of basic things from him, but that is the purpose, too. Then there are all these quirky things, and what I love about those is that they are so SUBTLE that you can absolutely tell that someone sat down and THOUGHT about these things - it just comes across that way, and there is something good in that. I have to say that I have stopped judging Margiela by pictures from the runways and showroom presentations - they just don't deliver the way his garments do.

[laika]

Re: Maison Martin Margiela

[quote user="deuxmille"]

Seriously. Margiela stores always have superb pieces. I wasn't big on him before either, but I've really come to appreciate what they do.

I just read NDF's comment and I can't disagree more. I think mmm is great because they don't take themselves so seriously all the time and aren't afraid of progressing. Even with quirky concepts it rarely looks tacky. I don't understand how you can hate on a garment because it's not practical to wear either, it's like hating on a painting because it's too big to fit in an apartment.

Comparing mmm to ccp is a little weird too ):

[/quote]

I pretty much agree with what you are saying here, except (at the risk of introducing yet another CCP-centric discussion) I do think it makes sense to compare the two designers. Poell is very indebted to what Margiela pioneered in the 90's, although I don't think he even comes close to MMM in terms of creative innovation.

[laika]

Re: Maison Martin Margiela



[quote user="Faust"]Except that Margiela has always done that, so even if you got tired of it... well, then it's not your thing, and it's cool. I don't know - there are definitely lots of basic things from him, but that is the purpose, too. Then there are all these quirky things, and what I love about those is that they are so SUBTLE that you can absolutely tell that someone sat down and THOUGHT about these things - it just comes across that way, and there is something good in that.
[/quote]

I absolutely agree. What I like about MMM is that even the basic garments have some clever concept that makes them interesting, and that the concepts are almost always thoughtful, rather than gimmicky.

[Pinoy]

Re: Maison Martin Margiela



My thoughts on Margiela are that he runs the whole gamut from boring basics (tacky slogan tees, etc) to subtly quirky stuff (this season's tyvek shirts and tuxedo shirts with gold studs instead of buttons come to mind) to the over-the-top artisanal pieces. I've never discounted Margiela's genius, but I can see how others may see his work as being overpriced and watered down?? especially in comparison to his work in the 90s.

At risk of being burned on the stake by the staunch CCP supporters on this board, I've never thought of Margiela (even based on his current work) as being any less great than Poell. While Margiela's fabrics aren't as crazy awesome as Poell's, MMM's price point is also much lower. Design-wise, I think both have done an equally amazing job. As for the "unwearable" 010 artisanal pieces, couldn't the same be said about CCP's crazy pieces done with human hair? In any case, thank you Faust for perfectly summing up what I love most about Margiela, "There are all these quirky things, and what I love about those is that they are so SUBTLE that you can absolutely tell that someone sat down and THOUGHT about these things".

[deuxmille]

Re: Maison Martin Margiela

[quote user="laika"][quote user="deuxmille"]

Seriously. Margiela stores always have superb pieces. I wasn't big on him before either, but I've really come to appreciate what they do.

I just read NDF's comment and I can't disagree more. I think mmm is great because they don't take themselves so seriously all the time and aren't afraid of progressing. Even with quirky concepts it rarely looks tacky. I don't understand how you can hate on a garment because it's not practical to wear either, it's like hating on a painting because it's too big to fit in an apartment.

Comparing mmm to ccp is a little weird too ):

[/quote]

I pretty much agree with what you are saying here, except (at the risk of introducing yet another CCP-centric discussion) I do think it makes sense to compare the two designers. Poell is very indebted to what Margiela pioneered in the 90's, although I don't think he even comes close to MMM in terms of creative innovation.

[/quote]

It's too late, ccp has become the SZ benchmark to which everyone must be compared ):

Why do you think poell owes so much to mmm though (does everyone owe mmm?), I dont really see that much in their approach and even less in their vision.

[orphée]

Re: Maison Martin Margiela

Yes, giving thought to
it is precisely what he does, and does so well. When I was in the market for a winter
coat a few years ago (i.e. we're not even talking about Margiela's seminal
years), it was a long black woollen number that caught my eye. The texture, the
diagonal zips down the front. I was immediately taken. But what ultimately sold
me was the range of well-thought out features: extra long sleeves that could be
buttoned tightly over gloves and -- the most intriguing of all ? an extra flap
of material that folds out from the inside of the back and can be buttoned up
and under your legs and attached to the front to create what one might call a
nappy (of all things). If worn this way whilst biking (which was the
intention), the wind cannot get up and under the coat.
And if not worn ?nappied up? style, the extra flap is always there, hidden away
like a little secret. I believe few designers would put that much thought into
a coat.

[Faust]

Re: Maison Martin Margiela

[quote user="deuxmille"][quote user="laika"][quote user="deuxmille"]

Seriously. Margiela stores always have superb pieces. I wasn't big on him before either, but I've really come to appreciate what they do.

I just read NDF's comment and I can't disagree more. I think mmm is great because they don't take themselves so seriously all the time and aren't afraid of progressing. Even with quirky concepts it rarely looks tacky. I don't understand how you can hate on a garment because it's not practical to wear either, it's like hating on a painting because it's too big to fit in an apartment.

Comparing mmm to ccp is a little weird too ):

[/quote]

I pretty much agree with what you are saying here, except (at the risk of introducing yet another CCP-centric discussion) I do think it makes sense to compare the two designers. Poell is very indebted to what Margiela pioneered in the 90's, although I don't think he even comes close to MMM in terms of creative innovation.

[/quote]

It's too late, ccp has become the SZ benchmark to which everyone must be compared ):

Why do you think poell owes so much to mmm though (does everyone owe mmm?), I dont really see that much in their approach and even less in their vision.

[/quote]

See orphees post above for immediate response :-) Poell did a similar diaper coat last year. Well, not like MMM came up with it - Helmut Lang incorporated these things in his outerwear in the late 90s, and he probably didn't come up with that either.

I don't want to speak for Laika, but I would say that there are plenty of concepts Poell could've borrowed from Margiela, the biggest being the idea that the clothes should have staying power instead of being trendy - very anti-fashion. [Y] That's why you can see a certain obsessiveness from both in tinkering with the same garments.

[mass]

Re: Maison Martin Margiela

the diaper thing, which i'm assuming to be a fishtail--but in the case of the margiela coat folded inwards in the back?--is from military parkas; basically for soldiers to sit on so their asses don't get wet & cold.

[laika]

Re: Maison Martin Margiela

[quote user="deuxmille"]

It's too late, ccp has become the SZ benchmark to which everyone must be compared ):

Why do you think poell owes so much to mmm though (does everyone owe mmm?), I dont really see that much in their approach and even less in their vision.

[/quote]

I think a lot of what Poell does can be seen as an extension/expansion of Margiela's early and continuing interests. For example, exposing and elevating the inside of garments (deconstruction); pushing the limits of tailoring to new extremes; breathing new life into sartorial "corpses," by reworking them; and incorporating artisanal techniques into doing all of the above. They also share a conceptual fascination with decay and death as organic processes, as opposed to fashion's artificial cycle of glorifying whatever is newest and youngest (the "anti-fashion" that Faust mentioned). I say Poell owes this to Margiela, only because MMM (influenced in turn by CDG, etc.) was doing it already in the late 80's. Of course, there are lots of differences and nuances to be pointed out; and of course, CCP is a unique and independant creator in his own right who can't be reduced to any singular influence. But there is definitely a relationship of heritage here (as I see it), and that's why I cringe when I hear CCP being praised at the expense of Margiela. [71]

Anyway, I am off topic and you are right that comparing everything to CCP is tiresome. [:$] Would be interested to know why you find them so different though.

[zamb]

Re: Maison Martin Margiela



I dont like Margiela now like i used to, and i do believe that he is nowhere near as good as he once was, but that cannot discount his Genius. looking at his body of work, he is probably in the top five designers to have ever lived, because of his contribution to fashion. Margiela has influenced designers like Chalayan, theyskens, Poell, Myself and a whole unending list of designers.

the whole "anonymous" designer thing was perfected by him, so much so that the clothes does not bear his name, it was he who invented the whole segment of fashion called "semi-couture", one of the most innovative jackets i've ever seen as done by him. you can think he is watered down now, and righty so, but his body of work is nothing but exceptional

[xadam]

Re: Maison Martin Margiela

[quote user="laika"]

I think a lot of what Poell does can be seen as an extension/expansion of Margiela's early and continuing interests. For example, exposing and elevating the inside of garments (deconstruction); pushing the limits of tailoring to new extremes; breathing new life into sartorial "corpses," by reworking them; and incorporating artisanal techniques into doing all of the above. They also share a conceptual fascination with decay and death as organic processes, as opposed to fashion's artificial cycle of glorifying whatever is newest and youngest (the "anti-fashion" that Faust mentioned). I say Poell owes this to Margiela, only because MMM (influenced in turn by CDG, etc.) was doing it already in the late 80's. Of course, there are lots of differences and nuances to be pointed out; and of course, CCP is a unique and independant creator in his own right who can't be reduced to any singular influence. But there is definitely a relationship of heritage here (as I see it), and that's why I cringe when I hear CCP being praised at the expense of Margiela. [71]

Anyway, I am off topic and you are right that comparing everything to CCP is tiresome. [:$] Would be interested to know why you find them so different though.

[/quote]

i think you are ignoring the end result.