Carol Christian Poell

[therapysessions]

Re: Carol Christian Poell

[quote user="justine"]

Well, an average leather jacket costs around $1k, this really expensive cpp 10 times as much ; what's the ratio between an average car at $10k and a rolls?

Even his $5k jackets are so completely out of my range, a $10k looks at least as far from where I'm sitting to be truthful.

There's one thing I like though, is that he still goes out of his way to design things totally separated from what can be considered non-core concerns for a fashion design: 'wearability for the average person'(*) or price accessibility, and I think this is something great.

(*) I read somewhere that some Le Corbusier buildings was build for ideal man of 1m80...I guess he would be wearing something like the 'join'-jacket.

[/quote]

I think for the true CCP customer, that price isn't really "absurd" if you consider the rest of the line. It's just a high ticket item.

Wearability for the average person isn't usually on the minds of high end labels for the most part. That's usually a concern for the mid/mass market. The only thing that matters is if the piece is wearable to the brands specific customer/client, and if he/she would be willing to spend that much.

[ddohnggo]

Re: Carol Christian Poell


there is no doubt that the prices on carol's pieces are expensive and are sometimes ludicrous. however, he's built such a devout following that people will pay almost any price that he demands. i'm sure jude law or some other wealthy person will undoubtedly buy a $10k ccp leather jacket without batting an eyelash and as a result he'll keep on producing these pieces.

[justine]

Re: Carol Christian Poell



[quote user="ddohnggo"]and as a result he'll keep on producing these pieces.
[/quote]

Thankfully for myself, amateur of les belles choses.

[Chinorlz]

Re: Carol Christian Poell



Yeah, I'd love to see a photo of that leather jacket!

I agree with some of the comments above... not only does CCP already have incredibly high price tags, but the $10k piece in question is not even produced in large amounts. Reminds me of that paper/leather duffle from last season that was quite incredibly expensive and only 3 made if memory serves me right.

Others on here have mentioned the various Dior Homme pieces that hit this price range if not higher (the Lesage heinously beaded white leather jacket for instance...). It's artistic license I suppose. Poell makes one or two and people are bound to pick it up not only because avid Poell buyers have the money to do so (figure in the entire world... there MUST be 3 people that want to and can shell out that kind of money on a jacket) but because it's just a higher end piece on the Poell price scale. WithPoell's otherleather jackets in the $3-5k range and leather coats a couple thousand more, $10k for a piece that is presumably very intricate and difficult to make (and probably to pull off) suddenly becomes "reasonable".

I was told about an incredible jacket at the CCP showroom this season that required help to put on and take off. I'm betting this was the piece! With all the buzz about such an item, we're bound to see photos.

The regular suspects didn't pick this up as far as I know (Maxfield's, A, L'Eclaireur, The Library and Lazzari) so we'll once again rely on the Japanese sites for photos. My guess is that the few made of this jacket are on the tiny side to fit the Japanese consumers that will buy it.

I'm surprised by what Sato said about the jointed items. JoJo said the same thing but it's odd to hear it coming from a niche store such as Atelier that caters to a relatively precise body type. Jointed or not, knees and elbows are approximately in the same locations on most people in relation to the clothes they're wearing... but I suppose some differences in inches in height may result in the elbow being an inch off from the joint break or the knee being above the joint of the pants and thus it doesn't look right.

I would like to try out some of these jointed pieces... I think I fall into his target size range of 6 feet.

Therapysessions (Peter, your blog is cool. Props to building your brand!!!!!) is right. Poell CAN gear an entire collection for a specific size (although I wonder how the Japanese market's buy of this collection was given the smaller average stature of the Japanese compared to the average Anglo height) and height and it will still sell well. He's just taking his collection a tad bit more niche hahaha

All in all, it'll be fun and interesting to see this collection both in photos and when its on the racks. Poell never disappoints with his fabrics, treatments and ideas (wearable or not).

[Faust]

Re: Carol Christian Poell

I guess you guys have a point. The funny thing is, compared to womenswear, this is not so bad (relatively speaking, obviously). You should see what Chloe and the like charge for their shit, and it's obviously not that great. $450 for a belt is nothing special for Chloe, yet for us a $450 Poell or M.A. belt is an automatic "Whoa!" Obviously, it is still all ridiculous, but comparatively speaking, maybe not so much...

[osn19]

Re: Carol Christian Poell



I agree on the price of the jacket. It is expensive...

But can we judge a piece without even having seen it ? I would love to see the picture, so then I could tell if I want to spend 10k on that, or just stick to the gloved jacket that is half priced (but still 5 k whaou !).

One thing I remember in my personal history of relation with clothes :

3 years ago : spending 160$ for a pair of Diesel jean semt like a crazy thing to me, I fetished one pair that I bought during sales time at 90$...

Budget : around 100?

2 years ago : I discovered that I would only wear DH from head to toes, I didn't understand anything about CCP & Carpe, nor the range of price. And I felt so snobby not to wear Diesel anymore just like everybody...

Budget : around 1000-3000 ?

1 year ago : Bought my first pair of CCP boots and the leather overlocked jacket. Wanted something special, only for me.

Budget : around 5000?

6 months ago : Bought 2 new pairs of CCP boots.

Budget : + 2000 ?

Today : I don't even care about the manufactured industry products, which seem to lack so much in quality : DH, Cloak, Ann, etc... were my favourites (I spent a lot on that, and I kind of regret it now... would exchange my wardrobe for CCP, Carpe and Ro...), I don't care anymore... Because I have become dependant of the smell of the CCP leathers, and I am looking for a fix of his new jointed 2007 items. If the 10k jacket makes me crazy, I could go for it. Otherwise I already know I'm getting the gloved one.

I don't want to sound snobby, that was just a view on my personal, but maybe shared by others here, evolution of expenses on clothes. It is unreasonnable, but I fetish my few CCP items more than any other clothes

[laika]

Re: Carol Christian Poell



^Once you are in the realm of 5 and 10K leather jackets and 2k shoes, "quality" is beside the point.

Although I don't subscribe to the sentiment, it seems more honest and direct to say (as you did), "I want something special, only for me."

The question I have is, do you fetishize the specialness, the rareness, the obscurity; or the material garments themselves?

[Casius]

Re: Carol Christian Poell

I think the crazy thing about the jacket is not what material it's going to be made out of or the fit, but the amount per hour (essentially) Poell is charging his customer for a one-off piece. Being the excellent craftsmen he is, I'm sure it didn't take him a month to make 1 jacket, let alone be able to charge upwards of 10K for material/hourly work. Myself, I kind of scoff at that kind of attitude from a designer; The, "Well if I make it, you will buy it" kind of thing. I have looked to Poell's clothing mostly for it's craftsmenship, tailoring, materials, and yes, the overall aesthetic but a 10K jacket is going a little far.

I know we all haven't seen it yet but for me, this thing would have to be studded with diamonds, have ruby buttons, and come with a personal handshake from Poell himself for me to even think about 10K.

But I digress.....

...Just give me the rest of the F/W collection. :) For 10K, I can buy A LOT of his other clothes.

[Jorge Hache]

Re: Carol Christian Poell



Some pictures for the delight of all Poell fans

The famous blue/purple object dyed wraparound boots

Enjoy!

[Casius]

Re: Carol Christian Poell

lol Merz. I think you may be right that the jacket might be made for someone in particular and might not be 'sold' at retail at all. I know the Library does the custom order thing, so maybe someone asked for a crazy gloved leather jacket with attachable pants; A CCP leather glove jump suit!

:)

P.S. I just got lucky because Poell makes his sleeves long. haha

[Chinorlz]

Re: Carol Christian Poell

[67][quote user="Casius"]I think the crazy thing about the jacket is not what material it's going to be made out of or the fit, but the amount per hour (essentially) Poell is charging his customer for a one-off piece. Being the excellent craftsmen he is, I'm sure it didn't take him a month to make 1 jacket, let alone be able to charge upwards of 10K for material/hourly work. Myself, I kind of scoff at that kind of attitude from a designer; The, "Well if I make it, you will buy it" kind of thing. I have looked to Poell's clothing mostly for it's craftsmenship, tailoring, materials, and yes, the overall aesthetic but a 10K jacket is going a little far.

I know we all haven't seen it yet but for me, this thing would have to be studded with diamonds, have ruby buttons, and come with a personal handshake from Poell himself for me to even think about 10K.

But I digress.....

...Just give me the rest of the F/W collection. :) For 10K, I can buy A LOT of his other clothes.

[/quote]

I don't think th $10k price tag is unjustified. Poell item pricings have always been dependent on material/time costs. I've seen white cotton shirts differ in price by a LOT purely because of the type of fabric used.

I can definitely agree on the negative nature of an "I make it so you'll buy it" attitude from a designer but Poell seems to (or at least I'd like to believe) make things out of love for what he does. For a designer to make a couple items that end up costing the consumer (read: turn a reasonable profit) 5 figures isn't too outrageous especially put in the womenswear context that Faust did. My god... Chloe charges insane amounts.

We've got two people on here that seem to be capable of affording it if it can be found in their size and I'm sure there are no fewer than 50 Japanese that are salivating just at the thought of such a coveted piece and would drop the 6 million yen sight unseen on the item. They'll sell but not to you and me Cas haha. Ten K can indeed buy a TON of clothes or... can just be spent more conservatively. I often have to step back and tell myself that It's Just Clothes.

One won't die if they don't have a certain piece no matter what my gut instinct says (and never fails... it's constantly saying "get it!!! ahhhhhh, get it!!!). Considering I could get a little herd of French Bulldogs ([67]) for even the price of the glove leather jacket, you gotta think about what is and is not reasonable. I can furnish my new apartment with a $5k budget with a bit of key shopping on Craigslist and some personal handiwork... or I can get a jacket.

That being said, if when it hits stores I can truly afford it, I will try to get that glove leather jacket as my big purchase of the season... but only if I can afford it!

[Casius]

Re: Carol Christian Poell

A herd of frenchies, lol, now that would be sweet! [:D]

I do definitely agree about the material/time costs, this one just seems excessive. Although I may be a little naive on how much time it might truly take (not to mention it takes time from other projects), maybe Zamb can chime in a little bit more here.

But don't get me wrong here, I have the utmost respect on how someone chooses to spend thier money. I guess I've just never been one of those people that even if applicable, I wouldn't buy a Ferrari or a $15million house just because that isn't how I roll. That isn't to say I don't appreciate it all though. [:)]

Play on playas!

[Casius]

Re: Carol Christian Poell

[quote user="merz"]

[quote user="Casius"]Library does the custom order thing, so maybe someone asked for a crazy gloved leather jacket with attachable pants;
[/quote]

They do? I mean, i'd pay through the nose for something like that, yes. Chances are I'd own and wear that garment for the rest of my life, so its a good investment.

[/quote]

From my understanding, you can choose pieces of up to a few seasons past and get them made for you in your size. I am not sure if you can have him make something that was never produced, but if you ever wanted the duffel coat, or a pair of boots that you missed out on, contact the dudes at the Library and they should be able to help you out. (at a premium of course)

[laika]

Re: Carol Christian Poell

[quote user="Casius"]A herd of frenchies, lol, now that would be sweet! [:D]

I do definitely agree about the material/time costs, this one just seems excessive. Although I may be a little naive on how much time it might truly take (not to mention it takes time from other projects), maybe Zamb can chime in a little bit more here.

But don't get me wrong here, I have the utmost respect on how someone chooses to spend thier money. I guess I've just never been one of those people that even if applicable, I wouldn't buy a Ferrari or a $15million house just because that isn't how I roll. That isn't to say I don't appreciate it all though. [:)]

Play on playas!

[/quote]

You are a breath of fresh air. [51][51]

[zamb]

Re: Carol Christian Poell

[quote user="Casius"]A herd of frenchies, lol, now that would be sweet! [:D]

I do definitely agree about the material/time costs, this one just seems excessive. Although I may be a little naive on how much time it might truly take (not to mention it takes time from other projects), maybe Zamb can chime in a little bit more here.

But don't get me wrong here, I have the utmost respect on how someone chooses to spend thier money. I guess I've just never been one of those people that even if applicable, I wouldn't buy a Ferrari or a $15million house just because that isn't how I roll. That isn't to say I don't appreciate it all though. [:)]

Play on playas!

[/quote]

Well , Unless the leather he is using is tanned Human skin, or the skin of Some endangered animal (or Goldfishes sewn together by hand) I cannot see how he can justify the price through labour and materials..........

i personally can make a Tailored Jacket in one Day, day and half if i get lazy, (leather is easier because you don't need to treat the seams for fraying, although you have to be more careful as the stitching holes are permanent once made into the leather) so it depends on the Value thats placed on your service / hour, Ideas, design etc

From the standpoint of materials, (which im not sure what kind of skin it is) he needs about 5-6 skins , its highly unlikely that the fabrics are costing more than say $600-800 (and im being EXTREMELY generous here), so if labour is 1K (very generous again) and materials $800, we have at least 8K between the journey of the prouct from him to the stores to the customer...........

And dont ask me about designs and pattern cost, because you cannot (although some do) calulate those things into the cost of the actual garment, they are considered operating cost and must be absorbed into te general operational budget that is paid for thorough start-up Capital and ultimately money made from sales................

In the end, to each is own,

Anyone has the money and want it, Go for it, I know i wouldn't, (regarless of how rich i am/ would become) because as someone who has been poor for most of my life, and only just started making some real money only about 2yrs now, there is just somehing emotionally wrong about buying a JACKET for that kind of money (especially because i can make it myself)

But thank God , I also understand that there are really wealthy people for whom 10k is not a lot, and if they want to buy it, fine by me.

im just glad my friend Casius, who is an avid customer, will not be owning one[57]

I have a lot more to say regaring CCP (positive things that is, and insighful information about certain aspects of his work) but cant do it now.........

they don't pay me here at my dayjobto post on SZ[:'(][67]