Carpe Diem, Lmaltieri, Linea, etc.

[snafu]

[zamb]

magusen, has it occurred to you that the ideas stemming from the carpe collective are not all originating personally with one m. altieri? and that the rest of the people involved were not simply 'excellent craftsmen' or his 'pupils' as you put it, but active contributors both to the aesthetic of the line during its initial run and the subsequent continuing developments in their own work..?

..i mean, seriously.

My thoughts exactly..................
people always ask these questions as if design assistants and contributors to a design collective are just there to take orders and never make any creative contributions to the products found in a line..........

whenever a brand offers a broad range of productions from shoes, bags, clothing etc, the original creator will never have absolute knowledge or be the originator of all the ideas.................its just impossible

[Enaml]

To make such a statement that the work of Continues can single-handedly be attributed to Altieri is grossly underestimating the work of everyone else involved. It's not like they went on and started doing copycat works that are 100% derivative of Altieri's ultimate epiphany. That's not to discredit Altieri's innovation and vision, but he's certainly not a demigod.

1+1=3, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

[MoFiya]

I really don't wanna ruin this thread but as of now, I don't understand a thing about Carpe / Lmaltieri / Linea besides that the firstmentioned has some really nice boots to offer.

But as I was looking at your sales thread, jevna, I just don't get the concept or the purpose of these things. I wish you wrote more about the treatment / fit or whatever characterizes these things and makes them worth the price mark besides being 'exclusive' (feel free to cut the last part).

That being said, please keep in mind that I have not seen / handled any of the bespoke pieces IRL, so if the ingenuity is something to be experienced in person and not possible to articulate just ... send me a piece to provide me insight

I'ld appreciate an explanation - either as general or as focused on an individual piece.. TIA!

[toulouse]

Valid deduction. Altieri is a visionary and work of continues was realization of his musings. Sometimes he could not realize and needed assistance to manifest. Strict parameters were set and others worked within borders of framed set of guidelines.
+
Marvielab is purest of lines coming from continues house. Her vision. Her work. If you take time to look, her work is new. She throws your table out and brought her own also.

Jevna's last sales thread on Classifield, in mind especially the Lmaltieri 3D knitted scarf, to me proposes that Altieri is the only master of the Carpe diem family. What has other members really put new to the table?

[toulouse]

Amadei is not pupil. Authority of construction. Laurini is not pupil. His focus is his craft. All have gained greatly from Altieri's unique perspective. They also have their own ideals. I do not understand why Cecchetto is in your list.

I question, once again, the originality of other members of the Carpe diem family, Altieri's pupils, Amadei, Laurini, Cecchetto et al. I know they're all excellent craftsmen, but which elements of their designs are truly theirs and not Altieri generic? I thought Laurini avantgarded knitting, but the Lmaltieri 3D scarf and seismic sweater patterns pose doubt.

[toulouse]

Truth in this charmingly altruistic equation.

To make such a statement that the work of Continues can single-handedly be attributed to Altieri is grossly underestimating the work of everyone else involved. It's not like they went on and started doing copycat works that are 100% derivative of Altieri's ultimate epiphany. That's not to discredit Altieri's innovation and vision, but he's certainly not a demigod.

1+1=3, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

[toulouse]

Purpose is subterranean. Subtext is qualifying characteristic. Seek what is not seen. Hear what is not said.

I really don't wanna ruin this thread but as of now, I don't understand a thing about Carpe / Lmaltieri / Linea besides that the firstmentioned has some really nice boots to offer.

But as I was looking at your sales thread, jevna, I just don't get the concept or the purpose of these things. I wish you wrote more about the treatment / fit or whatever characterizes these things and makes them worth the price mark besides being 'exclusive' (feel free to cut the last part).

That being said, please keep in mind that I have not seen / handled any of the bespoke pieces IRL, so if the ingenuity is something to be experienced in person and not possible to articulate just ... send me a piece to provide me insight

I'ld appreciate an explanation - either as general or as focused on an individual piece.. TIA!

[Emel]

Amadei is not pupil. Authority of construction. Laurini is not pupil. His focus is his craft. All have gained greatly from Altieri's unique perspective. They also have their own ideals. I do not understand why Cecchetto is in your list.

Valid deduction. Altieri is a visionary and work of continues was realization of his musings. Sometimes he could not realize and needed assistance to manifest. Strict parameters were set and others worked within borders of framed set of guidelines.
+
Marvielab is purest of lines coming from continues house. Her vision. Her work. If you take time to look, her work is new. She throws your table out and brought her own also.

Truth in this charmingly altruistic equation.

Purpose is subterranean. Subtext is qualifying characteristic. Seek what is not seen. Hear what is not said.

James Ellroy just joined in on the discussion.

[MASUGNEN]

It's not like they went on and started doing copycat works that are 100% derivative of Altieri's ultimate epiphany.

To what percentage would you say they are Altieri derivative?

I have never proposed Amadei, Laurini et al. to be non-creative. I suggest them to be non-original. I am ready to withdraw my suggestion if anyone can show or convincingly describe the originality in design or ethos of Amadei, Laurini et al.

I gladly wear both m.a+ and LUC. They often provide great garments. That's not the issue. I will follow Toulouse's advice and check Mariavittoria Sargentini closer.

[zamb]

To what percentage would you say they are Altieri derivative?

I have never proposed Amadei, Laurini et al. to be non-creative. I suggest them to be non-original. I am ready to withdraw my suggestion if anyone can show or convincingly describe the originality in design or ethos of Amadei, Laurini et al.

I gladly wear both m.a+ and LUC. They often provide great garments. That's not the issue. I will follow Toulouse's advice and check Mariavittoria Sargentini closer.

Upon what premise do you suggest them to be Non-original?
how do you differentiate between the contributions they made to the original label while working there as opposed to the ideas of Atieri?

Couldn't it be psssible that the ideas found in Luca and Amadei's work that are similar to the original Carpe Diem label coming from them, and not form the original founder of the label?

[MASUGNEN]

Less likely than possible. Your case is weaker than mine. Carpe diem is Maurizio Altieri until otherwise proven.

I'm sure the Perugia atmosphere was superbly innovative those years and that Altieri gained by creative and not least technical exchanges with Amadei and Laurini. Crouka/Runner has so written. Insiders also know to tell you that Altieri always had the final say-so, always control over everyone's work.

Have I seen a single of the best m.a+ and LUC pieces that couldn't have been labelled Carpe diem or Lmaltieri? I thought so, with LUC, but Jevna's latest sales thread indicate that Laurini's brilliant threading emante from (time with) Altieri. (The bad m.a+ and LUC – and there are plenty – have never had a Carpe diem/Lmaltieri tag.)

Doesn't a real master develop his skills and an aesthetics of his own? You clearly see the difference between Chrome Hearts and Carpe diem, between Lmaltieri and Avantindietro, not to speak of Christian Dior and Yves Saint Laurent, Pierre Cardin and Jean-Paul Gaultier, Nino Cerruti and Giorgio Armani, even Rei Kawakubo and Junya Watanabe.

Surely it's too early to judge either of the Carpe diem familiars. Didn't even Altieri first with Carpe diem do Chrome Hearts?

[lowrey]

Your case is weaker than mine. Carpe diem is Maurizio Altieri until otherwise proven.

having the final say does not mean he designed every piece, does it? you make it sound like the other designers just hung around there and didn't really come up with anything.

[zamb]

Less likely than possible. Your case is weaker than mine. Carpe diem is Maurizio Altieri until otherwise proven.

I'm sure the Perugia atmosphere was superbly innovative those years and that Altieri gained by creative and not least technical exchanges with Amadei and Laurini. Crouka/Runner has so written. Insiders also know to tell you that Altieri always had the final say-so, always control over everyone's work.

Have I seen a single of the best m.a+ and LUC pieces that couldn't have been labelled Carpe diem or Lmaltieri? I thought so, with LUC, but Jevna's latest sales thread indicate that Laurini's brilliant threading emante from (time with) Altieri. (The bad m.a+ and LUC – and there are plenty – have never had a Carpe diem/Lmaltieri tag.)

Doesn't a real master develop his skills and an aesthetics of his own? You clearly see the difference between Chrome Hearts and Carpe diem, between Lmaltieri and Avantindietro, not to speak of Christian Dior and Yves Saint Laurent, Pierre Cardin and Jean-Paul Gaultier, Nino Cerruti and Giorgio Armani, even Rei Kawakubo and Junya Watanabe.

Surely it's too early to judge either of the Carpe diem familiars. Didn't even Altieri first with Carpe diem do Chrome Hearts?

You didn't answer my original question,

you only propose that my case is weaker than yours.............
Matter of fact I have no case at all................for me it doesn't matter, you like the stuff you buy it, regardless of who made it.........or even its origins plain and simple.

I am just saying, and this comes form experience of being a designer running my own company and also working for other companies............no one person has all the ideas, and all the experience necessary to run a multi product brand, it just doesn't happen.
Yes, one individual has the final say and control, but that doesn't mean all the ideas originated with such an individual.
these men are all grown men they are not people who just came out of college, its plausible to assume that they mist have been doing something before working with Altieri, and had ideas/ experience that contributed to the brand.

[surver]

'design' is always a work of creative collaboration between the individuals involved. only 'art' borders on being of total singular personal creation (traditionally)... but then, this can't be said of too many contemporary 'artists'...

'vision', on the other hand, can be attritubuted to one originator... but that is on the overall, larger direction of things... how the vision gets manifested, developed is dependent on the creative collisions amongst the members of the team... every individual, in one way or another, brings something of his/her own to the table that affects the totality...

i can understand how one can say what a 'visionary' altieri was with c diem, and how people can say that amadei and luc are less, due to their pure concentration on producing beautiful items without putting too much emphasis on the overall conceptual stuff such as presentation/imagery/marketing (or purposeful lack of)/special projects/etc..