Rick Owens

[merkuri]

need help stat from high collar intarsia owners. trying to pick one up for my cousin in the uk. will a large fit a us 42.5 chest? too big? too small?

[Faust]

How do you guys think Rick Owens fits into the current zeitgeist? To me he's an avant garde designer, but as it comes to his designs, he doesnt follow trends or anything, right?

And how do you guys think he stays fresh all the time? Lately I get the feeling that he's just repeating his menswear season after season (since FW07 or something), with just minor changes.
His womanswear at the other hand seems to get more of a change in silhouet, but stays true to Rick Owens, you know? Or maybe thats just the colorpalette that he uses.
What you guys think?

He IS the current zeitgeist.

[stretcheroo]

need help stat from high collar intarsia owners. trying to pick one up for my cousin in the uk. will a large fit a us 42.5 chest? too big? too small?

I am a 44 chest and find the XL to be very tight -- I would think the XL for a 42.5 would be the way to go.

[merkuri]

^thanks much

[beardown]

And how do you guys think he stays fresh all the time? Lately I get the feeling that he's just repeating his menswear season after season (since FW07 or something), with just minor changes.
His womanswear at the other hand seems to get more of a change in silhouet, but stays true to Rick Owens, you know? Or maybe thats just the colorpalette that he uses.
What you guys think?

I think it's mostly a case of an artist who (as FTB said) has found his voice. When you think in terms of art and design rather than in terms of consumerism or product, it makes more sense.
Artists develop with time and hit a stride...generally an aesthetic culmination of what they've done over the years.
The consistency is important to the line and the identity (in terms of branding) so the changes you see may be subtle but it's a gradual progression when artists generally develop. What we see is a slow progress of what will undoubtedly be a more noticeable shift in time and with hindsight.
Maybe in a few years there can be a (virtual) visual time lapse of the line not unlike what you would see from anything else that ages and morphs over time.

I just don't think any artist should shift a vision to the cadence of seasonal product and I'm glad to see the changes take place subtly and slowly and not so defined from season to season or line to line.
A think a some designers put way too much import on that idea of making something brand new per season (for the excitement of offering a new direction) rather than developing and building.
Ideally, as an artist or a designer, you want people to see your work and know it's yours. So I think designers do need to maintain a pretty good amount of restraint or at least feel the pressure of maintaining that restraint when working on a new line.

What you've asked is an interesting topic though because it does bring back up the inevitable 'artist vision' vs. sales debate. Undoubtedly there's a way to happily balance the two but when any artist gets to the point of success that Rick has enjoyed, it can't be an easy. He's faced with the prospect of boring people (consumers & critics) and becoming stale if he doesn't move forward quick enough but if he moves forward too quickly, he may not end up being true to whatever artistic vision he's developed so well.
And as he's enjoyed more mainstream success and new fans in the past few years I'm sure there's a lot more pressure as his lines evolve than there once was. He's been able to keep the basics solid (probably the majority of pieces sold) with subtle changes, he can still introduce some pretty dramatic and risky outerwear pieces and footwear (that people might either love or hate) while still maintaining a solid line.

Sorry this is long. I'm an artist & designer myself so these topics are interesting to me.

[mrbeuys]

Great post, and I think you can see art and commerce in conjunction as well. For me (and I may be an extreme example) it's a vision I am drawn in by, a (for lack of a better word) lifestyle and I actually do not seek big changes from season to season. I want evolution, but the fact that you can easily mix pieces from collections as far back as 2004 without it feeling like a mad pastiche is a bonus for me as a consumer, rather than a drawback.
It's the antithesis to the common ADD culture of fashion and might indeed bring it closer to art in that sense.

[Faust]

I think it's mostly a case of an artist who (as FTB said) has found his voice. When you think in terms of art and design rather than in terms of consumerism or product, it makes more sense.
Artists develop with time and hit a stride...generally an aesthetic culmination of what they've done over the years.
The consistency is important to the line and the identity (in terms of branding) so the changes you see may be subtle but it's a gradual progression when artists generally develop. What we see is a slow progress of what will undoubtedly be a more noticeable shift in time and with hindsight.
Maybe in a few years there can be a (virtual) visual time lapse of the line not unlike what you would see from anything else that ages and morphs over time.

I just don't think any artist should shift a vision to the cadence of seasonal product and I'm glad to see the changes take place subtly and slowly and not so defined from season to season or line to line.
A think a some designers put way too much import on that idea of making something brand new per season (for the excitement of offering a new direction) rather than developing and building.
Ideally, as an artist or a designer, you want people to see your work and know it's yours. So I think designers do need to maintain a pretty good amount of restraint or at least feel the pressure of maintaining that restraint when working on a new line.

What you've asked is an interesting topic though because it does bring back up the inevitable 'artist vision' vs. sales debate. Undoubtedly there's a way to happily balance the two but when any artist gets to the point of success that Rick has enjoyed, it can't be an easy. He's faced with the prospect of boring people (consumers & critics) and becoming stale if he doesn't move forward quick enough but if he moves forward too quickly, he may not end up being true to whatever artistic vision he's developed so well.
And as he's enjoyed more mainstream success and new fans in the past few years I'm sure there's a lot more pressure as his lines evolve than there once was. He's been able to keep the basics solid (probably the majority of pieces sold) with subtle changes, he can still introduce some pretty dramatic and risky outerwear pieces and footwear (that people might either love or hate) while still maintaining a solid line.

Sorry this is long. I'm an artist & designer myself so these topics are interesting to me.

Zam, this is what I was trying to say in the authorship thread, but not as eloquently.

[Faust]

Beardown, from what I gather, Rick has solved the artist v. sales problem - he doesn't give a fuck who buys it. It's out of his control once it's in a public domain, and that's the end of it.

[Chant]

/\ Looks like HDG's little brother as registered here as well.

[cjbreed]

pffffffffffft. i lol'd

[SHYE_POSER]

Beardown, from what I gather, Rick has solved the artist v. sales problem - he doesn't give a fuck who buys it. It's out of his control once it's in a public domain, and that's the end of it.

exactly!! This is a point that i always bring up in discussions like the one gone before hand.
It rings true with all the lauded,purist,artist designers that we follow on here.
The designer has a vision of how his garments are worn,with what they are worn and to some extent who they are worn buy.

But once they are out of the factory/atelier,all control and the idealist vision is lost. Hence why you see (well i do) guys wearing a rick leather with dolce jeans and varvatos cons or a ccp jacket with lanvin sneaks.

[beardown]

Beardown, from what I gather, Rick has solved the artist v. sales problem - he doesn't give a fuck who buys it. It's out of his control once it's in a public domain, and that's the end of it.

Faust, I hope you're right. I think I feel I've been letdown in terms of (my own) expectations from artists even ranging into things like music. Where a band that's been around for a long time makes an album that becomes really popular and they don't know where to go with the next one and it ends up sucking because they feel the weight of maintaining the popularity/success they've achieved and that pressure spoils the creative process.

I'm not familiar enough with Rick's philosophy except through reading a few interviews. I do think it's a huge benefit that he doesn't have shareholders or investors to answer to.
Nothing ruins creativity faster than a director who's holding the cash.

One of the most exciting things about clothing design is that there is that palpable, linear progress from season to season...the excitement of expectation and presentation.
I think we are all hunters and gatherers at heart and we are always anticipating the thrill of the next chase. Maybe that's why it's easy to sometimes expect too much between seasons from certain designers. Maybe the real challenge is to lose that instinct as a viewer and to see it from a creation standpoint.

Even with a brand like Julius, I always look forward to the next season. If the line is too close to the last, I'm a little disappointed but if the pieces have changed too much I'm also a little disappointed. I'm trying to shake that instinct but I feel it creeping in sometimes...what I expect vs. what's realistic.

Strangely enough, I don't own a tremendous amount of n(n) but I really lament the fact there will be no future collections/presentations to see. Proof positive I think that the anticipation of a new line can be a visceral experience rather than a consumer experience in terms of expectations.

[jcotteri]

completely agree BD..

[Faust]

I feel the same way, beardown. I LOVE consistency. I love an artist who has set up his boundaries and works within them, as long as these boundaries stem from something genuine. Then they can dig deeper and deeper and keep on experimenting. For me as a wearer it totally works. I WANT consistency. I WANT five Ann Demeulemeester coats that look similar, but not the same. This is my style. It reflects my character and a part of my soul. That's exactly what I seek. That's why I don't get all these lamentations about consistency. Consistency is not sameness. I say more Ann, more Rick, more Julius, more power to them.

[reac99]

do it if you can.

Here they are. Photos of the current issue of Man About Town with the conversation between Rick Owens and Andrei Molodkin.

Not the best quality photos since it's somewhat difficult to photo these thick magazines, but I'm sure you guys can read the text when zooming.

man_about_town.zip