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  • DRRRK
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2009
    • 1195

    Great post, beardown. I don't trust creativity if it is all over the place, a little bit for everyone. And thanks Faust for calling this consistency. I've been looking for a word to describe what I am aiming for in my style, in german of course. I will say "Konstanz" (which is also a town...) from now on.

    Comment

    • Faust
      kitsch killer
      • Sep 2006
      • 37852

      Thanks Reac99
      Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

      StyleZeitgeist Magazine

      Comment

      • tweeds
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2006
        • 246

        Originally posted by Faust View Post
        Consistency is not sameness.
        what about consistency in method?
        junya (before he sat on americana) had a habit of applying his approach of tailoring and reworking to a style or class of menswear every season - if you looked at his output it used a different vocabulary every season, but carried the same message:

        "Something real/Something that has history, that has a traditional shape/Our way of originality/A new feeling for basics"
        SITE | TWITTER

        Comment

        • Faust
          kitsch killer
          • Sep 2006
          • 37852

          I don't think consistency in method comes from the same place as consistency in aesthetics. It does not reflect your soul. You can't be a biker today and a misplaced country dandy tomorrow. Ask Johnny how many pieces by Junya he owns from the biker collection or from the Taxi Driver collection.
          Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

          StyleZeitgeist Magazine

          Comment

          • sakamoto
            Junior Member
            • Dec 2009
            • 1

            i like this

            Comment

            • casem
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2006
              • 2590

              I more or less agree with Beardown/Faust's preference for consistency and a singular vision. But just to throw a wrench into things, what about a designer who's consistency and vision is based on experimentation; leaving no creative stone unturned (CDG for example). These designers bring a freshness to the discipline and are important in pushing forward the dialogue of an artistic field.

              In music, I'm thinking John Cage who decided why not write a piece for radios and blenders, or a piano with shit on it or roll dice to pick the notes etc. Some of the experiments may have been unsuccessful, I'm not sure how many people listen to the blender piece anymore, but they were important in opening up the realm of possibilities for future generations.

              In one's style, there are people that fall into a similar category. We all know those who pull of a dizzying array of looks and have incredibly eclectic wardrobes. I don't find these people any less authentic or less deep than more consistent dressers, rather it can reflect the exuberant experimental personality of the wearer (I assume Heirloom to fall into this category, but I don't want to typecast him having seen only a few WAYWT posts).

              Personally, I tend to be super consistent in my creative output (and dressing) with small evolutions in each new piece. But I sometimes feel humbled by the creativity of people (mr. buckler comes to mind) who have explored a wide range of creative ideas and seem to move across styles with ease.

              I suppose the interesting thing then, is how do we know who are the "posers" grasping for an identity by trying on different looks and who are the people for whom variety is a core piece of their identity? On the other side, how do we tell apart the consistent people who are expressing their well cultivated identity and who is just being lazy? We all seem to know instantly which side someone falls on, even over an internet forum based on amateur self pics, yet somehow we know (or think we know) if someone is being authentic or not. What are the cues that lead us to these decisions? I don't really have an answer, but I admit to being just as guilty of making snap judgments on people's style/motivations.
              music

              Comment

              • Faust
                kitsch killer
                • Sep 2006
                • 37852

                I don't mind that at all, Casey, and I respect these talents very much (McQueen, for example), but there is a difference between love and respect.
                Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                Comment

                • Johnny
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2006
                  • 1923

                  Originally posted by Faust View Post
                  I don't think consistency in method comes from the same place as consistency in aesthetics. It does not reflect your soul. You can't be a biker today and a misplaced country dandy tomorrow. Ask Johnny how many pieces by Junya he owns from the biker collection or from the Taxi Driver collection.
                  four and none respectively.

                  Comment

                  • tweeds
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2006
                    • 246

                    Originally posted by Faust View Post
                    I don't mind that at all, Casey, and I respect these talents very much (McQueen, for example), but there is a difference between love and respect.
                    fair enough, but i'm with casey (and his wrench) on this. as a musician i verge on many different genres of sound, but always my mind works along the same pathways of analysis and understanding, leading inevitably to subversion and combination. a consistent method.

                    of course consistency in form is something i enjoy, but i can't say i would pick one type of "soul" to the exclusion of others.

                    /wanky talk
                    SITE | TWITTER

                    Comment

                    • snafu
                      Senior Member
                      • Apr 2008
                      • 2135

                      great post

                      Originally posted by casem83 View Post
                      I more or less agree with Beardown/Faust's preference for consistency and a singular vision. But just to throw a wrench into things, what about a designer who's consistency and vision is based on experimentation; leaving no creative stone unturned (CDG for example). These designers bring a freshness to the discipline and are important in pushing forward the dialogue of an artistic field.

                      In music, I'm thinking John Cage who decided why not write a piece for radios and blenders, or a piano with shit on it or roll dice to pick the notes etc. Some of the experiments may have been unsuccessful, I'm not sure how many people listen to the blender piece anymore, but they were important in opening up the realm of possibilities for future generations.

                      In one's style, there are people that fall into a similar category. We all know those who pull of a dizzying array of looks and have incredibly eclectic wardrobes. I don't find these people any less authentic or less deep than more consistent dressers, rather it can reflect the exuberant experimental personality of the wearer (I assume Heirloom to fall into this category, but I don't want to typecast him having seen only a few WAYWT posts).

                      Personally, I tend to be super consistent in my creative output (and dressing) with small evolutions in each new piece. But I sometimes feel humbled by the creativity of people (mr. buckler comes to mind) who have explored a wide range of creative ideas and seem to move across styles with ease.

                      I suppose the interesting thing then, is how do we know who are the "posers" grasping for an identity by trying on different looks and who are the people for whom variety is a core piece of their identity? On the other side, how do we tell apart the consistent people who are expressing their well cultivated identity and who is just being lazy? We all seem to know instantly which side someone falls on, even over an internet forum based on amateur self pics, yet somehow we know (or think we know) if someone is being authentic or not. What are the cues that lead us to these decisions? I don't really have an answer, but I admit to being just as guilty of making snap judgments on people's style/motivations.
                      .

                      Comment

                      • delirium
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 164

                        interesting discussion. similar to the one in the GBS thread. definitely have to side with casem. very well put

                        Comment

                        • Faust
                          kitsch killer
                          • Sep 2006
                          • 37852

                          Originally posted by Johnny View Post
                          four and none respectively.
                          no way! which ones? you never told me! anything worth me taking the train from london?

                          Tweeds, again, I expressed my respect for them, but I don't have to love them (and I don't have to exclude them or criticize them).
                          Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                          StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                          Comment

                          • beardown
                            rekoner
                            • Feb 2009
                            • 1418

                            Casem,

                            I have a really, really, really hard time trying to compare clothing designers to people wearing what those designers create. It's almost creation vs. assemblage.
                            Everyone gets up and puts on clothes (most of us in the industrialized world, at least.) So I tend to see it as utilitarian thing that some people do better than others in terms of aesthetic.

                            As an artist, I've never really been able to stomach experimentalism as it's generally presented most of the time. A lot of people I've known who have gone in that direction did so because they realize that, for a while at least, people pay attention to weird shit. So they try really, really hard to be different or weird or unique...forgetting that those traits don't necessarily make something meritorious.

                            When I think of 'experimental art,' I think of performance art (which I can't stomach) and people who have spent 20 years trying as hard as they can to be weird so that someday, someone will come up to them and say, 'Wow! You're super weird! Look how weird you are!'
                            I sometimes like things that are 'different' so long as they're not created for the sole purpose of being different.

                            Undoubtedly artists are in a constant state of experimentation. It's just when artists make the experimentation their art that I lose interest.

                            But everyone experiments. It's not so much art as human development in my opinion. Kids play with blocks...they're experimenting. Someone who has never painted sloshes colors on a canvas...they're experimenting. Experimentation should be a lifelong process that LEADS to maturity in design and aesthetic from my viewpoint.
                            It should not BE the art.

                            Personally speaking, I enjoy seeing artists who have mastered their medium of choice. I enjoy seeing that process over the length of their career and I really respect artists who have pushed that style with a constant strength over the long haul.

                            In terms of clothing and fashion and style, I think it's the same way. Kids experiment. Everyone experiments in their own way. I'm sure the first person who wore a pair of crocs shoes really felt like they were pushing the limits of style but again, it's just play when you get down to it. It doesn't necessarily need to be documented or put on display.

                            But maybe it boils down to the age-old question of 'what is art?' I have my own opinions. You have yours. That's the way it should be and that's what makes the world go around. Some people never define it but they can still appreciate it and it will likely always be that way.
                            Originally posted by mizzar
                            Sorry for being kind of a dick to you.

                            Comment

                            • JetLag
                              Senior Member
                              • Jul 2008
                              • 302

                              Maybe this could/should be in the small Questions thread,
                              but have you experienced the Berger hammered leather jacket?
                              I plan to buy one but I heard it fits bigger than usual. I'm always a size S for RO and wonder if I have to go for the S or XS in this style.
                              Thanks
                              Originally posted by danman
                              If I could meet you in person I'd fuck you up and steal your PH you bitch. Fuck you and your site

                              Comment

                              • Faust
                                kitsch killer
                                • Sep 2006
                                • 37852

                                I don't like it, JetLag. Too stiff.
                                Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                                StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                                Comment

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