Rick Owens

[editevening]

rick owens

[Fade to Black]

some current season leathers came in when i checked the other day...can't really tell the difference between seasons in this area now. None of the panelled stuff though.

[Heirloom]

I'm sick of the wedge ordeal. the sides have been glued yet again. I can't believe people pay this mutch for crap quality like this.

[mrbeuys]

I'm sick of the wedge ordeal. the sides have been glued yet again. I can't believe people pay this mutch for crap quality like this.

Friend is having the same problem with his current season boots...
I told him to bring them back, if you pay £ 700 for boots, you should expect them to last longer than 10 wears, no?

[Heirloom]

Friend is having the same problem with his current season boots...
I told him to bring them back, if you pay £ 700 for boots, you should expect them to last longer than 10 wears, no?

I was expecting 10 years.

[hobo]

Fuck 10 years! When you spend that much money on a pair of boots if they are well looked after, they should be an heirloom (excuse the pun). The problem is that no matter how good the quality is, if they are factory made in any quantity, the designer (and team) have already lost control over the production. This is truer of footwear than woven/leather etc).

I would highly recommend a pair of Layer-0. Handmade from start to finish and they will last several lifetimes if looked after properly. Of course you also have Augusta and GrandMa, but you're into a whole other price bracket then.

Of course if you want trainers you should also consider the GBS handmade-recycled trainer.

[mrbeuys]

Hm, sorry, Hobes, but I don't buy that. For one, I have the same boots as said friend from last season and they have been worn for a year with next to no damage. Secondly, I have had shoes that cost 1/10th of these, were mass produced and lasted forever. So I don't see the argument, surely it's just a question of having the right factory to make them, just like you would look for the right hand to hand-make them. I am amazed this doesn't dent the brand perception more, because looking at the trainers, I still cannot believe that we are paying £500+ for something that's stapled together in the back with a sole that won't last longer than a month... Rick Owens crack, but I am reconsidering if I should drop a grand on the new trainers (and writing it down now, that sounds like a no-brainer already).
Blinded by the darkness.

The problem is that no matter how good the quality is, if they are factory made in any quantity, the designer (and team) have already lost control over the production. This is truer of footwear than woven/leather etc).

[hobo]

I think that you're missing my point. I didn't say that shoes had to be expensive to be well made. I'm wearing a pair of 10 year old Matterhorns right now, which cost $200. I have literally climbed mountains in them.

I think that you're making a lot of assumptions about what I said, which simply aren’t true.
eg.
1, When did I say that you couldn't get cheep shoes that don't last forever?
2, If it's so easy to find the right factory to make Rick's shoes, why are we even having this conversation?
3, Why on earth would you think that Geoffrey’s trainers are stapled or that they would not last longer than a month.

What I did comment on was a certain designer operating at a certain level within an industry that I know a little about. My comments were intended to be helpful.
If you want to get into a debate about it that's fine, but don't assume that I'm saying anything other than the words that you're reading because the ‘smokescreen’ simple detracts from the debate and please, please don't make fucking remedial comments about my friend's trainers, which have no fucking basis in fact! It's beneath you, it's beneath me and it's certainly beneath this forum.

[Johnny]

Calm it! All manner of wrong ends of sticks being grappled at there Hobo. He was referring to Rick sneakers being stapled, nothing to do with your "friend".

I think his main point is a good one though. You seemed to be suggesting that you can't blame the designer for chosing a duff factory to make their product, which I don't buy either

[hobo]

Sorry, sorry, sorry!!!

I do get carried away. I was going to edit what I just wrote but I'll leave it there to remind me not to be a fucking idiot!

I thought that you were referring to GBS sneakers!

[mrbeuys]

Apology accepted, anyway, I was just expressing my opinion.

But let me elaborate just a bit:
@ 1. I didn't say you said that, I just stated that I have had cheap mass produced shoes that last and I see people buying expensive mass produced ones that don't. Which leads me to
@ 2. I didn't say it's easy, in fact I haven't got a clue what it takes to find a shoe factory, I am just stating that some seem to have sorted it out and Rick doesn't, which I find odd, because he appears to take such good care of everything else. I am furthermore wondering if they switched factory this season, as I didn't have the problems last season.

And I think we are generally all grateful for your insight and help, I just wanted to have a discussion, because saying I should buy other shoes isn't really addressing the point when I am trying to find out what's wrong with the shoes we were talking about here, however helpful it is intended to be.

[hobo]

[edit] This was in answer to Johnny's post.

I'm not making excuses for designer footwear. I'm doing quite the opposite. I'm saying that the problem is that the price is high because the production runs are low, which means that the price doesn't necessarily reflect the quality. What I'm saying is that if I were you I wouldn't hit this middle market, which is still developing. I would buy a pair of handmade shoes because they are easier to maintain, easier to repair and generally much better made. The assumption that mrbeuys made was that I was saying that that was the only way to go, which of course I'm not. If you don't want to go for the expense of handmade and aren’t bothered if your shoes look better in 10 years than when you bought them, I would go for a tried and tested high street brand like Converse. They are reasonably constructed and when they fall apart you just buy some more!

mrbeuys, sorry again, for my little outburst!

[hobo]

Apology accepted, anyway, I was just expressing my opinion.

But let me elaborate just a bit:
@ 1. I didn't say you said that, I just stated that I have had cheap mass produced shoes that last and I see people buying expensive mass produced ones that don't. Which leads me to
@ 2. I didn't say it's easy, in fact I haven't got a clue what it takes to find a shoe factory, I am just stating that some seem to have sorted it out and Rick doesn't, which I find odd, because he appears to take such good care of everything else. I am furthermore wondering if they switched factory this season, as I didn't have the problems last season.

And I think we are generally all grateful for your insight and help, I just wanted to have a discussion, because saying I should buy other shoes isn't really addressing the point when I am trying to find out what's wrong with the shoes we were talking about here, however helpful it is intended to be.

Ok, in answer to your question. One of the reasons that Rick hasn't sorted it out is because his production is exactly the wrong size. He occupies a space between the traditional fashion houses like YSL and Lanvin, along with the ready-to-wear labels like Ann and Dries, who have larger production runs and make no bones about the fact that their stuff is mass produced, and on the other side, the handmade/bespoke guys like GrandMa, Allessio Zero and Augusta, who have very small production and therefore retain a very high degree of control over the process. Rick started out as one of these guys but he has become so popular that he is kind of in between now which means that the big factories won’t produce because he doesn’t have enough units but there are too many for the small places!

And that is why I would go handmade or mass produced.

Ps. this is just personal advice. I know lot's of people, including FabFan who own Rick trainers and are very happy with them.

[mrbeuys]

^ Yeah, all makes sense, I just wonder why there isn't a market for the in-between space that Rick occupies, surely someone could jump in and make that work and grow with the brands they take on. I can see parallel developments in other areas, namely book printing and binding where you can get medium runs (5-10k) at amazing quality for a good price in Italy and Asia because that's what they specialise on.

And even though I understand your argument from an inside view, as a consumer you would still think that (aside from paying for the brand itself) a shoe that is twice the price of a 'good normal' boot would be at least as well constructed and last as long, if not longer. Paying a premium but also paying for the particular problematic production situation the label may find itself in (as described by you) just doesn't feel right. I think it's Rick's to fix, not mine. And I know you understand that too of course and maybe I need to follow your advice and go Converse or Hand-Made - I am just sayin'.

[Faust]

It's more of a problem for Luca than Rick. He should know the Italian manufacturing landscape well. There is no excuse for $1k footwear to fall apart. 10 years seems right.