Rick Owens

[Johnny]

[edit] This was in answer to Johnny's post.

I'm not making excuses for designer footwear. I'm doing quite the opposite. I'm saying that the problem is that the price is high because the production runs are low, which means that the price doesn't necessarily reflect the quality. What I'm saying is that if I were you I wouldn't hit this middle market, which is still developing. I would buy a pair of handmade shoes because they are easier to maintain, easier to repair and generally much better made. The assumption that mrbeuys made was that I was saying that that was the only way to go, which of course I'm not. If you don't want to go for the expense of handmade and aren’t bothered if your shoes look better in 10 years than when you bought them, I would go for a tried and tested high street brand like Converse. They are reasonably constructed and when they fall apart you just buy some more!

mrbeuys, sorry again, for my little outburst!

Understood.

This is a slightly different point, but I keep thinking, I can get a pair of Trickers for 1/5 the price of Augustas......how? Two sides to the "how", which translate to "whys" -(1) why can't the "middle market" use a factory that Tricker's or similar use to produce their relatively limited runs and (2) why are Augustas etc so much more expensive than traditionally made, traditional shoes?

[hobo]

^ Yeah, all makes sense, I just wonder why there isn't a market for the in-between space that Rick occupies, surely someone could jump in and make that work and grow with the brands they take on. I can see parallel developments in other areas, namely book printing and binding where you can get medium runs (5-10k) at amazing quality for a good price in Italy and Asia because that's what they specialise on.

I think that that is exactly what will happen. Other’s will come along and are doing and the space will be filled, at which point there won’t be a problem. But right now it is and that is because what Rick has done (With a lot of help from Luca), is not the traditional model. They have broken all the rules and they have succeeded, for the most part in building a pretty impressive empire, but as with all new ways of doing things, there are bound to be some problems, in this case, footwear production. Luca is a good guy and he’s on the ball, so I’m sure that he will fix the immediate problems pretty quickly. As for the industry, as pointed out by Geoffrey in his thread, the whole thing is changing very rapidly. These are exciting times!

And even though I understand your argument from an inside view, as a consumer you would still think that (aside from paying for the brand itself) a shoe that is twice the price of a 'good normal' boot would be at least as well constructed and last as long, if not longer. Paying a premium but also paying for the particular problematic production situation the label may find itself in (as described by you) just doesn't feel right. I think it's Rick's to fix, not mine. And I know you understand that too of course and maybe I need to follow your advice and go Converse or Hand-Made - I am just sayin'.

Your point makes sense, but unfortunately that’s not the way it is. Sometimes a designer has to sacrifice one thing to gain on another. Ricks trainers are a great example. Because he wants an exaggerated form, there are on existing lasts or presidents set which factories can work from. This coupled with the whole scale thing that we already discussed makes life very difficult. So, in this case you are paying not for the name, or the quality, but for the design/form! My opinion is that Rick chose to sacrifice the quality for the form and one day it may well pay off, but first he must address the production issues, otherwise, as you say it will dent his image!

It's more of a problem for Luca than Rick. He should know the Italian manufacturing landscape well. There is no excuse for $1k footwear to fall apart. 10 years seems right.

True, but it’s Rick’s name on them.

[hobo]

Understood.

This is a slightly different point, but I keep thinking, I can get a pair of Trickers for 1/5 the price of Augustas......how? Two sides to the "how", which translate to "whys" -(1) why can't the "middle market" use a factory that Tricker's or similar use to produce their relatively limited runs and (2) why are Augustas etc so much more expensive than traditionally made, traditional shoes?

There are 2 issues here:
1, Trickers Vs Augusta
Trickers are good shoes but they are made to set design which is not changed/improved/etc every season, which as I pointed out in the LUC thread, is a lot of what we pay for and, more importantly, they are produced in much higher quantities to a lower general standard. More units = less cost per unit. I think that both are worth the money.

2, Trickers Vs Rick
Trickers is coming to the table form a completely different angle. They are firmly in the shoe industry, unlike Rick who is in the Fashion industry. They have a business model which is entirely geared to producing shoes. This includes history and expertise. If they tried to produce a leather jacket, they would fall well short of Mr Owens’s standards. Also, they produce way, way more units, putting them in the same level (quantity wise) with Ann, Lanvin etc.

[calv]

I love the discussion.. one question for the unknowing did Luca Laurini help Rick design his sneaker, both new and old model? or only the new one?

[hobo]

Different Luca.

[mrbeuys]

I love the discussion.. one question for the unknowing did Luca Laurini help Rick design his sneaker, both new and old model? or only the new one?

Uhm, we are talking about Luca Ruggeri here, who is one of his business partners.

[calv]

yes i googled it after hobo said it was a different luca, as i wanted to know which one

i already found it quite strange and was a stupid assumption of me, which i made b/c of reading about innovative design/form and italian manufacturing landscape..

[calv]

I think that that is exactly what will happen. Other’s will come along and are doing and the space will be filled, at which point there won’t be a problem. But right now it is and that is because what Rick has done (With a lot of help from Luca), is not the traditional model. They have broken all the rules and they have succeeded, for the most part in building a pretty impressive empire, but as with all new ways of doing things, there are bound to be some problems, in this case, footwear production. Luca is a good guy and he’s on the ball, so I’m sure that he will fix the immediate problems pretty quickly. As for the industry, as pointed out by Geoffrey in his thread, the whole thing is changing very rapidly. These are exciting times!

I don't think this will happen that soon. As you stated they are braking the rules and are going completely opposite of the traditional shoe form. If i am correct, Rick is currently the only player in this league. Machines need to be altered or adjusted for this new form which will result in quite a steep investment. The investment is, for a shoe factory, not worth the money as he's the only one doing this and doing this in a limited run. Until he starts mass producing or others are joining him (other companies using the design/form). I dont see this particular space being filled that rapidly.

Edit: i am not talking about the construction problems as these will ofcourse be fixed quickly or the label's name will be damaged. I am talking about the gap between mass producing and bespoke tailoring.

[Fuuma]

[edit] This was in answer to Johnny's post.

I'm not making excuses for designer footwear. I'm doing quite the opposite. I'm saying that the problem is that the price is high because the production runs are low, which means that the price doesn't necessarily reflect the quality. What I'm saying is that if I were you I wouldn't hit this middle market, which is still developing. I would buy a pair of handmade shoes because they are easier to maintain, easier to repair and generally much better made. The assumption that mrbeuys made was that I was saying that that was the only way to go, which of course I'm not. If you don't want to go for the expense of handmade and aren’t bothered if your shoes look better in 10 years than when you bought them, I would go for a tried and tested high street brand like Converse. They are reasonably constructed and when they fall apart you just buy some more!

mrbeuys, sorry again, for my little outburst!

Having looking at layer-o I have to say that the ability to replace the leather soles when they wear out + the durability of the leather (don't own any but judging from what I know) means that with normal wear they could last decades. That much is true. There is a world of difference between factory glued and machine stitched. Everything stitched can be repaired for one...

[Heirloom]

everything stitched is actually wearable. what pisses me off to no end is that there is no substitute. Layer-O don't make wedge boots. compared to Ricks shoes, everything else looks completely the same. And I hate that. I'm speaking of mens footwear, not womens. They have variety. As much as I appreciate your suggestions hobo, you can't really expect someone who wants the wedges to settle for anything else if it's not remotely similiar.

[merkuri]

bottom layer of crepe sole coming off side zips after 10 wearings.

[editevening]

bottom layer of crepe sole coming off side zips after 10 wearings.

that sucks. both my pairs of the sidezips have lasted over a year now and minimal wear to the heel which is rare for me. Although i may only wear them once a week.

[calv]

bottom layer of crepe sole coming off side zips after 10 wearings.

that's a real 'crap' sole

[merkuri]

crazy glue worked fine, but it shouldn't have to.

[fivezero]

The RO MobileMe Gallery photos are up for Men's SS10.

http://gallery.me.com/rickowens