Comme des Garcons SS07 - Womens, Paris

[Faust]

Re: Comme des Garcons SS07 - Womens, Paris

[quote user="dontbecruel"]

Over here the Union Jack is strongly associated with skinhead facism. Although there are attempts to rehabilitate it from from time to time (e.g. by the Spice Girls or Morrissey) it is basically taboo and most people wouldn't be seen dead in it.

The Japanese flag is also considered to be of questionable taste by many in its own country, where it is associated by some with militarist nationalism, institutional racism against korean and chinese minorties, and unquestioning respect for the imperial family. It is not quite the same flag that flew over the hideous atrocities committed by the Japanese army in the war, but it's close enough!

Flags are considered "pure design" because a few colours on a piece of fabic can stand for a a great deal. So what they are perceived to stand for matters, I reckon.

[/quote]

In that case, somebody please show me a flag that is not tainted with blood. Just thought about something - Rei strikes again, bad PR is still PR. She's such a cunning businesswoman, lol.

[dontbecruel]

Re: Comme des Garcons SS07 - Womens, Paris

I completely agree, Faust. I would never wear any country's flag.

[Johnny]

Re: Comme des Garcons SS07 - Womens, Paris



Faust I was thinking exactly the same thing about her getting discussions going - all that lot on tfs going on abouty how irrelevant she is, but still having long discussions around what she puts on a catwalk show! I have no real feeling for what the japanese flag stands for to the japanese or those historically opressed or invaded by them. But it seems to me that there must be some meaning in using the flag specifically.A big blue dot would, presumably, have the same "purity" of design as a big red dot.Kawakubo likes to provoke and then hide behind her enigma, actually as she's perfectly entitled to. I understand what nqth is saying about the abstract design notion, but I'm afraid I can't agree. Every flag has a kind of nationalistic connotation - it's sort of trite to have to point that out. I would NOT wear anything with a union jack on it. Less about objections on colonialism than the fact that it simply has those nationalistic connotations, and I'm not a big nationalist. It is also, as others have said, certainly a bit naff.

I have to say that when I looked at this collection I completly ignored the flagstuff - I was more dissappointed with the repitition of largely unwaearable design generally from her previous collections.

[laika]

Re: Comme des Garcons SS07 - Womens, Paris

[quote user="dontbecruel"]

Over here the Union Jack is strongly associated with skinhead facism. Although there are attempts to rehabilitate it from from time to time (e.g. by the Spice Girls or Morrissey) it is basically taboo and most people wouldn't be seen dead in it.

The Japanese flag is also considered to be of questionable taste by many in its own country, where it is associated by some with militarist nationalism, institutional racism against korean and chinese minorties, and unquestioning respect for the imperial family. It is not quite the same flag that flew over the hideous atrocities committed by the Japanese army in the war, but it's close enough!

Flags are considered "pure design" because a few colours on a piece of fabic can stand for a a great deal. So what they are perceived to stand for matters, I reckon.

[/quote]

Practically speaking, I agree with you. I am not a flag-wearing (or waving) person either. I also reject nationalism, but I don't think the nation (or the flag) is simply equal to its committed atrocities. At least I hope not, since I am stuck over here!

Anyway, I think nationalism is definitely NOT the point of this collection. A flag made into a skirt or shoes is different from one planted on the moon or flown over a war scene. Someone made a very good reference to a quote by Robert Irwin: "Seeing is forgetting the name of the thing one sees." Seems a most apt description of what is going on with CDG.

[dontbecruel]

Re: Comme des Garcons SS07 - Womens, Paris



I don't think a nation is equal to its atrocities either. But there's no getting round it... as Laika said in her original post, flags are symbols of national projects, whether wars or explorations of other planets. A flag design on a skirt is making a reference to that of one sort or another, unless the person wearing the skirt and the person who designed it are both idiots (not impossible, I admit). Back to the point... I think this is an ugly, stupid collection. I don't buy the idea of Rei as a fashion genius. She has made a lot of nice clothes, but she's produced a lot of rubbish too, and her personal opinions always sound a bit childish to me.

I can't help comparing this collection with the latest Yohji, unfortunately, which is a bit like comparing a breast enlargement with brain surgery.

[nqth]

Re: Comme des Garcons SS07 - Womens, Paris



I remember you said you didn't like anything with union jakc a while a go, Johnny.

I always thought the UK flag has sth in common with punk:-)),after seeingsome earlierVW stuffs.

I must say I didn't care for the flag and tshirts as well, before someone in tFS started the discussion.

[Faust]

Re: Comme des Garcons SS07 - Womens, Paris

[quote user="laika"]

Practically speaking, I agree with you. I am not a flag-wearing (or waving) person either. I also reject nationalism, but I don't think the nation (or the flag) is simply equal to its committed atrocities. At least I hope not, since I am stuck over here!

Anyway, I think nationalism is definitely NOT the point of this collection. A flag made into a skirt or shoes is different from one planted on the moon or flown over a war scene. Someone made a very good reference to a quote by Robert Irwin: "Seeing is forgetting the name of the thing one sees." Seems a most apt description of what is going on with CDG.

[/quote]

I don't know, laika - what if you were to substitute "symbolize" for "equal," would you still say it? Like it or not, flag is a symbol, an abstraction that is both easy to flaunt and target. In every war since the dawn of humanity, protecting the flag was the highest honor given to the best soldiers. It's a very important symbol. I wish as much as you that these symbols did not exist, but we are stuck with them... for now.

So, I don't know what's going on at tFS, but if someone wants to add more fuel to the fire - just saw an add for McQ with a girl wearing a vest with German Swastika and the Iron Cross (the highest medal of Nazi germany) - now that's OFFENSIVE, especially coming from a country that was at war with Germany (sorry, my British friends, I don't mean to harp on the UK - it was a coincidence).

Johnny, completely agree, she is smart, if anything. Who says she's irrelevant? Rei will go down in fashion history, and rightfully so.

[laika]

Re: Comme des Garcons SS07 - Womens, Paris

Faust, if you changed "equal" to "symbolizes" the meaning of the sentence would be totally different. I completely agree that the flag symbolizes those things, but it symbolizes a lot of other things as well. I should have said "the flag is not reducable to the atrocities committed by the nation," or something like that.

Anyway, I think you are right--once history happens, technical/original meanings recede from importance. I don't think I could ever wear a swastika, even the indo-european one. Like dontbecruel said, the way things are perceived is ultimately the most relevant thing, unfurtunately. [:(]

That ad sounds horrendous. Who on earth published that?

[Faust]

Re: Comme des Garcons SS07 - Womens, Paris

[quote user="laika"]

Faust, if you changed "equal" to "symbolizes" the meaning of the sentence would be totally different. I completely agree that the flag symbolizes those things, but it symbolizes a lot of other things as well. I should have said "the flag is not reducable to the atrocities committed by the nation," or something like that.

Anyway, I think you are right--once history happens, technical/original meanings recede from importance. I don't think I could ever wear a swastika, even the indo-european one. Like dontbecruel said, the way things are perceived is ultimately the most relevant thing, unfurtunately. [:(]

That ad sounds horrendous. Who on earth published that?

[/quote]

i-D - you know how they think they are so avant-garde. you can see it on the news stands. the funny things is, i don't percieve McQueen is going to get the stink diesel got from the Christian groups when they made the Last Supper ad. For now, my checkbook is closed to McQueen. Actually, I think I will take my camera, snap a picture of it, and start a riot.

[laika]

Re: Comme des Garcons SS07 - Womens, Paris

[quote user="dontbecruel"]

I don't think a nation is equal to its atrocities either. But there's no getting round it... as Laika said in her original post, flags are symbols of national projects, whether wars or explorations of other planets. A flag design on a skirt is making a reference to that of one sort or another, unless the person wearing the skirt and the person who designed it are both idiots (not impossible, I admit). Back to the point... I think this is an ugly, stupid collection. I don't buy the idea of Rei as a fashion genius. She has made a lot of nice clothes, but she's produced a lot of rubbish too, and her personal opinions always sound a bit childish to me.

I can't help comparing this collection with the latest Yohji, unfortunately, which is a bit like comparing a breast enlargement with brain surgery.

[/quote]

I guess I was thinking (perhaps too idealistically) that extracting a flag from its usual context and making it into clothing might subvert some of its symbolic potency. Punk's appropriation of the Union Jack did this; but I suspect, based on the reactions to this collection, that it just doesn't work like that anymore. You can't change the world just by moving signs around.

On the subject of Rei being childish: I know what you mean, I always think of her as being childish in the way that an old person is. Stubborn and self-centered....but old people have the right to be, I suppose.

I am SO disappointed with the collection that is in the stores now. I might wear it if I were an eccentric elderly lady, but I feel like it's all wrong on someone of my age. It's a pity, because I liked it on the runway.

[Johnny]

Re: Comme des Garcons SS07 - Womens, Paris

Laika that's very true about the current collection. The only things I though were in any way "youthfull" were the sort of flamenco dresses in red and black. I also loved the show (I was actually at it and it was beautiful, andbeautifully presented).

[Faust]

Re: Comme des Garcons SS07 - Womens, Paris

[quote user="Faust"][quote user="laika"]

Faust, if you changed "equal" to "symbolizes" the meaning of the sentence would be totally different. I completely agree that the flag symbolizes those things, but it symbolizes a lot of other things as well. I should have said "the flag is not reducable to the atrocities committed by the nation," or something like that.

Anyway, I think you are right--once history happens, technical/original meanings recede from importance. I don't think I could ever wear a swastika, even the indo-european one. Like dontbecruel said, the way things are perceived is ultimately the most relevant thing, unfurtunately. [:(]

That ad sounds horrendous. Who on earth published that?

[/quote]

i-D - you know how they think they are so avant-garde. you can see it on the news stands. the funny things is, i don't percieve McQueen is going to get the stink diesel got from the Christian groups when they made the Last Supper ad. For now, my checkbook is closed to McQueen. Actually, I think I will take my camera, snap a picture of it, and start a riot.

[/quote]

I wrote this up on my blog.

[nqth]

Re: Comme des Garcons SS07 - Womens, Paris



You might be right about the current collection. Most ppl at the Comme show wore blk stuffs from the witches, longtuxedo... Just few managed to wear the crossed dress-suit. Rather the simplier ones, like a grey swr with red dress sewn in...

I saw lot of aw06 at Colette and they looked good on manequins, tho:-P