m.a+ (Maurizio Amadei)

[AKA*NYC]

nice post cjbreed! true on all counts and especially the last.

[snafu]

fenfrost got that one for my girlfriend :)

[fenrost]

^ your girl is a sz-superbabe

[lowrey]

good post cj.

and you are all welcome. that photo would have never made its way on to the interwebz if I hadn't dragged more photos out of Amadei for our interview

[tricotineacetat]

over the past several days i went thru this entire thread and there were a few things that interested me. one is that i think many newer users or casual observers may think that there is universal approval for amadei here, probably because of his cdiem relationship, and that that is reflected in that whole "baller" thing and waywt misinterpretations and so called "bad" fits controversy where its good just because its ma+ or ccp label whoring thing. this couldn't be further from the truth. there were a ton of negative comments and reports from many many people that i was surprised to read. many were related to pricing vs value issues which are totally understandable. others were based on actual design and execution. i think it took a while for general ma+ approval to develop (of course there are still detractors and ma+ fails). and i have an idea why based on what i've read and my personal experience.

i've always purchased online and i can admit that there were times when a pricey ma+ piece would show up and i'd think to myself "really? thats it? and i paid how much for this?" often there is no lining, the material is too rough or too heavy or too light or the piece is just too, i don't know, minimal i guess. but i think its best to test drive a piece before rejecting it. so i've always given it a chance. and i'm quite certain that amadei makes pieces that need to be experienced to be appreciated. you need to touch it, spend time with it, examine it, and most importantly wear it in order to see its value. only then can you be really impressed by the fact that the material isn't too rough or heavy, it just needs to be worn in. it molds to your body and performs in a way that rivals much heavier or more processed fabrics. and its not too light, because the quality of the weave means that it will last twice as long as materials of comparable weight. and its not too minimal. the magic is in that it is just right. it is the purity of the design and materials and the elegance in the simplicity of the garment combined with the hidden complexity of the pattern and construction that are so impressive. 2d representations of m.a+ are poor substitutes for handling the goods.

and no he's not the only one doing it and yes some of it is derivative and yes there are occasional fails but these are just my thoughts after reading the thread. and overall i think amadei succeeds more often than he fails. i'm a fan and intend to invest in m.a+ for a long time to come.

i'm not going to mention price right now though. thats a whole other thing and i'm all typed out

i also decided that i'd like to see the title of this thread changed to m.a+ (maurizio amadei) instead of just the "+" even though the first collection didn't have the ma part added yet. it just drives me nuts because i like everything in its right place...

also that female model he used is a total babe

This 'just right' or 'no-nonsense-staple-dressing' factor was something people drew to Jil Sander and Helmut Lang in the first place and to some degree also to Hedi Slimane, back when his vision was not terribly watered down with gimmick-y entrance price sportswear... seeing all these designers gone from the limelight still leaves quite a big void on today's fashion.

What I find quite intimidating with most of the designers coming out of the Carpe Diem school is that the clothing they are making - as you were mentioning - is in fact not as artisanal as people describe them as - you admitted correctly that these designers (and those following their aesthetic consense) are mostly doing deconstructed sportswear in which the so-called artisanal hand is actually missing - and no, to me that is not provided by merely putting the clothing in a washer or otherwise treating a middle-to-entry-priced Italian fabric (I was shivering when I saw that someone mentioned that a Carlo Bonomi cotton fabric used in some MA+ pants was supposed to be hand-loomed, keeping in mind that this mill actually does pretty huge-minimum cotton sportswear fabrics for properly 'industrial' collection scales).

Again, I don't have anything against designers doing 'just right' sportswear clothing as these are the things most of us are wearing on day-to-day basis, but let's leave the artisanal nimbus where the description is due...

What is really missing nowadays (and that to me is why Carol Christian Poell can ask for his sometimes outrageously high prices) is a real commitment to craft, garment construction as well as pattern cutting and to pushing these values forward into innovative territories - Poell does it with exciting tailoring techniques that are pushing these old traditions forward and I recently had an interesting meeting with London-based designer Marios Schwab through his latest collection in which he manipulated the drape of some of his fabrics from old milliner's handicrafts - it was quite exciting to follow his explanations on how he achieved to mold his thick woollen fabrics without using a single dart on some of his pieces.

[AKA*NYC]

^ not sure if i understand your post correctly but are you suggesting that what amadei makes is essentially sportswear? if so can you point to an example (aside from the aviator sweatshirt) of this? wouldn't it be stating the obvious to say that his niche is deconstructed tailored wear such as blazers, frock coats, slacks, etc.? the only connection that i see to sportswear is certain funky anatomic patterns which poell is also no stranger to using.

[lowrey]

I'm not really getting it either, nor uncoupling amadei's work from being artisanal. Maybe there is a language barrier here on my part, but wouldn't the textbook definition be small production, hand made goods made using more or less traditional methods?

[mortalveneer]

I'm not really getting it either, nor uncoupling amadei's work from being artisanal. Maybe there is a language barrier here on my part, but wouldn't the textbook definition be small production, hand made goods made using more or less traditional methods?

Agree with this definition, but for me artisanal has (perhaps wrongly) always carried an element of innovation within the traditional as well...I may be conflating the artistic with the artisanal though...what do you guys think?

[AKA*NYC]

An artisan (from Italian: artigiano) is a skilled manual worker who makes items that may be functional or strictly decorative, including furniture, clothing, jewelry, household items, and tools. The term can also be used as an adjective to refer to the craft of hand making food products, such as bread, beverages and cheese.

from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artisan

innovators are inventors

[mortalveneer]

innovators are inventors

Then I prefer to patronize inventive artisans...

[AKA*NYC]

well put it this way, benjamin franklin always labeled himself a printer...

[zamb]

dont want to get too deep into this discussion, because i have alot to do today. but I think sometimes we get misguided by all of these labels and miss the point.
An Artisan is a highly skilled individual who can produce items whether it be clothing food or whatever, by simply using the knowledge and acquired skill level without needed all the industrialized processes and machinery found in a traditional garment factory. As to whether MA, is an artisan or whatever is besides the point. his Clothing IS indeed artisanal, sometimes a little too artisanal for my personal liking.
One of the things I always disliked is the idea of artisanal for artisanal sake, even when an industrialized process exist that would yield a better result. For me , if a machine stitch yields a better result than an hand stitch, I will use the machine stitch because I am interested in the best means of execution possible for the garment and not necessarily in the glrification of hand sewing.
the reason why i dislike companies like Prada etc, is not so much the clothing themselves, but the exploitation of people and the hefty price tags that are associated with clothing whose prices are highly inflated when you think of the economies of scale and leverage that these companies have in the productive sector.
Effectively with them you are at times buying into an image that getting a garment at a just cost.

Poell and MA while both respected brands here are different in what they make and should be seen as such, CCP is one of the greatest traditional tailors working today in terms of technique, his gift is using these traditional techniques in non traditional ways which results in garments that are at one traditional and unorthodox at the same time, which gives them a distinct look and feel.
MA is a different beast. he isn't a tailor per se, but is creating garments that are in some ways more artisanal than Poell and are not particularly tailored pieces but in a way a modern wardrobe with purely unorthodox patterns and look.

The idea of speaking about materials is irrelevant. Cardin once told Gaultier something that I will never forget. that "there is no reason why you cant make a pair of shoes from a scrap of leather you found on the ground". this is important because the source of ther fabric is irrelevant (so long as it isn't immoral). What matters is that the material is suitable for the result thaty the designer/ artisan intended and the customer who purchased gets a good garment for the price paid. some of the best garments i have seen are from simple materials used in highly unexpected and interesting ways.......

[tricotineacetat]

The term 'sportswear' does technically not mean performance clothing or active wear as the name may guess, but 'casual' (=non-tailored) clothing - What makes the sewing of properly tailored garments 'artisanal' are particular working steps in which the fabric is shaped and structured from the inside, those steps were originally done by hand (and are still done in Haute Couture, down to hand-sewn buttonholes and other features that are way too pricy for ready-to-wear scales) or done nowadays by expensive machinery (if a factory/workshop is specialized in the making of particular clothes such as tailored suits), but nonetheless require a lot of additional consideration and care during the realization from a toile to a finished prototype.

Again, it's not needed for all garments to be interlined and constructed to death, this is after all what the Japanese and Belgian designers rebelled against with their distinctly different silhouettes and what inevitably started as a process long before when 'designer's ready to wear' was introduced in the late 50ies - A lot of innovations were made not only in terms of style but also to accommodate less expensive manufacturing... this is also why there is quite a huge difference in the pricing of 'real' Couture garments and luxury ready to wear, since the manufacturing process (which is then almost entirely by hand) is fundamentally different...

It's really important to know the classical artisanship in a way to know what you want to do fundamentally different, which, for example makes Yohji Yamamoto's demi-couture mainline so special - you see that there is an element of craft and construction to his designs that is not purely a graphic styling, particularly for when you look at the cutting work (I suppose anyone that had the chance to see some of his womenswear up close has had similar experiences)... the way it's sewn however is essentially different from typical couture sewing, thus making not only the style but also the craft quite modern.

[tricotineacetat]

One of the things I always disliked is the idea of artisanal for artisanal sake, even when an industrialized process exist that would yield a better result. For me , if a machine stitch yields a better result than an hand stitch, I will use the machine stitch because I am interested in the best means of execution possible for the garment and not necessarily in the glrification of hand sewing.

Yes, particularly since we cannot deny that craft and technology are related to another.

I would be intrigued to see some of these garments up close that to anyone in here, hold up the mystique of artisanship in MA+ (or other related designer's) clothing - I'm not here to impose a prejudiced opinion but to see what really is the 'extra' to the garments, despite the small scale production runs.

The fabrication of a standardized deconstructed (sportswear) jacket (for example, in the shape of a suit jacket, without constructed shoulders, canvassing etc.) usually does not include any exceptional fabrication expertise and weather or not made by Prada or Amadei, is done in a factory hall after particular industrialized processes... (I doubt that the manufacturer sewing his garments pays his workers any better than those producing for the likes of Gucci, Versace or Burberry...).

Menswear as we know it today is being made after quite rigid, orthodox fabrication traditions that for some odd reason, make people like Poell an innovator for when he tapes his canvassed interlinings into his jackets instead of stitching them (weather or not that makes for a better result is another question).

[Fuuma]

Let's be honest here, the word "artisanal" is thrown around SZ while most people have no notions of what goes into, say, a bespoke suit.


ps: hand sewn buttonholes are found on some RTW garments, heck I got some jackets with those (and others with machine sewn buttonholes). Bespoke jackets usually include a bunch of "machine" work. I know a tailor who made an entirely hand sewn suit for himself and it was more an experiment and demonstration of the superiority of machine work for some parts than anything else. He studied couture and now works for a big manufacturer so he can do stress tests and allkinds of fun stuff with different stitchings. Very often tailoring myths about the superiority of handwork are debunked, Couture and bespoke are also about romanticism.