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  1. #1
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    Default Thom Browne



    There is a huge article of NYT abouthe designer



    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/19/fa...pagewanted=all





    A New Trend for Men’s Wear

    By DAVID COLMAN
    Published: October 19, 2006


    ACCORDING to the current fashion playbook, Thom Browne has made several crucial errors in his five years as a men’s wear designer. He has been out of step with the real world, focusing on a fastidiously tight and buttoned-up look when most designers aim to accommodate a dressed-down workplace. He has been out of step with fashion, working in fusty, old-man fabrics like gray flannel, while others are dressing men in denim, velvet and nylon.

    He has yet to have a proper runway show. He is not a fixture on the party circuit. He does not give clothes to celebrities. And his basic suits, which average about $3,500, are so expensive that, even on sale and with a friendly insider discount, the young trendies who talk up and flaunt new designer labels are completely unable to play along.


    Worst of all, he wears his pants profanely short, revealing not only ankle — he does not wear socks — but a good three inches of shin. This not only elicits jeers from wiseacres on every street — “Hey, Pee-wee!” is one of the most printable — but also sneers from fashion snobs who prefer their $350 skinny jeans to crumple just so over their Dior winkle-pickers.



    The result of all those blunders is that Thom Browne, 41, is today the most envied and influential American men’s wear designer. Five years ago, the short-jacket-and-pants silhouette he created looked sweet but goofy, a look no real man would wear. Now he has won the Council of Fashion Designers of America award as men’s wear designer of the year; the venerable Brooks Brothers has signed him up to do special collections; and his signature look is being copied, however blurrily, by more than a dozen men’s wear lines, from traditionalists like DKNY and Zegna to edge-of-fashion houses like Nom de Guerre.



    “He hasn’t conformed to normal business strategy,” said Tommy Fazio, the men’s fashion director at Bergdorf Goodman, where Thom Browne is a top-selling line. “At the beginning, I think people were skeptical. But he’s always true to his aesthetic, and now everyone is following suit.”



    You can debate whether he has actually made it fashionable for men to show off their ankles, since almost none of his customers wear their Thom Browne pants as short as he does. But he has made the “break” — that faint crumple of trouser leg dusting the top of the shoe, a strict standard of men’s business dress for decades — look sloppy and obsolete. It is a difference of perhaps a half-inch, but what a half-inch.



    “There’s something about dressing like Pee-wee Herman that I didn’t fully understand at first,” said Daniel Peres, the editor of Details. “And in all honesty, I am not certain I fully understand it today. But whether you personally appreciate the silhouette or not, he’s taken something men do every morning for years — put on a suit — and made it different. It’s really a tremendous feat.”



    Moreover, his enthusiasm for minute details of tailoring (not trained as a tailor himself, he steadfastly insists on having the suits in his line handmade by expert Italian tailors in Queens) has made the idea of putting on a suit seem not an unwelcome duty but a luxurious option, a concept almost alien to a generation of men in their 30’s and 40’s. And for better or for worse, his prices have helped legitimize the suit as a status item with young men for whom Brioni and Kiton seem old hat (and even for the not so young: Ronald O. Perelman has four of them. Other clients include George Stephanopoulos and David Bowie.)



    Mr. Browne’s business is still small — his line is sold in 22 stores worldwide and only six in the United States — but last month, Brooks Brothers signed him to an open-ended two-year contract to design men’s and women’s collections for the store, with projected first-year sales in the range of $10 million to $20 million. It was a match initiated by the Vogue editor, Anna Wintour, who called Claudio Del Vecchio, the company chairman, to suggest that Browne might help revitalize the Brooks brand.



    “Thom Browne is going to give us a different dimension,” Mr. Del Vecchio said. “He’s more on the edge of fashion, but it will still fit in the store.”



    Earlier this year, Mr. Browne sought and received permission from the Chambre Syndicale in Paris to show at the men’s collections there, a first for an American men’s designer. Yesterday Harry Winston announced that it had hired him to design a line of men’s jewelry. And this week, Mr. Browne is opening a 2,000-square-foot store at 100 Hudson Street in TriBeCa, its ivory terrazzo floor and gray marble walls bringing to mind, as his clothes do, an elegant early-60’s bank somewhere between Milan and Pittsburgh.



    In his counterintuitive plan of attack are lessons about what it takes to cut through the fierce and famously stodgy world of men’s wear. If other designers try to create looks in step with fashion, with just enough personality to stand out, Mr. Browne began by making clothes that he wanted to wear, and was soon wearing them all day, every day, slipping out of character only for his morning run in Central Park.



    In 2001, urged on by his then boyfriend, Charles Fagan, an executive at Polo Ralph Lauren, and his longtime friend David Biscaye, an architect with Biscaye Frères (he designed Mr. Browne’s store and wears his clothes), he quit his job as the creative fashion director of Club Monaco and started simply. With some backing from his siblings, he rented a little showroom and store in the meatpacking district.



    Just as important, he started eating breakfast — black coffee and white toast — every morning around the corner at Pastis, neatly dressed in a Thom Browne suit-slash-sandwich board.



    “I was very conscious about that, because I did want people to recognize what I stood for,” Mr. Browne said last week at Il Cantinori, the Greenwich Village restaurant where he dines on grilled salmon, green peas and Champagne roughly three nights a week. “At the same time, I really do wear these clothes because this is what I like.”



    It was at Pastis that he and his shrunken fit caught the attention of stylish men like Euan Rellie, a natty-dressing British-born banker, and Frank L. Fleming, a costume designer, who enlisted Mr. Browne to design clothes for Ewan McGregor’s character in the film “Stay” (2005). “He was this little inside secret, there every day, never talking to anyone, just drinking his coffee and looking impeccable,” Mr. Rellie recalled.



    His style also caught the eye of Robert Burke and Ron Frasch, then of Bergdorf Goodman, who bought his line for the store. There, the line was so clearly different that you wondered if it would not be better on the more conservative second floor rather than the third, where his sober-sided gray flannels and navy cashmere clashed with the colorful designer scene.



    But the clothes caught on with an underserved customer: the businessman who wants to look both conservative and cool. Brian Swardstrom, a prominent agent who had known Mr. Browne in the mid-90’s when he was living in Hollywood and struggling to be an actor. Running into him years later, Mr. Swardstrom bought a suit, and after a brief panic at how short it was, became a devoted customer.



    “They’re actually really classic,” he said. “They remind me of the 60’s, when Lew Wasserman was running MCA, when it was still an agency. He had a policy that everyone had to wear dark suits, white shirts and dark ties, and that’s kind of the Thom Browne aesthetic.”



    Not everyone embraces the look, of course. “Maybe if you’re 5-foot-6 and 140 pounds, you can pull it off,” said the men’s wear designer Alan Flusser. He also derided Brooks Brothers for choosing Mr. Browne to design for the company. “One of the things for them is a certain naturalness about how you wear clothes, and his style is anything but natural. It’s contrived.”



    Where Mr. Flusser sees artifice and pretense, Mr. Browne sees spirit and individuality. “I think that clothing being natural is all in the way a guy wears it,” he said, adding that he is not after an army of men in clam-diggers, but men who are “classic, with a little personality.”



    Indeed, one of the curious secrets of Mr. Browne’s clothes is that they do look good, even natural, on a wider range of men than one would guess. It helps to be relatively fit, but that can be said for almost every fashion line. And if he is frustrated by the perception that his clothes are designed for a select group of rich, superlean esthetes, he is aware that it has helped him more than hurt.



    As David A. Aaker, the vice chairman of Prophet, a brand management company, pointed out, “One aspect of brand success is creating something that’s different and memorable.”



    And as David Byrne once observed, “People will remember you better if you always wear the same outfit.”



    “I never heard that, but I love it,” Mr. Browne said when told of Mr. Byrne’s remark. “People think wearing a uniform makes you less interesting, but I think the opposite.”



    Even in his uniform, Mr. Browne has imagination to spare. His presentation for fall 2006 was a kind of boy’s school alpine fantasy on ice, with models on skates displaying his signature plays on proportion, like shorts and floor-length overcoats, and old-world touches like sock garters.



    His spring 2007 presentation was a haunting 30-minute film by the artist Anthony Goicolea, called “The Septembrists.” It was set in some bizarre, rural tailoring-fetish commune, like a blend of an Amish community and a military academy. In a series of vignettes, a dormitory full of young men arise, pick their own cotton to make and sew clothes, go octopus fishing at night to extract the inky dye, and perform ritual baptisms — all the while scrupulously dressed to the nines in tailored gauze and broadcloth.



    Beautifully filmed at a farm in Massachusetts, the film makes an excellent metaphor for how fanatical, verging on fetishistic, Mr. Browne’s vision is. And how blinkered. “I don’t like to know what’s going on,” he said, explaining why he does not like to go shopping. “It’s too easy to be influenced. It’s better to be totally off base and have it be something you love.”



    It is also easier not to see himself as a player. “It’s not hard, really, if you do your thing,” he said. “Then it’s not the game of fashion.”



    And, it appears, it’s easier to win.



    Robert Wright for The New York Times

    Robert Wright for The New York Times

    John Demsey, left, the global brand president of Estée Lauder. Euan Rellie, right, a banker in New York.

    Robert Wright for The New York Times

    THE UNIFORM Variations on Thom Browne’s buttoned-up look from his spring 2007, left, and fall 2006 collections.


  2. #2

    Default Re: Thom Browne



    i have soft spots for communes, octopi and the cloth making process. so the film sounds amazing. [:P]



    btw. thanks for posting the article.


  3. #3
    kitsch killer Faust's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thom Browne

    Thanks, nqth. I was thinking to post this, but decided against it, since I don't care for the design of it (well, there really isn't much design, just playing with proportions), and it really does look silly most of the time. Props to him for being a success, though.
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    Default Re: Thom Browne



    You are both welcome:-)



    I was thinking NYT was kind of supporting him. BC it is like "what is your style?" - "I show my ankles".



    Changing proportion, like the Japaneses and Belgians have done, was thought to be more than just making2 sizes toobig, but also free movement, ignoring the body, blah blah...



    Anyway it is nice that he has most clientsamong bankers:-)


  5. #5

    Default Re: Thom Browne



    I've noticed then when you see a bunch of guys together dressed like this, it looks pretty cool....



    But everytime I see a lone guy dressed a la Browne, I have a hard time not laughing.

    ...I mean the ephemeral, the fugitive, the contingent, the half of art whose other half is the eternal and the immutable.

  6. #6

  7. #7

    Default Re: Thom Browne



    [quote user="Faust"]Thanks, nqth. I was thinking to post this, but decided against it, since I don't care for the design of it (well, there really isn't much design, just playing with proportions), and it really does look silly most of the time. Props to him for being a success, though.
    [/quote]



    It's all relative, of course. Some people look at the way the people at Atelier dress and say they look silly. If we value individuality, then it's nice that Browne goes against the grain and can be a success. If mainstream fashion looked like Ann D and Carol Christian Poell, I have a feeling we would be here online waxing poetic about preppy rep stripes and chinos![;)]


  8. #8
    kitsch killer Faust's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thom Browne

    [quote user="bakla"]

    [quote user="Faust"]Thanks, nqth. I was
    thinking to post this, but decided against it, since I don't care for
    the design of it (well, there really isn't much design, just playing
    with proportions), and it really does look silly most of the
    time. Props to him for being a success, though.
    [/quote]



    It's
    all relative, of course. Some people look at the way the people at
    Atelier dress and say they look silly. If we value individuality, then
    it's nice that Browne goes against the grain and can be a success. If
    mainstream fashion looked like Ann D and Carol Christian Poell, I have
    a feeling we would be here online waxing poetic about preppy rep
    stripes and chinos![;)]



    [/quote]



    Of course - I am not an absolute deity [:P]



    BTW, Barneys bought it this season as well.

    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

    StyleZeitgeist Magazine

  9. #9

    Default Re: Thom Browne



    Well, it says a lot about the US menswear market that the biggest news in menswear design are Thome browne and Michael Bastian. Which is actually understandable, because it's a thoroughly American style, just upped a notch or two.





    Of course, this is the reason I'm shopping abroad! [8-|]


  10. #10

    Default Re: Thom Browne



    I really try to not comment on things that I don't like or be negative but I do anyways...this is all my opinion, but personally I think Thom Browne is TERRIBLE. First of all, most of what is written in the article, things he has achieved, paris, harry, etc, doesnt mean anything. The design itself can still be terrible. Britney Spears is a terrible singer but she sells alot of albums. Most of the people who have been in fashion for a whileare SO out of touch with what's good now. The thing is, like someone up there said, where is he going to go with all of this? Menswear is alot easier to design than womenswear, espescially if you only do suits! How easy is that? And why is this innovative? What...?A designer shortens the pants and says, "Im sticken it to the man!" Give me a break! That's not innovative.Do a collection with more thanone idea.His whole collection is based on shorts and short pants! He's awful!If someone makes crappy art or design there is always someone there that will say it's innovative. But trueartists and great designers do things because of a hugeunderstanding and something with substance.I see alot of people talking about Carol Christian Poell and someone mentioned Rick Owens. Cmon! Compared to these two guys Thom Browne is a wannabe. A Fake, like Britney Spears.


  11. #11

    Default Re: Thom Browne



    Wow....... I know many people bust his chops but you gotta give it to him. He really has helped the boring mens suit business. I design mens and womens and there really has been a resurgence in interest for suits and I benefit from that. I think Thoms proportions are too extreme, but after years of wearing my pants way too long and snubbing english style shorter inseams, I must say I find I like a slightly shorter pant with a nice substantial classic shoe or boot. I actually really prefer the CDG way back in the 80's with the longer jacket, shorter inseam and nice shoe or boot( there is a great photo of that look in A History Of Menswear).Also I must add it is harder imo to do menswear and suits especially because we only have pant, jacket, coat, vest. The goal is to reach an audience and just maybe pay our rent with our interpretations. And I do mean interpret cause the components have not changed for hundreds of years. Women of course have more options. I think what makes CCP , RO, and many of the designers featured on this sight so exciting is that they come up with new and not so new ways to interpret the basics we are stuck with and they do it beautifully. Do you like Raf at Jil Sander? I do as equally as I like CCP.These guys make us think. Now I cant say that for Armani ( anymore I must add).I swear I thought his little suit odd at first but when you see real people in them, not as extreme as his own, it looks pretty darn suave and cool.



    [quote user="Tafkap"]



    I really try to not comment on things that I don't like or be negative but I do anyways...this is all my opinion, but personally I think Thom Browne is TERRIBLE. First of all, most of what is written in the article, things he has achieved, paris, harry, etc, doesnt mean anything. The design itself can still be terrible. Britney Spears is a terrible singer but she sells alot of albums. Most of the people who have been in fashion for a whileare SO out of touch with what's good now. The thing is, like someone up there said, where is he going to go with all of this? Menswear is alot easier to design than womenswear, espescially if you only do suits! How easy is that? And why is this innovative? What...?A designer shortens the pants and says, "Im sticken it to the man!" Give me a break! That's not innovative.Do a collection with more thanone idea.His whole collection is based on shorts and short pants! He's awful!If someone makes crappy art or design there is always someone there that will say it's innovative. But trueartists and great designers do things because of a hugeunderstanding and something with substance.I see alot of people talking about Carol Christian Poell and someone mentioned Rick Owens. Cmon! Compared to these two guys Thom Browne is a wannabe. A Fake, like Britney Spears.

    [/quote]

  12. #12
    kitsch killer Faust's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thom Browne

    [quote user="clay"]

    Wow....... I know many people bust his chops but you gotta give it to him. He really has helped the boring mens suit business. I design mens and womens and there really has been a resurgence in interest for suits and I benefit from that. I think Thoms proportions are too extreme, but after years of wearing my pants way too long and snubbing english style shorter inseams, I must say I find I like a slightly shorter pant with a nice substantial classic shoe or boot. I actually really prefer the CDG way back in the 80's with the longer jacket, shorter inseam and nice shoe or boot( there is a great photo of that look in A History Of Menswear).Also I must add it is harder imo to do menswear and suits especially because we only have pant, jacket, coat, vest. The goal is to reach an audience and just maybe pay our rent with our interpretations. And I do mean interpret cause the components have not changed for hundreds of years. Women of course have more options. I think what makes CCP , RO, and many of the designers featured on this sight so exciting is that they come up with new and not so new ways to interpret the basics we are stuck with and they do it beautifully. Do you like Raf at Jil Sander? I do as equally as I like CCP.These guys make us think. Now I cant say that for Armani ( anymore I must add).I swear I thought his little suit odd at first but when you see real people in them, not as extreme as his own, it looks pretty darn suave and cool.



    [quote user="Tafkap"]



    I really try to not comment on things that I don't like or be negative but I do anyways...this is all my opinion, but personally I think Thom Browne is TERRIBLE. First of all, most of what is written in the article, things he has achieved, paris, harry, etc, doesnt mean anything. The design itself can still be terrible. Britney Spears is a terrible singer but she sells alot of albums. Most of the people who have been in fashion for a whileare SO out of touch with what's good now. The thing is, like someone up there said, where is he going to go with all of this? Menswear is alot easier to design than womenswear, espescially if you only do suits! How easy is that? And why is this innovative? What...?A designer shortens the pants and says, "Im sticken it to the man!" Give me a break! That's not innovative.Do a collection with more thanone idea.His whole collection is based on shorts and short pants! He's awful!If someone makes crappy art or design there is always someone there that will say it's innovative. But trueartists and great designers do things because of a hugeunderstanding and something with substance.I see alot of people talking about Carol Christian Poell and someone mentioned Rick Owens. Cmon! Compared to these two guys Thom Browne is a wannabe. A Fake, like Britney Spears.



    [/quote][/quote]



    I am kind of in between these two opinions, lol. I don't think he's a fake, there is definitely something genuine about going out on a limb like that. Well, not really on a limb, because I am sure he has had excellent connections in fashion, retail, PR, etc., but still - that does not mean that people will blindly buy what's on offer. On the other hand, I do think that his work is not creative enough to instill respect (for me personally) that I give to real innovators. It's kind of a one-trick pony thing with very limited opportunities. That is why I wondered aloud about what will happen when the fad for this silhouette will go away? Will he just become a quality suit maker based in the US, or will there always be a nice for this type of a thing, or will he be creative enough to propell this in some other direction?



    There is one VERY important thing missing from the article. How is he doing in the Asian markets? It seems to be definitely the type of thing that would do well there. I think if gets discovered in Japan, for example, it will be a huge next step.

    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

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  13. #13

    Default Re: Thom Browne



    clay--Wow....... I know many people bust his chops but you gotta give it to him. He really has helped the boring mens suit business. I design mens and womens and there really has been a resurgence in interest for suits and I benefit from that. I think Thoms proportions are too extreme, but after years of wearing my pants way too long and snubbing english style shorter inseams, I must say I find I like a slightly shorter pant with a nice substantial classic shoe or boot. I actually really prefer the CDG way back in the 80's with the longer jacket, shorter inseam and nice shoe or boot( there is a great photo of that look in A History Of Menswear).Also I must add it is harder imo to do menswear and suits especially because we only have pant, jacket, coat, vest. The goal is to reach an audience and just maybe pay our rent with our interpretations. And I do mean interpret cause the components have not changed for hundreds of years. Women of course have more options. I think what makes CCP , RO, and many of the designers featured on this sight so exciting is that they come up with new and not so new ways to interpret the basics we are stuck with and they do it beautifully. Do you like Raf at Jil Sander? I do as equally as I like CCP.These guys make us think. Now I cant say that for Armani ( anymore I must add).I swear I thought his little suit odd at first but when you see real people in them, not as extreme as his own, it looks pretty darn suave and cool.





    Well, In my opinion, WE do have a harder time desining for women. I also design for men and women, and most of the people I work with agree. Gaultier did skirt pants, Margiela did dresses for men...it's not about making the vest, pant, and shirt and saying we ONLY have these....when you say you are doing fashion to make money, it is about following trends. If you are doing it to "pay the bills". The thing is Armani makes a suit that is CUT perfect. It's not aboutchanging things and bringing a spark back. Most designers will tell you the top three things that men and women want. 1. Look 2. Feel 3. Cut.... And Armani makes the most amazing looking, feeling and fitting suits. As far as Thom Browne, they look stupid, they may feel okay, and they are cut like everyone says, Pee-Wee hermanish. If anyone says that they don't look Dorky they arefibbing to themselves!Right now and pretty much always, Armani has made the best and most influential man's suit, period. Raf and Jil or both good. I don't wear suits much. I enjoy making womenswear because in my opinion menswear IS EASY! lol. I like the challenge. It is easy because when it boils down to it, the clothes have to be wearable, no matter who much of an artist you want to be. Then there has to be someone who wants to wear it. And the minute anyone on this forum can post a picture of them wearing a Thom Browne suit, believe me, I will find another job. I prefer old CDG too, but not Thom Browne. The point is, everyone is talking about his suits being short and NOTHING ELSE. Weak.


  14. #14
    kitsch killer Faust's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thom Browne

    Hmm, well, his fabrics are top notch as well. But the prices are outrageous...
    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

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  15. #15

    Default Re: Thom Browne

    [quote user="Tafkap"]

    clay--Wow....... I know many people bust his chops but you gotta give it to him. He really has helped the boring mens suit business. I design mens and womens and there really has been a resurgence in interest for suits and I benefit from that. I think Thoms proportions are too extreme, but after years of wearing my pants way too long and snubbing english style shorter inseams, I must say I find I like a slightly shorter pant with a nice substantial classic shoe or boot. I actually really prefer the CDG way back in the 80's with the longer jacket, shorter inseam and nice shoe or boot( there is a great photo of that look in A History Of Menswear).Also I must add it is harder imo to do menswear and suits especially because we only have pant, jacket, coat, vest. The goal is to reach an audience and just maybe pay our rent with our interpretations. And I do mean interpret cause the components have not changed for hundreds of years. Women of course have more options. I think what makes CCP , RO, and many of the designers featured on this sight so exciting is that they come up with new and not so new ways to interpret the basics we are stuck with and they do it beautifully. Do you like Raf at Jil Sander? I do as equally as I like CCP.These guys make us think. Now I cant say that for Armani ( anymore I must add).I swear I thought his little suit odd at first but when you see real people in them, not as extreme as his own, it looks pretty darn suave and cool.





    Well, In my opinion, WE do have a harder time desining for women. I also design for men and women, and most of the people I work with agree. Gaultier did skirt pants, Margiela did dresses for men...it's not about making the vest, pant, and shirt and saying we ONLY have these....when you say you are doing fashion to make money, it is about following trends. If you are doing it to "pay the bills". The thing is Armani makes a suit that is CUT perfect. It's not aboutchanging things and bringing a spark back. Most designers will tell you the top three things that men and women want. 1. Look 2. Feel 3. Cut.... And Armani makes the most amazing looking, feeling and fitting suits. As far as Thom Browne, they look stupid, they may feel okay, and they are cut like everyone says, Pee-Wee hermanish. If anyone says that they don't look Dorky they arefibbing to themselves!Right now and pretty much always, Armani has made the best and most influential man's suit, period. Raf and Jil or both good. I don't wear suits much. I enjoy making womenswear because in my opinion menswear IS EASY! lol. I like the challenge. It is easy because when it boils down to it, the clothes have to be wearable, no matter who much of an artist you want to be. Then there has to be someone who wants to wear it. And the minute anyone on this forum can post a picture of them wearing a Thom Browne suit, believe me, I will find another job. I prefer old CDG too, but not Thom Browne. The point is, everyone is talking about his suits being short and NOTHING ELSE. Weak.



    [/quote]



    OK Tak, I really do see your side and I must say you made some excellent points! But cut goes to fit and feel also, and truthfully Ive never worn one. You are right an Armani suit feels and looks great I am just not moved as I was in the past for his stuff, but hoping to be. I really did enjoy your comments and totally respect your and Faust's opinions( as Faust knows and I hope you do also).




    Cheers!



    P.S. I almost died laughing when you said you will " find another job".


  16. #16

    Default Re: Thom Browne

    Those outfits in the pictures that Faust posted look utterly ridiculous! I like some aspects of his clohtes - his shirts in particular are very nice - but those suits just look too small, nothing else to them.Daft really.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Thom Browne



    [quote user="Tafkap"]I enjoy making womenswear because in my opinion menswear IS EASY! lol. I like the challenge. It is easy because when it boils down to it, the clothes have to be wearable, no matter who much of an artist you want to be. Then there has to be someone who wants to wear it. And the minute anyone on this forum can post a picture of them wearing a Thom Browne suit, believe me, I will find another job. I prefer old CDG too, but not Thom Browne. The point is, everyone is talking about his suits being short and NOTHING ELSE. Weak.
    [/quote]



    menswear is easy? then why do we have such a difficult finding clothes that we (there was a discussion on this board devoted to this rant) like?


  18. #18

    Default Re: Thom Browne

    [quote user="Tafkap"]

    clay--Wow....... I know many people bust his chops but you gotta give it to him. He really has helped the boring mens suit business. I design mens and womens and there really has been a resurgence in interest for suits and I benefit from that. I think Thoms proportions are too extreme, but after years of wearing my pants way too long and snubbing english style shorter inseams, I must say I find I like a slightly shorter pant with a nice substantial classic shoe or boot. I actually really prefer the CDG way back in the 80's with the longer jacket, shorter inseam and nice shoe or boot( there is a great photo of that look in A History Of Menswear).Also I must add it is harder imo to do menswear and suits especially because we only have pant, jacket, coat, vest. The goal is to reach an audience and just maybe pay our rent with our interpretations. And I do mean interpret cause the components have not changed for hundreds of years. Women of course have more options. I think what makes CCP , RO, and many of the designers featured on this sight so exciting is that they come up with new and not so new ways to interpret the basics we are stuck with and they do it beautifully. Do you like Raf at Jil Sander? I do as equally as I like CCP.These guys make us think. Now I cant say that for Armani ( anymore I must add).I swear I thought his little suit odd at first but when you see real people in them, not as extreme as his own, it looks pretty darn suave and cool.





    Well, In my opinion, WE do have a harder time desining for women. I also design for men and women, and most of the people I work with agree. Gaultier did skirt pants, Margiela did dresses for men...it's not about making the vest, pant, and shirt and saying we ONLY have these....when you say you are doing fashion to make money, it is about following trends. If you are doing it to "pay the bills". The thing is Armani makes a suit that is CUT perfect. It's not aboutchanging things and bringing a spark back. Most designers will tell you the top three things that men and women want. 1. Look 2. Feel 3. Cut.... And Armani makes the most amazing looking, feeling and fitting suits. As far as Thom Browne, they look stupid, they may feel okay, and they are cut like everyone says, Pee-Wee hermanish. If anyone says that they don't look Dorky they arefibbing to themselves!Right now and pretty much always, Armani has made the best and most influential man's suit, period. Raf and Jil or both good. I don't wear suits much. I enjoy making womenswear because in my opinion menswear IS EASY! lol. I like the challenge. It is easy because when it boils down to it, the clothes have to be wearable, no matter who much of an artist you want to be. Then there has to be someone who wants to wear it. And the minute anyone on this forum can post a picture of them wearing a Thom Browne suit, believe me, I will find another job. I prefer old CDG too, but not Thom Browne. The point is, everyone is talking about his suits being short and NOTHING ELSE. Weak.



    [/quote]



    I should invite getsmart from styleforum. He's a japanese graphic designer (if I remember correctly) who's into the whole skinhead and rockabilly culture and owns a Tom Browne suit. He looks smashing in it and really don't get overwhelmed by the suit as it integrates perfectly with his own style, with the right part of 60s references and personal interpretation. It's easy to see Browne's shtick as shortening the pants but they don't even come that way when you got the suit. Browne's concept is to make a 60s style suit (thin lapels, often 2 buttons with long gorge-although Jason's suit is a 2 1/2 high gorge one, slim and tubular fit, patterned wool with a large place given to greys and brown, working buttonholes,shorter skirt, yes no break on trousers fits well with that ensemble but that doesn't mean you have to wear capris like Browne himself,etc.). I don't think that's the most original and innovative concept around but it's well executed and offers an interesting option when looking for a suit.

    Selling CCP, Harnden, Raf, Rick etc.
    http://www.stylezeitgeist.com/forums...me-other-stuff

  19. #19

    Default Re: Thom Browne

    [quote user="clay"]

    Wow....... I know many people bust his chops but you gotta give it to him. He really has helped the boring mens suit business. I design mens and womens and there really has been a resurgence in interest for suits and I benefit from that. I think Thoms proportions are too extreme, but after years of wearing my pants way too long and snubbing english style shorter inseams, I must say I find I like a slightly shorter pant with a nice substantial classic shoe or boot. I actually really prefer the CDG way back in the 80's with the longer jacket, shorter inseam and nice shoe or boot( there is a great photo of that look in A History Of Menswear).Also I must add it is harder imo to do menswear and suits especially because we only have pant, jacket, coat, vest. The goal is to reach an audience and just maybe pay our rent with our interpretations. And I do mean interpret cause the components have not changed for hundreds of years. Women of course have more options. I think what makes CCP , RO, and many of the designers featured on this sight so exciting is that they come up with new and not so new ways to interpret the basics we are stuck with and they do it beautifully. Do you like Raf at Jil Sander? I do as equally as I like CCP.These guys make us think. Now I cant say that for Armani ( anymore I must add).I swear I thought his little suit odd at first but when you see real people in them, not as extreme as his own, it looks pretty darn suave and cool.[/quote]



    Men's suitings done well has never been boring. If, however, you are taking cues from the conventions of the middle-market Protestant mentality of the average American male, then certainly shapeless suits, cheap shoes and unattractive ties are indicative of an overall dullness.



    Yet, classical clothes has always had its avatars of style--from the highly fitted military tailors of Britain's Savile Row to the elegant simplicity of Naples. A well done boutonniere always elevates a good suit as does a fine hat.




    Inasmuch as Browne is concerned, people may herald his "avant-garde" take on men's sartorialism, but in all likelihood, his influence is not going to be felt in mass-markets where stilted conformity reigns.


  20. #20
    kitsch killer Faust's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thom Browne

    /\ Amen. Actually, I don't think it will last in any circles.
    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

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