Thom Browne

[Seventh]

Re: Thom Browne

[quote user="laika"][quote user="Seventh"]

I have been away for
while (out west and away from computers), so I am just starting to catch up
with the discussions going on, so forgive me if this has been raised before...

It is an interesting
discussion, and it definitely seems like it raises some strong opinions. What I
am most interested by Thom Browne, is the cultural aesthetic that he is after.
I'll admit that I am not a fan, but it seems to go further than that.

The video that Laika
posted really bothered me and I took me a while to figure out why. I think it
was, overproduced, immaculate/pretentious, mildly culturally racist
(all white cast), engaged in a shorthand symbolic references to
"authentic" spiritual experiences (the baptism, wtf?) , safe and homogenous
(it only looks good on thin, boring-looking, young men), and trying to present
a look and feeling of false naivety and innocence. I know that is a lot to say
for a silly fashion video... :)

But I am sick of perfectly
coiffed, white, pretty and empty men, trying to look like serious innocent
men/children from an imagined (far more nobler) past, and clothing that encourages
this mentality. Do other people on the SZ have an opinion on how clothing fits
the zeitgeist of the contemporary times (no pun intended)? For me, I am
bothered that so much youth culture and design seems to be interested in the
fantasy of innocence and naivety, especially at this contemporary moment (a war
in Iraq, huge political corruption, split between rich and poor is getting more
extreme). Shouldn't clothing have an active language, what I loved about CDG
(back in the day) was that it seemed active--that deconstruction was so much
part of our experience and life in the 90s. Browne's work seems an escape from
an realities into a dream world that only certain people are permitted to
self-select into.

[/quote]

I think you and Faust might be missing the point here; or perhaps just overly conflating Anthony's vision with Thom's. Goicolea's work is supposed be disturbing--to show the dark, menacing underbelly of adolescence and of dreams. The "fantasy of innocence and naivety" that you refer to is constantly being undermined by intimations of violence--the sheep shearing, the dead octopus, the boy being nailed into a coffin by his peers. The uniformity of the boys, I think, just contributes to this mood of looming danger; and also underscores the dark homoeroticism that is always part of Goicolea's aesthetic. TB's clothes--which are simultaneously fascistic and androgynous, cruel and adolescent--work perfectly in this narrative. There is no innocence, that is the whole point.

Now, how exactly is this pretentious, please? [^o)]

I am really interested in the last part of your post, re: clothes and zeitgeist--will think about that and respond later on.

(And, welcome back, you were very sorely missed![51] )

[/quote]

Hi Laika! [51]

Thanks for clueing me in on Goicolea--I took a look at his website. But I stand by my reaction to video (and to his work in general); it is overproduced, immaculate/pretentious, etc. And if it is meant to evoke in me some dark looming danger built out of a self-reflexive irony, it is doing a terrible job because the whole film is built on tropes and heavy handed symbols (the restrained sheep, the octopus, the baptism), with the expectation that we, as culturally astute viewers ([|-)]) are supposed to read more into than what is actually there...(and this is deeply pretentious). I couldn't give a damn about the boys, I don't identify, empathize, feel any relevance to, or wish for their salvation--their only function is to look pretty and sorta wistful. And it is all about innocence, perhaps lost innocence, but nevertheless a fantasy designed to be appealing and nostalgic.

Anyway... I'm in a punchy mood.

Yeah--please respond to the clothes and zeitgeist part! I feel like Raf might be on to something in his Spring collection (but I need to spend more time looking at the pictures).

[kronik]

Re: Thom Browne



While it is of no surprise that many of this board's membership are anti-TB ( ;) ), I can appreciate what he's doing. His aesthetic, and the one employed by many of those that wear his garments, is not my own. It is, however, playful to a degree and most likely, to the extent that most that can afford his clothing can be. His garments are well-made, the materials are top notch, and he works in a medium which rarely sees any sort of play on proportion or attempt at "delving deeper." I am of the school of thought that a well-cut suit looks better than most anything on a man. Do I think his prices are justified? Absolutely not. Then again, I don't think CCP, Carpe Diem, LUC, etc. should command the retails that they do either. I'm a cheap ass. These are all luxury brands with completely different markets. They, for the most part, all appeal to someone, somewhere.

In regards to his presentation, while it's contrived, I don't view it any differently than anti-marketing. Man-boy/dystopia/etc... whatever, it's all "art" right? They're all forms of marketing and that's how they should be viewed. Referring to his "revolution," I strongly doubt that. Sure, he's brought attention to menswear that isn't lavished by "the stodgy, old guys" but so have Spencer Hart, Band of Outsiders, Bastian, Hamilton, etc. that have all been mentioned previously in this thread. I'm sure in another 5 years, there will be a guy using ridiculous shoulder padding which will have shone a new light on "old folks' suits."

[Faust]

Re: Thom Browne

[quote user="laika"][quote user="Seventh"]

I have been away for
while (out west and away from computers), so I am just starting to catch up
with the discussions going on, so forgive me if this has been raised before...

It is an interesting
discussion, and it definitely seems like it raises some strong opinions. What I
am most interested by Thom Browne, is the cultural aesthetic that he is after.
I'll admit that I am not a fan, but it seems to go further than that.

The video that Laika
posted really bothered me and I took me a while to figure out why. I think it
was, overproduced, immaculate/pretentious, mildly culturally racist
(all white cast), engaged in a shorthand symbolic references to
"authentic" spiritual experiences (the baptism, wtf?) , safe and homogenous
(it only looks good on thin, boring-looking, young men), and trying to present
a look and feeling of false naivety and innocence. I know that is a lot to say
for a silly fashion video... :)

But I am sick of perfectly
coiffed, white, pretty and empty men, trying to look like serious innocent
men/children from an imagined (far more nobler) past, and clothing that encourages
this mentality. Do other people on the SZ have an opinion on how clothing fits
the zeitgeist of the contemporary times (no pun intended)? For me, I am
bothered that so much youth culture and design seems to be interested in the
fantasy of innocence and naivety, especially at this contemporary moment (a war
in Iraq, huge political corruption, split between rich and poor is getting more
extreme). Shouldn't clothing have an active language, what I loved about CDG
(back in the day) was that it seemed active--that deconstruction was so much
part of our experience and life in the 90s. Browne's work seems an escape from
an realities into a dream world that only certain people are permitted to
self-select into.

[/quote]

I think you and Faust might be missing the point here; or perhaps just overly conflating Anthony's vision with Thom's. Goicolea's work is supposed be disturbing--to show the dark, menacing underbelly of adolescence and of dreams. The "fantasy of innocence and naivety" that you refer to is constantly being undermined by intimations of violence--the sheep shearing, the dead octopus, the boy being nailed into a coffin by his peers. The uniformity of the boys, I think, just contributes to this mood of looming danger; and also underscores the dark homoeroticism that is always part of Goicolea's aesthetic. TB's clothes--which are simultaneously fascistic and androgynous, cruel and adolescent--work perfectly in this narrative. There is no innocence, that is the whole point.

Now, how exactly is this pretentious, please? [^o)]

I am really interested in the last part of your post, re: clothes and zeitgeist--will think about that and respond later on.

(And, welcome back, you were very sorely missed![51] )

[/quote]

Dang, if you put it that way :-) Laika, you should consider art criticism.[Y] However, the clothes support and underscore that mood, as you point out - and I don't want any part of it.

BTW, THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR THIS DISCUSSION - THIS IS SZ AT ITS BEST.

[Faust]

Re: Thom Browne



[quote user="Casius"]Thom's clothing, itself, isn't a trend, it's the way it's worn that is the trend (if that makes sense). Thom's clothing without the raised hemlines is just another well made, business casual clothing line. But with the arte povera lines, it is very much an aesthetic more so than a trend. But this may be a whole other topic in itself; What we all consider a trend?[/quote]

Kinda true, but not entirely true. Some pieces are very cool, and can't be called business casual... it's more like WASP casual, something you'll see during the ski season in Colorado, or in the summer at the Hamptons (or whereever the fuck they play). And it really is exquisitely made - I hand it to him. Then again, it's insanely priced... and I don't hear too many complaints voiced on these boards about that (as opposed to Carol's pricing, for example).

[Servo2000]

Re: Thom Browne

[quote user="Faust"]

[quote user="Casius"]Thom's clothing, itself, isn't a trend, it's the way it's worn that is the trend (if that makes sense). Thom's clothing without the raised hemlines is just another well made, business casual clothing line. But with the arte povera lines, it is very much an aesthetic more so than a trend. But this may be a whole other topic in itself; What we all consider a trend?[/quote]

Kinda true, but not entirely true. Some pieces are very cool, and can't be called business casual... it's more like WASP casual, something you'll see during the ski season in Colorado, or in the summer at the Hamptons (or whereever the fuck they play). And it really is exquisitely made - I hand it to him. Then again, it's insanely priced... and I don't hear too many complaints voiced on these boards about that (as opposed to Carol's pricing, for example).

[/quote]

I feel that we may have glossed over the pricing issue just because it seems like it's something that we've discussed quite a bit, and at this point it seems like everyone has more-or-less formed their own decisions in relation to exorbitant prices. There's always room for more discussion, but I think that's about all there is to it: his pricing is outrageous, and I imagine is mostly a means to keep up the impression that his work is, as I see this phrase being tossed around quite a bit about his work, "like couture for men."

[DHC]

Re: Thom Browne



Old news, but I just saw the collection he did for Harry Winston. Didn't see any photos up in the forum so up they go for the interested members.

[Casius]

Re: Thom Browne



I do like both of those rings, especially the 3 stripe one with diamonds. The stuff is just outrageously expensive though.

That watch is crazy too but way to extravagant for me.

[laika]

Re: Thom Browne

Video of Thom talking about his upcoming collection here. I can't say he's the most fascinating fellow to listen to, but I always enjoy seeing the TB look worn full out. [79]

[philip nod]

Re: Thom Browne

anybody know when his show is?

[Nixus]

Re: Thom Browne



^

The video said in thirteen days, I guess that means from today.

So, Feb 4th I guess.

[philip nod]

Re: Thom Browne



there's a video of the entire s/s 08 runway show on thom's website.

and i just reviewed some of the last entries, and re: thom's real name, i'm almost positive that's his name but will look into it.

http://www.thombrowne.com/SS08%20Show.html

[matthewhk]

Re: Thom Browne

After seeing that video on Refinery, it was the first time i have heard and seen Thom in motion...I was expecting a little more gravitas from the man, but looking at it the other way it's cool to see he looks comfortable in his style and down to earth.

[aahhbes]

Re: Thom Browne



i've never been a huge Thom Browne fan but i ran across this video and found it quite interesting.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3tIfbqaytx0

[Faust]

Re: Thom Browne

[quote user="philip nod"]

there's a video of the entire s/s 08 runway show on thom's website.

and i just reviewed some of the last entries, and re: thom's real name, i'm almost positive that's his name but will look into it.

http://www.thombrowne.com/SS08%20Show.html

[/quote]

Pretty sure it's not.

[philip nod]

Re: Thom Browne



f, what is your evidence for this? wouldn't it be all over everything since everybodys out to get him anyway? my friend said that he's pretty sure that's his family as he recalls seeing other members of his family w the same name on documents name and maybe his name was thomas and he shortened it. but of course, its still a mystery because he wasn't totally positive.