WTF

[interest1]

Exactly, F. Because there is nothing wrong with that. My point is that we will always have someone in every discussion who, rather than concede to a great idea, will end up claiming that its greatness is nullified because the idea was born out of the goal of profit, thus lacking genuine-ness. If it isn't apparent by now, I'm on your side of the fence here.

[interest1]

And bukka, your Benetton example was perfect. I remember those ads like they were yesterday.

[Fuuma]

I'm not an expert in advertising (at all) but it seems to me there's quite a few examples, like Benetton's campaign with an anorexic model (which raises awareness abt anorexia AND the brand equity) or Coca-cola choosing afro-american models circa 1970. But, of course, with such a subjective criterium like "greatness", you might not agree at all.

You might have noticed that it appears to be easier to transcend the context with image/video/graphic design than text.

ps: are you talking about the Oliviero Toscani anorexia campaign? He's the 80s-90s Benetton photographer but this was done much later and is not linked to Benetton.

The Zizek/Abercrombie thing might be a contender:

[bukka]

You might have noticed that it appears to be easier to transcend the context with image/video/graphic design than text.

ps: are you talking about the Oliviero Toscani anorexia campaign? He's the 80s-90s Benetton photographer but this was done much later and is not linked to Benetton.

It's not linked? Really? I'm almost sure that I saw this girl in a Benetton Campaign. Mea culpa if that wasn't the case. Anyway, there are other campaigns by Benetton like the "Unhate" one that were "great" imho.

I agree with your point about image/text, but it came at the end of your precedent post, you were still talking about any kind of advertising when you said that you couldn't pinpoint anything great - that's why I replied with example of "great" graphic campaigns

Fun fact it's that I just finished reading Cesar Birotteau's Balzac today, narrating the birth of mass production and, at the same time, advertising. There are some great examples of advertising texts. Anyway, as I said, I don't know much about all this

Edit: that's a cool one hehe

[Fuuma]

It's not linked? Really? I'm almost sure that I saw this girl in a Benetton Campaign. Mea culpa if that wasn't the case. Anyway, there are other campaigns by Benetton like the "Unhate" one that were "great" imho.

I agree with your point about image/text, but it came at the end of your precedent post, you were still talking about any kind of advertising when you said that you couldn't pinpoint anything great - that's why I replied with example of "great" graphic campaigns

Fun fact it's that I just finished reading Cesar Birotteau's Balzac today, narrating the birth of mass production and, at the same time, advertising. There are some great examples of advertising texts. Anyway, as I said, I don't know much about all this

Edit: that's a cool one hehe

What's interesting is that he's in the same vein as some of his essays where he discusses a tv spot where a girl turns into a bottle of beer after a kiss versus the fairytale of a frog turning into a prince (think of the inadequacy of the resulting pairings and what they mean). You can say he's whack or dumb or that it is facile but not that he switches register depending on low-mid/mass-high culture or even the medium he uses (books, online essays, conferences, advertising).

In other words and coming back to the topic at hand; Zizek discusses ads (the ultimate in mass culture) on the same level as high (say the arts) or low (say folktales) culture and even goes the distance in discussing topics in the same manner when he switches from a book/essay/academic medium to an advertising medium.

[mrbeuys]

If it isn't apparent by now, I'm on your side of the fence here.

Sorry M. You misread. I didn't insinuate that was your opinion.

[bukka]

In other words and coming back to the topic at hand; Zizek discusses ads (the ultimate in mass culture) on the same level as high (say the arts) or low (say folktales) culture and even goes the distance in discussing topics in the same manner when he switches from a book/essay/academic medium to an advertising medium.

Well, then, there is your example of a great ad: zizek's meta ads.

[interest1]

Fumma – might you have that bike/horse sentiment in an animated gif, perhaps? We'd all prefer a visual.

. . . There are some great examples of advertising texts . . .

This reminds me of an old Stuart Weitzman shoe ad that I tore out of Vogue and glued into
my tattered fashion scrapbook about 20 years ago:

"IF YOU MUST STEP ON SOMEONE TO GET AHEAD, MAKE SURE YOU WEAR A SHARP HEEL"

It was funny, sarcastic, and most important, memorable. The product in the ad was actually just an ink drawing of a woman's shoe – proving that the text, alone, was enough to carry the campaign. 'Greatness' has many definitions.

Sorry M. You misread. I didn't insinuate that was your opinion.

I kinda figured that, but wanted to be sure. My comments sometimes can be open to interpretations outside of their intention.

[Dorje]

I couldn't even begin to see what's wrong with that.

I agree...

People's relationship with money and how to make it is rarely constructive or positive.

You may make the greatest product in the world, and many people would love to buy it, but if nobody knows about it how does that help anyone?

[interest1]

Can we go back to making fun of Kanye now?

Here, I'll start:

That pink Polo he wore in his 2004 video "All Falls Down" – where he gets squirted with yellow mustard while chasing some girl through an airport – has been recreated by a company selling a used Ralph Lauren polo shirt with the mustard smear embroidered on in lieu of the actual condiment.

Yes, you heard me. Embroidered mustard.

But there's only one and it's unauthorized,
so let's see if someone nabs it before those cease and desist letters start rolling in.

website HERE

[apathy!]

Exactly. One person's idea of greatness is another's eye roll. Doesn't help that we're all jaded as fuck, either. And even in the rare event that consensus actually settles on a specific example, you'll still have someone crying foul because "the endgame is profit".

I suppose we just have different views of "greatness" and it is a waste of time to argue about the meaning of words.

I absolutely think that any kind of artistic creation is tarnished by a motivation of greed(especially if it is insidious and manipulative).


I'm not sure why you said this in such a dismissing way.


the artfulness in advertising is a texture. Nothing of substance.

[stagename]

I suppose we just have different views of "greatness" and it is a waste of time to argue about the meaning of words.

I absolutely think that any kind of artistic creation is tarnished by a motivation of greed(especially if it is insidious and manipulative).


I'm not sure why you said this in such a dismissing way.


the artfulness in advertising is a texture. Nothing of substance.

I'm not sure if your points emerge from naivety, ignorance or idealism, but I disapprove of about everything that you just said. Why would art for art sake be more artful (or, if I read the underlying assumption of your position correctly, authentic) than art with a motive, wahtehver that motive is. Fact of the matter is a lot of artistic movements sprung from/were combined with protests/claims/demands. I also thing you're misreading profit for greed. I can think of a number of profitable companeis that are not greedy, I don't see why we need to conflate these terms. But since we can't argue about the meanings of words anymore ...

[Faust]

I suppose we just have different views of "greatness" and it is a waste of time to argue about the meaning of words.

I absolutely think that any kind of artistic creation is tarnished by a motivation of greed(especially if it is insidious and manipulative).


I'm not sure why you said this in such a dismissing way.


the artfulness in advertising is a texture. Nothing of substance.

WTF x MC2

[Faust]

I'm not an expert in advertising (at all) but it seems to me there's quite a few examples, like Benetton's campaign with an anorexic model (which raises awareness abt anorexia AND the brand equity) or Coca-cola choosing afro-american models circa 1970. But, of course, with such a subjective criterium like "greatness", you might not agree at all.

NO, NO, NO! Sir, you are committing a cardinal sin of praising a brand that latches onto social causes in order to fling v-neck sweaters?! Get thee to the remedial evil marketing course!

[apathy!]

I'm not sure if your points emerge from naivety, ignorance or idealism, but I disapprove of about everything that you just said.

seems like you're just trying to insult me? lol ok.

Why would art for art sake be more artful (or, if I read the underlying assumption of your position correctly, authentic) than art with a motive, wahtehver that motive is.

I'm not saying art for "art sake". I'm not sure what that means. Do you know what that means?

Fact of the matter is a lot of artistic movements sprung from/were combined with protests/claims/demands.

this seems fairly obvious.



I think you're a little confused. I'm not talking about art without motive being more virtuous. I'm talking about art (if you can even call it that in this context) whose motive is to sell a product being less virtuous.